Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[wdwmagic]

I do wonder how it will play in the Magic Kingdom Park, especially across the way from Small World and a couple dark rides, and around the corner from Haunted Mansion. But for DCA, it's just made a hugely positive impact smack dab in the middle of that transforming park.

It is going to be massively popular at WDW in my opinion, perhaps more so than at DCA. The MK has needed a high quality Fantasyland attraction for years, and this checks all the requirement boxes for the guests who spend time in Fantasyland.

 

[ChrisFL]

If only Animal Kingdom could get a quality dark ride like that....

 

[MonorailGuy11]

If only Animal Kingdom could get a quality dark ride like that....

You know that makes me wonder, what do the Execs think when they walk around Animal Kingdom? Are they really satisfied?

I was there last week, and I have to say the shows just don't cut it for me anymore. I know EE is only a few years old, but there has to be something else there to force me through the gate. The Safari is nice, Dinosaur is fun, Tough to be a Bug is entertaining, but I just can not justify spending more then a few hours over there on any trip.

 

[AEfx]

It is going to be massively popular at WDW in my opinion, perhaps more so than at DCA. The MK has needed a high quality Fantasyland attraction for years, and this checks all the requirement boxes for the guests who spend time in Fantasyland.

Although I'm not big on buzz-words, it's also going to add a great deal of "placemaking" to WDW's Fantasyland, as well.

It's my favorite land, but I spend so little time there. You wait for the few attractions (with unthemed exteriors, at least compared to, say Disneyland), and then nothing to do there. Not even any really nice place to settle and hang out except for the generic table area over by Ariel/Pinocchio's fast food.

That's what is so great about FLE. Our Fantasyland was a distant last place compared to the other parks (HK excluded, can't speak to that one). Disneyland has more attractions and MUCH better theming (you know, rides are actually in facades themed to the contents - who'd have thunk?), Disneyland Paris has superior rides themselves (technologically), much the same as Tokyo (who probably will be the new 4th place).

Now, we are going to have not one but two unique dark rides (Mermaid being in DCA nonwithstanding), and a huge new themed area (B&TB) with a real food option and it sounds like just a nice place to "hang out". My hope is once they are done with this, they shutter Pan and do a full rebuild, and then we are really on to something.

Fantasyland *IS* WDW/Disney Parks to so much of the public, it's a shame ours languished so long but it's so nice to see it finally taking a turn.

 

[KevinYee]

As you know, they did get away with it and little kids love it, they then chalked up the fact that TDL Pooh did so well with Adults to "Japanese culture". There is some truth to that, but the ride is still a smash with Americans that see it, so I'm not sure it could not have been marketed and done well here.

Everything from books about theme parks to Roller Coaster Tycoon implies that parks need thrill rides (physical thrills) to balance out the slow rides. Walt was told something similar. In my dream park, I imagine disregarding this wisdom, and having NOTHING but dark rides (all of them slow, many of them Omnimover, etc).

In some ways, this was EPCOT Center 1982. But they did it on a grand scale without the smaller dark rides, and without the 'transportation' rides like PeopleMovers, monorails, skyways, Main Street vehicles. I'd want to include them in my dream park.

Of course, Disneyland 1955-1959 (pre Matterhorn) was like this, too. There was no thrill attraction (let alone a series of mountains), and I consider it no accident that it became world-famous quickly.

Can you imagine an animation park built out of nothing but Fantasyland style dark rides (bus bar, slightly better than painted flats) that leveraged the Disney characters, used the Disney songs, and placed you into each movie? Fantasyland rides always have lines - why don't they build like 30 more of these? At this point, they could almost do "continents" as lands, and place the Disney movies/darkrides into the continents that way.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build 30 small dark rides than five "big coasters"? Anyway, a man can dream in the safety of his own skull

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Everything from books about theme parks to Roller Coaster Tycoon implies that parks need thrill rides (physical thrills) to balance out the slow rides. Walt was told something similar. In my dream park, I imagine disregarding this wisdom, and having NOTHING but dark rides (all of them slow, many of them Omnimover, etc).

In some ways, this was EPCOT Center 1982. But they did it on a grand scale without the smaller dark rides, and without the 'transportation' rides like PeopleMovers, monorails, skyways, Main Street vehicles. I'd want to include them in my dream park.

Of course, Disneyland 1955-1959 (pre Matterhorn) was like this, too. There was no thrill attraction (let alone a series of mountains), and I consider it no accident that it became world-famous quickly.

