Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[wedenterprises]

It's not just about people that have "very short attention spans". That's so dismissive.

I stand by what I said. AK is a park that beckons you to explore. Not just passively "look up at trees". It's a park to be savored. I honestly think it's one of the most brilliant theme parks ever built and it's highly underrated.

I'm not just talking about "shanty town" architecture (could you be anymore culturally insensitive?!). It's not just about the storytelling and the theming and the rides, it's the entire package. It's an entirely new foundation for a theme park. It's truly not just a zoo, it's a brand new world for Disney to explore. Like Eddie stated above, there is really so much to explore under the heading of nature, the "A" in "AK" is just the tip of the iceberg for that park.

In a world where electronic gadgets dominate, it's refreshing to see a park that brings us back into nature. If you think it's just a jungle then you are kind of missing the point IMO and maybe it is just a half day park until more MK style rides get thrown in. That's ok too - like I said, there is something for everyone at WDW.

edit: and p.s. you might be surprised actually at how many people DO in fact go to WDW to look at plants and trees and, *gasp*, not go on a single ride.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I stand by what I said. AK is a park that beckons you to explore. Not just passively "look up at trees". It's a park to be savored. I honestly think it's one of the most brilliant theme parks ever built and it's highly underrated.

I'm not just talking about "shanty town" architecture (could you be anymore culturally insensitive?!). It's not just about the storytelling and the theming and the rides, it's the entire package. It's an entirely new foundation for a theme park. It's truly not just a zoo, it's a brand new world for Disney to explore. Like Eddie stated above, there is really so much to explore under the heading of nature, the "A" in "AK" is just the tip of the iceberg for that park.

In a world where electronic gadgets dominate, it's refreshing to see a park that brings us back into nature. If you think it's just a jungle then you are kind of missing the point IMO and maybe it is just a half day park until more MK style rides get thrown in. That's ok too - like I said, there is something for everyone at WDW.

edit: and p.s. you might be surprised actually at how many people DO in fact go to WDW to look at plants and trees and, *gasp*, not go on a single ride.

Attention spans are an issue, especially if you cannot capture it at the outset. There is so much to see at WDW, there is a subtle anxiety to move on constantly as there may be something better ahead. This is true of walk thru attractions. You know going in that you can't see it all so you edit in real time. "Got it, next". The way to reverse this is to set up an expectation that dispels this anxiety and allows the guest to linger and chill out. Not easy but it can be done and AK does that if you go there for this kind of experience. Museums have a dual level experience, the 20 minute, see the high points (run to the "Mona Lisa", past the "Winged Victory" to say you saw it), or the audio tour "deeper drilling" one that is more comprehensive. Parks are like that too, raising the half day or full day park discussion.

By and large, it is generally true that rides will always preferred over film based attractions (based on sustained popularity) and as they are the most experiential. AK by design is an alternative to some of that and thereby has it's own allure, albeit a bit more passive. There are also people that are urban and do not have any interest in nature or animals. It's just a fact. AK is a flavor of ice cream and either you want it or you don't. My grandmother loved "people watching" from a bench. I thought she was insane, as being 12 this was unbelievable as there were Pirates and adventure waiting to be explored. Her's was seeing the diversity of the guests themselves and maybe a Pirate later. You age into that. Not everyone is the audience for the slower, more "lean in" experiences, and in competition with the more hyper "get it all in" buffet energy that is property wide, it's hard for a fern with a plaque or a sleeping lion to compete with that. So many guests may blow it off in favor of a sure thing like "Dinosaur" where the action is paced and predictible.

It's funny how the JC in the MK is still a very popular attraction with families, as to them it's a funny fake zoo ride for small kids. They know the kids don't know the animals are fake, but it's fast paced and fun. AK is real and you get what you get at the expensive of it being "entertaining" at some point.

All I was saying is that the material is there in that park for rich development and making a zoo with more animals and closer proximity can be cool, but why stop there?

 

[George]

All I was saying is that the material is there in that park for rich development and making a zoo with more animals and closer proximity can be cool, but why stop there?

No reason to stop there. In fact, it helps someone like me who likes AK the way it is now. If there were a couple of more things that the rest of my family liked, I could enjoy AK more often.

 

[theguitarman]

To comment on the AK full day/half day/no day conversation...

First off, Magic Kingdom was opened in 1971, and was the only park at WDW. Animal Kingdom opened in 1999. Point being, MK has had quite a head start to evolve into the great park that it is. Also, AK not only has not had as much time, but in the last few years, the theme park industry was hurting, along with the US economy. Just some facts to use when grading the parks.