Can you imagine an animation park built out of nothing but Fantasyland style dark rides (bus bar, slightly better than painted flats) that leveraged the Disney characters, used the Disney songs, and placed you into each movie? Fantasyland rides always have lines - why don't they build like 30 more of these? At this point, they could almost do "continents" as lands, and place the Disney movies/darkrides into the continents that way.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build 30 small dark rides than five "big coasters"? Anyway, a man can dream in the safety of his own skull

Interesting point. No, any more, those "cheap" dark rides are in air conditioned buildings, with action effects and tons of lighting and lots of vehicles, so they end up being expensive (per guest carried) compared to iron rides that are outdoors and are bought from coaster companies. Alice rehab at DL in the 1980's was 7M, then and the ride existed already. To me, the success of these parks (or lands) is the "mix" of formats. In addition to those dark rides, Fantasyland has outdoor flying rides like Dumbo, "round" rides like the Carousel and Tea Party, even a Boat and high speed kiddie Train ride. No real coaster thrill rides, but spinning, flying and so boats. So in several hours you have experienced many varied sensations. I'm all for a dark ride park, but the black light format is but one style (that is not good at night), I'd want more format variety that is story driven.

But that's my dream park, you're welcome to yours

 

[Eddie Sotto]

You know that makes me wonder, what do the Execs think when they walk around Animal Kingdom? Are they really satisfied?

I was there last week, and I have to say the shows just don't cut it for me anymore. I know EE is only a few years old, but there has to be something else there to force me through the gate. The Safari is nice, Dinosaur is fun, Tough to be a Bug is entertaining, but I just can not justify spending more then a few hours over there on any trip.

Hard to tell. They invested big with EE, so that says they are willing to add things. Kevin would know more about it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Interesting article on the history of Monorails today over at Miceage. I learned the obvious too, that the DL Monorail, like the Steam Trains is 5/8ths scale. I never thought of them as "scaled down" as I have always accepted them as unique as to themselves and had nothing to compare. Always wondered why you have to bend down to get in the door, Now I know why! Interesting. So many rides are "scaled down" to a degree but not that obvious, like the SS Columbia.

http://micechat.com/forums/blogs/sa...-alweg-monorail-walt-disneys-highway-sky.html

 

[RunnerEd]

Hard to tell. They invested big with EE, so that says they are willing to add things. Kevin would know more about it.

I agree that they invested heavily in EE but the "Disco Yeti" makes the ending of that attraction a serious downer; especially for those of us who saw him in "A" mode. What do you think the permanent resolution to the Yeti will be?

 

[BlueLightningTN]

Hard to tell. They invested big with EE, so that says they are willing to add things. Kevin would know more about it.

You would think they would realize that Animal Kingdom needs an expansion to become a full-day park... and a full-day park means more profit. I think a top priority for WDW should be expanding both Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios to the point that they are on par with Magic Kingdom and EPCOT. Currently many people people think if they've hit MK and EPCOT, they're not missing much with the other two.

I definitely think MK needs a thrill ride on par with ToT or RnRC to please the teens and thrill junkies, and EPCOT desperately needs more attractions for children and the WS, but priority numero uno should be upgrading DHS and AK.

IMHO as always.

 

[COProgressFan]

Although I'm not big on buzz-words, it's also going to add a great deal of "placemaking" to WDW's Fantasyland, as well.

It's my favorite land, but I spend so little time there. You wait for the few attractions (with unthemed exteriors, at least compared to, say Disneyland), and then nothing to do there. Not even any really nice place to settle and hang out except for the generic table area over by Ariel/Pinocchio's fast food.

That's what is so great about FLE. Our Fantasyland was a distant last place compared to the other parks (HK excluded, can't speak to that one). Disneyland has more attractions and MUCH better theming (you know, rides are actually in facades themed to the contents - who'd have thunk?), Disneyland Paris has superior rides themselves (technologically), much the same as Tokyo (who probably will be the new 4th place).

Now, we are going to have not one but two unique dark rides (Mermaid being in DCA nonwithstanding), and a huge new themed area (B&TB) with a real food option and it sounds like just a nice place to "hang out". My hope is once they are done with this, they shutter Pan and do a full rebuild, and then we are really on to something.

Fantasyland *IS* WDW/Disney Parks to so much of the public, it's a shame ours languished so long but it's so nice to see it finally taking a turn.

I agree with this completely. The MK's Fantasyland until now has mostly been hot, vast concrete land with minimal foliage (especially as trees and fountains were removed during the past 10 or 15 years). Combine that with the weakly themed buildings and it was not especially impressive.

While it is far too soon to tell, based on the info we've all heard it looks like the new addition will be lushly landscaped, with foliage and water features. And instead of decorated warehouses, we will will get buildings that are fully themed and perhaps more architecturally unique. If nothing else, it looks as if this will be a very beautiful location in the park.

If they were smart, they would be sure to include lots of benches and other places to sit or relax. So many of these little quiet spots in pretty locations have disappeared throughout the years.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I agree that they invested heavily in EE but the "Disco Yeti" makes the ending of that attraction a serious downer; especially for those of us who saw him in "A" mode. What do you think the permanent resolution to the Yeti will be?

I'm a west coaster so I'm not that familiar with the Yeti, having only seen him once. He should be the "wow".

 

[RunnerEd]

I'm a west coaster so I'm not that familiar with the Yeti, having only seen him once. He should be the "wow".