That being said, I think AK is a great park, especially considering its young age and the timing of its growth! The theming of AK is beyond anything else I have ever seen. Once you walk in that front gate, you are completely immersed in such a neat, visual atmosphere. The separation between areas of the park is unmatched! When you are on an attraction, it feels so separate from everything else in the park. And the rides themselves seem very well blended into their environments! Don't get me wrong, the other parks do GREAT theming, EXCELLENT! But at MK, I still know I am at a theme park. AK takes it one step beyond. (Cue the jokes about: That's because AK isnt a theme park!) I think it still has a lot of growing that it will do, but AK is an awesome park and will only get better with age!

 

[wedenterprises]

Attention spans are an issue, especially if you cannot capture it at the outset. There is so much to see at WDW, there is a subtle anxiety to move on constantly as there may be something better ahead.

The first time I ever visited AK I was so shocked. It was as if I suddenly hit a traffic jam and had to slam my brakes. It's so much different than the rest of WDW.

The Oasis was such a great idea because it really encourages you to slow down and start observing/exploring. It "trains" you for the rest of your day.

There are times when I just want to ride Everest, sure, but AK encourages you to make an investment of your time and curiosity. It doesn't want you to just rush to E:E and leave. I truly think that AK gives you the best return on your "investment" if you are open and willing. I don't get that at any ordinary zoo.

 

[lazyboy97o]

To comment on the AK full day/half day/no day conversation...

First off, Magic Kingdom was opened in 1971, and was the only park at WDW. Animal Kingdom opened in 1999. Point being, MK has had quite a head start to evolve into the great park that it is. Also, AK not only has not had as much time, but in the last few years, the theme park industry was hurting, along with the US economy. Just some facts to use when grading the parks.

Except that opening the park with a limited number of attractions was a deliberate choice. The Magic Kingdom was built by a significantly smaller company than the one that built Disney's Animal Kingdom. The attractions were not limited because the undertaking was risking the entire company, but because it was intended to give guests enough to fill up enough time that people said they were happy when asked by the research team and that they booked another night.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Except that opening the park with a limited number of attractions was a deliberate choice. The Magic Kingdom was built by a significantly smaller company than the one that built Disney's Animal Kingdom. The attractions were not limited because the undertaking was risking the entire company, but because it was intended to give guests enough to fill up enough time that people said they were happy when asked by the research team and that they booked another night.

The Animal Kingdom was built with 2 rides, and 2 modes of transport (Wildlife Express Train and Discovery River Boats). The Boats should have had additional elements to them, and Kali River Rapids did open up within a year, but the fact of the matter is, the park needs more rides.

It's my favorite park in Walt Disney World, but people are going to continue to bad mouth it until there are more rides. Quite frankly, too many people have misconceptions about the park, or are simply not interested in the shows or animal exhibits. As such, if they want to get those people to enter the gates, they need rides.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Half Day argument...

The ultimate half day park was not AK, but MGM. I used to read the fuming hate mail from guests the first year as there was literally nothing much to do. They were soooo angry. Can you say. "ONE E Ride?" Then the Tram tour was supposedly the rest of the show. Pathetic. It was only the size of one land in the MK and yet it was a full admission. They opened it on the cheap (300m) knowing this and then added capacity once the cash flow was there. Bad business practice IMO.

Here's the map. Shockingly spare.

http://www.yesterland.com/mgm-beginning.html

 

[George]

The ultimate half day park was not AK, but MGM. I used to read the fuming hate mail from guests the first year as there was literally nothing much to do. They were soooo angry. Can you say. "ONE E Ride?" Then the Tram tour was supposedly the rest of the show. Pathetic. It was only the size of one land in the MK and yet it was a full admission. They opened it on the cheap (300m) knowing this and then added capacity once the cash flow was there. Bad business practice IMO.

Here's the map. Shockingly spare.

http://www.yesterland.com/mgm-beginning.html

I remember reading about MGM at opening. It looked so lame to me (I was 20 at the time) that I didn't set foot in the park for years. When I did first enter the park it was post ToT and RnR, so I can't say that I ever really experienced that phase, but it must have been super lame.

 

[ChrisFL]

I remember reading about MGM at opening. It looked so lame to me (I was 20 at the time) that I didn't set foot in the park for years. When I did first enter the park it was post ToT and RnR, so I can't say that I ever really experienced that phase, but it must have been super lame.

It was just Eisner's attempt to steal thunder from Universal Studios opening a year later.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It was just Eisner's attempt to steal thunder from Universal Studios opening a year later.

True enough. It was basically a copy of their tour. As you know, Uni Hollywood had no rides to speak of other than a Tram Tour and some shows, so you can see how they would see it as a legit approach.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Smell the flowers and one can spend a week at the Oasis alone! :sohappy:


WDW needs diversity between the parks too. Not all four parks ought to be a perfect average of guest's wishes. Let DHS be the thrill park, EPCOT the 'wonder' park (...as if nowadays :lookaroun), MK the classic park and AK be...well AK. AK doesn't lack dark rides or thrill rides. Even if several of these were to open, the park would still be underwhleming for those who come for that.
So I think AK should be confident about itself, and develop itself in its own direction. AK lacks a new section along the lines of Asia and Africa, a rethink of the dinosaur/extinct animals section, plus perhaps a little fairy wispering in Rhode's ear that it is okay for a ride to last more than 25 seconds and that they do not need a clear narrative story.

What I dislike is the shanty town look of AK. If they build a 'Europe' section, will it feature wild boar and European bison to be visited from a rundown 1980s Tchernobyl village? Will it look like the eastern suburbs of Paris, filthy and rundown? Why not show an authentic representation of a mountaintop Carpathian village, or an old Iberian village, instead of the ugliest 1980s mess one can find?
The look of the MK is 'pristine hyper reality'. World Showcase is a polished, disneyfied look. The look of AK is 'authenticity, warts and all'. Still, India and Africa are full of gorgeous villages and towns, absolutely stunning, and not in the polished marble beauty AK seeks to avoid.

Other than that, I think AK has phenomenal potential, apart from being already a great park. Animals and nature appeal to an enormous amount of people. All children go through a phase where they discuss which is their favourite animal. It is in our genes. We are meant to understand the ouside world, to understand animals, to observe plants, to understand both.

Why has it been the BBC which has invented the 'Blockbuster nature programmes'? Since 1998 the BBC has released everything from 'Walking with Dinosaurs' to 'Planet Earth'. Why not Disney, which has a sixty year tradition of wildlife filming and which operates an entire animal park?
Somebody ought to wake up at Disney and understand that 'quality family entertainment' is more than cartoon characters. EPCOT and AK hold such potential for park development synergised with movie and television.

 

[ChrisFL]

Why has it been the BBC which has invented the 'Blockbuster nature programmes'? Since 1998 the BBC has released everything from 'Walking with Dinosaurs' to 'Planet Earth'. Why not Disney, which has a sixty year tradition of wildlife filming and which operates an entire animal park?
Somebody ought to wake up at Disney and understand that 'quality family entertainment' is more than cartoon characters. EPCOT and AK hold such potential for park development synergised with movie and television.

Well DisneyNature has a few very good films out now, in the tradition of the True Life Adventures.

 

[BlueLightningTN]

Well, with the continued talk about Animal Kingdom, here's what I would do if you gave me the lead position on a project to fully realize Animal Kingdom with five hundred million dollars.

1) Create a nighttime entertainment show on the the waterfront near Expedition Everest. Use specialty watercraft to create water projection screens, water jets, and any other non-firework effects needed. Theme it around the wonders of nature and make it a mixture of Reflections of Earth and World of Color. Build themed boardwalks and seating from Asia's waterfront all the way around Dinoland's waterfront, without greatly disturbing the fauna. Make Flametree BBQ's covered areas near the water a very pricey, and very nice dinner area for the event. Take boats out on the waterway for people to have an even better view for additional cost. All of this would keep me and many other people in AK late into the night and would mean we'd need an extra day at WDW to see everything.

Price: 120 Million

2) I know people want Beastly Kingdom, but I'd rather see Australia. Place Australia between Africa and Asia by taking out part of the train ride to Rafiki's Planet Watch and making it just a one-way track. Move the Nemo musical to a theater in the new Australia area, and change the current building over to a true dinosaur museum complete with giant animatronics that people can control for fun. Create a thrill ride between E Savannah Circle and Conservation Way that has you racing through the Outback to save a rare species. Build a Walkabout Trail that allows you to see Wallabies, Kangaroos, Platypi, Tazmanian Devils, Koalas, etc. Stick a restaurant in there. Finally, do a very small (though impressive) aquarium that displays the Great Barrier Reef creatures.

Price: The Rest

Voilah... AK is a park I have to spend all day to see, plus you've got another thrill ride for the impatient and more animal species for the observers. Everybody's happy and the kiddos now have a bona fide dinosaur museum to spend hours in... plus it provides a badly needed air conditioned area akin to a pavillion.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Well, with the continued talk about Animal Kingdom, here's what I would do if you gave me the lead position on a project to fully realize Animal Kingdom with five hundred million dollars.

1) Create a nighttime entertainment show on the the waterfront near Expedition Everest. Use specialty watercraft to create water projection screens, water jets, and any other non-firework effects needed. Theme it around the wonders of nature and make it a mixture of Reflections of Earth and World of Color. Build themed boardwalks and seating from Asia's waterfront all the way around Dinoland's waterfront, without greatly disturbing the fauna. Make Flametree BBQ's covered areas near the water a very pricey, and very nice dinner area for the event. Take boats out on the waterway for people to have an even better view for additional cost. All of this would keep me and many other people in AK late into the night and would mean we'd need an extra day at WDW to see everything.

Price: 120 Million

2) I know people want Beastly Kingdom, but I'd rather see Australia. Place Australia between Africa and Asia by taking out part of the train ride to Rafiki's Planet Watch and making it just a one-way track. Move the Nemo musical to a theater in the new Australia area, and change the current building over to a true dinosaur museum complete with giant animatronics that people can control for fun. Create a thrill ride between E Savannah Circle and Conservation Way that has you racing through the Outback to save a rare species. Build a Walkabout Trail that allows you to see Wallabies, Kangaroos, Platypi, Tazmanian Devils, Koalas, etc. Stick a restaurant in there. Finally, do a very small (though impressive) aquarium that displays the Great Barrier Reef creatures.

Price: The Rest

Voilah... AK is a park I have to spend all day to see, plus you've got another thrill ride for the impatient and more animal species for the observers. Everybody's happy and the kiddos now have a bona fide dinosaur museum to spend hours in... plus it provides a badly needed air conditioned area akin to a pavillion.

I'd go. No "Crocodile Hunter" stunt spectacular?

 

[BlueLightningTN]

I'd go. No "Crocodile Hunter" stunt spectacular?

Only if Dundee also makes an appearance and declares "that's not a knife."

 

[RSoxNo1]

If my favorite expansion plot (behind Kali) is to be used, I'd actually prefer to see it as a Europe area with the mythical animal concept returning. I do like the idea of the one way train between conservation station. That could solve many of the issues in accessing this expansion plot.

The reason why I want to see Europe there is it would allow the park to be laid out more like an actual map of the world. Australia could go in the Dinorama area and absorb The Finding Nemo the Musical show.

This would leave the Camp Minnie Mickey area for South America.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

If my favorite expansion plot (behind Kali) is to be used, I'd actually prefer to see it as a Europe area with the mythical animal concept returning. I do like the idea of the one way train between conservation station. That could solve many of the issues in accessing this expansion plot.

The reason why I want to see Europe there is it would allow the park to be laid out more like an actual map of the world. Australia could go in the Dinorama area and absorb The Finding Nemo the Musical show.

This would leave the Camp Minnie Mickey area for South America.

If climate change is real, and the oceans are really rising against the continents
may be the living seas Pavilion should be moved into the center!

 

[CrescentLake]

If my favorite expansion plot (behind Kali) is to be used, I'd actually prefer to see it as a Europe area with the mythical animal concept returning. I do like the idea of the one way train between conservation station. That could solve many of the issues in accessing this expansion plot.

The reason why I want to see Europe there is it would allow the park to be laid out more like an actual map of the world. Australia could go in the Dinorama area and absorb The Finding Nemo the Musical show.

This would leave the Camp Minnie Mickey area for South America.

I actually really like that idea, but how would you thematically justify Dinosaur? Or would Australia just replace Dinorama?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Steve Jobs builds Progress City.

We have discussed how Steve Jobs could add the needed vision to Tomorrowland or EPCOT. Now we can see how he applies his vision to a large development. Here is his ambitious architectural vision for Apple's new campus. A radial plan at that. (Reminds me of the Fan Clutch hotel complex we proposed for Paris.) There is an odd Walt/Steve thing going on here as clearly this is his legacy (along with building a data center to serve any and all future products) and both of them conceived it, planned it, but never lived to see it complete. Mary Poppins transformed Disney and was pretty much the peak of success for Walt as Apple eclipses the market value of both Intel and Microsoft combined. Death is such a limiting factor, if only they lived forever who knows what they could have created together!

http://www.9to5mac.com/71080/steve-...apple-super-campus-to-cupertino-city-council/