When he moved, every head in the train ducked and there were screams. With him in "disco mode;" stationary with strobe lights trained on him, it is completely ho-hum. I often ride with first timers via the single rider line who don't even notice him.

 

[cheezbat]

You would think they would realize that Animal Kingdom needs an expansion to become a full-day park... and a full-day park means more profit. I think a top priority for WDW should be expanding both Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios to the point that they are on par with Magic Kingdom and EPCOT. Currently many people people think if they've hit MK and EPCOT, they're not missing much with the other two.

I definitely think MK needs a thrill ride on par with ToT or RnRC to please the teens and thrill junkies, and EPCOT desperately needs more attractions for children and the WS, but priority numero uno should be upgrading DHS and AK.

IMHO as always.

:sohappy::sohappy::sohappy:

 

[devoy1701]

You would think they would realize that Animal Kingdom needs an expansion to become a full-day park... and a full-day park means more profit. I think a top priority for WDW should be expanding both Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios to the point that they are on par with Magic Kingdom and EPCOT. Currently many people people think if they've hit MK and EPCOT, they're not missing much with the other two.

I definitely think MK needs a thrill ride on par with ToT or RnRC to please the teens and thrill junkies, and EPCOT desperately needs more attractions for children and the WS, but priority numero uno should be upgrading DHS and AK.

IMHO as always.

While I disagree that Animal Kingdom isn't a full day park, I do agree that it could use another 2-3 attractions to balance out its offerings. AK offers an experience that the other 3 parks don't offer, and if you take the time to enjoy that experience at a leisurely pace (not just briskly walking through the Jungle Trek and through the bird areas but actually taking time to enjoy and take in the animal exhibits and what not) you can easily find yourself spending a full day in the park (atleast with the current shorter hours the park offers).

Having said that, it does make it difficult for people who don't have the luxury of going to WDW whenever they please to jusify spending so much time in AK when it has such a short "attraction line-up" compared to the other parks and they only have a limited time to visit.

As for Hollywood, I somewhat agree with your sentiment, but at this point I think Epcot needs more help than Hollywood Studios does being that the Studios has received 2 new attractions and a fantastic re-imagined attraction in the past 3 years while Epcot has received 2 eateries and a half finished Spaceship Earth.

:animwink:

 

[PhilharMagician]

While I disagree that Animal Kingdom isn't a full day park, I do agree that it could use another 2-3 attractions to balance out its offerings. AK offers an experience that the other 3 parks don't offer, and if you take the time to enjoy that experience at a leisurely pace (not just briskly walking through the Jungle Trek and through the bird areas but actually taking time to enjoy and take in the animal exhibits and what not) you can easily find yourself spending a full day in the park (atleast with the current shorter hours the park offers).

Having said that, it does make it difficult for people who don't have the luxury of going to WDW whenever they please to jusify spending so much time in AK when it has such a short "attraction line-up" compared to the other parks and they only have a limited time to visit.

As for Hollywood, I somewhat agree with your sentiment, but at this point I think Epcot needs more help than Hollywood Studios does being that the Studios has received 2 new attractions and a fantastic re-imagined attraction in the past 3 years while Epcot has received 2 eateries and a half finished Spaceship Earth.

:animwink:

I have to agree on AK. It is absolutely not a 1/2 day park unless you want to run and gun the rides only. There is no way one can experience all that AK has to offer even in one day. Many people look at a theme park and expect a amusement park with niothing but rides. This is not Six Flags, this is Animal Kingdom. Walk the trails, go to the shows, ride the rides and slow down to enjoy the amazing theming and beauty of the park.

 

[BlueLightningTN]

When the park's operating hours are half the Magic Kingdom's operating hours, it's a half-day park by default.

 

[rioriz]

When the park's operating hours are half the Magic Kingdom's operating hours, it's a half-day park by default.

Sorry this is a flase statement...

AK hours for June

9am-8pm

If you call that a half of day I would love to see your work schedule!

 

[Condorman]

When the park's operating hours are half the Magic Kingdom's operating hours, it's a half-day park by default.

Wrong. Nobody said you had to do the full day in one day. I always laugh when people say DAK or DHS are half-day parks. You may be able to do the things YOU want to do in 4-5 hours, but you're not doing everything there IS to do in 4-5 hours. Just because you don't walk the trails, see every show and "smell the roses" so to speak, doesn't mean others don't and that it's not a full-day park.

Furthermore, I can do 80-90% of MK (yes, nearly every ride, show and attraction) from 9am through 5pm. I guess that makes it a half-day park as well? No, it doesn't. And by that scale, USO and IoA would be virtual lunch-breaks in comparison to any park in WDW. Reconsider your definitions.

 

[PhilharMagician]

When the park's operating hours are half the Magic Kingdom's operating hours, it's a half-day park by default.

That statement is totally incorrect.With that logic that would make DHS a 2/3 day park and Epcot anywhere from 2/3 day to a 1 1/8 day park depending on the time of the year and Epcot's hours. :shrug: