Several People Injured In Disney Bus Crash

[niteobsrvr]

You mean....pay a fair wage to someone with actual qualities and skills and training? Pssh! We're talking about WDW here.

Disney pays the slightly above the typical wage for a bus driver in the Orlando area and has above average benefits.

 

[jakeman]

They need to start looking for quality people or these roles with experience managing tranisit outside of the organization.

Disney would seem to agree with you.

https://disney.recruitmax.com/main/careerportal/Job_Profile.cfm?szOrderID=209740&szReturnToSearch=1&szWordsToHighlight=

They are looking for a new VP of transportation and one of the requirements is 10 years of transportation experience.

 

[niteobsrvr]

I fail to see the connection to this crash. A bus was involved in an accident. How do you make the leap to a leadership problem and a training problem? You yourself state that "Disney's record is really good".

WDW has over 38 years' experience in transportation.

The incidents that have occurred this year suggest a breakdown in the department. Leadership and training go hand in hand. In the monorail case this year, it is clear that simple procedures were not in place to prevent the accident. Specifically, management failed to recognize a hazard and utilize proper controls.

In the case of the bus situations, the drivers were not operating the vehicle in a safe manner and following defensive driving practices. In the transportation world, all most all accidents are the fault of the operator of the vehicle. Drivers must be trained to properly inspect or recognize mechanical issues which may result in a failure that contributes to an accident. They also must be able to continually scan their changing environment and act or react accordingly to prevent an accident.

Disney's transportation system has grown to the point that it needs to be palced in the hands of people with public transit and vehicle safety experience at all levels of the management team.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Disney would seem to agree with you.

https://disney.recruitmax.com/main/careerportal/Job_Profile.cfm?szOrderID=209740&szReturnToSearch=1&szWordsToHighlight=

They are looking for a new VP of transportation and one of the requirements is 10 years of transportation experience.

I saw that after I wrote my post last night. I also found that they place Jim Vendur in charge of transportation in addition to his responsibilities as VP of Utilities and Reedy Creek Energy Services. SInce the monorail accident, I ahve been wondering if they would begin to treat the transportation operations more as a "utility" and less as part of the attraction. I think this answers that question as well.

I think more moves along this line will come once the NTSB investigation findings are released. If their findings say that the system is public transportation provided at the expense of the Company, Monorails may end up subject to Federal Rail Rules. The buses and their operators must already obey Federal Driver and Maintenance Regulations. I am not sure where Watercraft fall in relationship to Coast Guard rules.

In any case, when you are dealing with hundreds and potentially thousands of people's lives on your vehicles at any point in time at Walt Disney World, it is best to treat it more like a transit system and less like an attraction. It doesn't mean the magic has to dissappear. It just means the operators of those vehicles should be concentrating on safety and vehicle operation more so than entertaining the guests.

 

[PhotoDave219]

One problem with that - The NTSB doesnt have the power to enforce its findings/recommendations.

 

[OliveMcFly]

On Dec 21 around 8pm I was headed home. I was near Sea World on I4 where the speed limit is 55mph. A DME bus flew up behind me, almost hitting me. He flashed his lights for me to go faster, I guess 55 wasn't fast enough. He flew around me and was in and out of traffic. I'm not saying this accident was the bus drivers fault but perhaps transportation needs some updated safety training.

 

[niteobsrvr]

On Dec 21 around 8pm I was headed home. I was near Sea World on I4 where the speed limit is 55mph. A DME bus flew up behind me, almost hitting me. He flashed his lights for me to go faster, I guess 55 wasn't fast enough. He flew around me and was in and out of traffic. I'm not saying this accident was the bus drivers fault but perhaps transportation needs some updated safety training.

The DME buses are not Disney's. They are a contract service through Mears Destination Services. The drivers are hired and trained by Mears.

 

[niteobsrvr]

One problem with that - The NTSB doesnt have the power to enforce its findings/recommendations.

True, but if it is determined that Monorails falls under Federal Rail rules that will be enforceable by the Federal Railroad Administration.

 

[OliveMcFly]

The DME buses are not Disney's. They are a contract service through Mears Destination Services. The drivers are hired and trained by Mears.

That was very helpful information, thank you.

 

[PhotoDave219]

True, but if it is determined that Monorails falls under Federal Rail rules that will be enforceable by the Federal Railroad Administration.

Yes thats true. All the NTSB can do is to find the cause and issue findings and recommendations. While not enforceable, its some serious bad PR for the mouse if they dont.

 

[HMF]

OK' Now if I were OSHA I would do a full top-down investigation. This has been happening too often to just be a coincidence.

 

[bugsbunny]

No doubt caused by scooters.:animwink:

 

[WDW1974]

Haven't read the thread yet, but do we have people blaming the media and saying these things happen all the time? And that we shouldn't judge Disney harshly? And that all the cutbacks they've made (including training budgets) have no affect on the rise of incidents in transport (which are all made up and exaggerrated by media because IT IS DISNEY!)?

Just wondering ...

 

[Monty]

Haven't read the thread yet, but do we have people blaming the media and saying these things happen all the time? And that we shouldn't judge Disney harshly? And that all the cutbacks they've made (including training budgets) have no affect on the rise of incidents in transport (which are all made up and exaggerrated by media because IT IS DISNEY!)?

Just wondering ...

Maybe you should read the thread and then you would know?

Or would that be too pedestrian for you?

 

[WDW1974]

Maybe you should read the thread and then you would know?

Maybe later ... so many threads, so little time ... life to live ... magical Disney trips to plan ...

Or would that be too pedestrian for you?

Well, now that you mention it ... Monty, old chap ... :xmas:

 

[luckyeye13]

If their findings say that the system is public transportation provided at the expense of the Company, Monorails may end up subject to Federal Rail Rules. The buses and their operators must already obey Federal Driver and Maintenance Regulations. I am not sure where Watercraft fall in relationship to Coast Guard rules.

In any case, when you are dealing with hundreds and potentially thousands of people's lives on your vehicles at any point in time at Walt Disney World, it is best to treat it more like a transit system and less like an attraction. It doesn't mean the magic has to dissappear. It just means the operators of those vehicles should be concentrating on safety and vehicle operation more so than entertaining the guests.

As the WDW Monorails are a self-contained system, they cannot be subject to Federal Railroad Administration rules. That is the reason that most subway-like, trolley, and monorail services in the US are not subject to these rules as they either do not share track with conventional rail services or do not operate at the same time. Two notable exceptions to this in my area are the PATH trains between New York and New Jersey and the Staten Island Railway in New York due to their connections to the national rail system. The WDW boats are not subject to Coast Guard regulations for a similar reason, as the waterways that they operate on are not connected with the outside. When I started at the Friendship Boats, I was told that is why the flags on the WDW boats only have 48 stars, as only boats regulated by the US Coast Guard can display the regular US flag. Buses, obviously, cannot enjoy the same exemptions because they operate on roads that are linked up to the world outside of the purple gates.

As for doing more driving and less entertaining, the buses already have the Magic in Motion system in place that allows for that, though a lot of people seem to not like it for that very reason. (For what it's worth, while I enjoyed having chatty bus drivers, I am also quite a fan of MiM.) On the Friendship Boats, the spieling is now done by the deckhand, instead of the captain, for that very reason and also because it looks better when the person talking to you is actually facing you.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Has there been any info as to what caused this particular bus accident? I know there were some speculations early in the thread but the articles didn't indicate what the cause was.

:animwink:

 

[ChipmunkStar]

So this simply solidified my decision to rent a car in April. I really hope that all of these accidents are being investigated thoroughly, and that what seems to be an epidemic in transportation accidents comes to an end. I also hope nobody was seriously hurt in this accident, either.

 

[niteobsrvr]

So this simply solidified my decision to rent a car in April. I really hope that all of these accidents are being investigated thoroughly, and that what seems to be an epidemic in transportation accidents comes to an end. I also hope nobody was seriously hurt in this accident, either.

I personally would not rent a car. There is clearly an issue, as I stated previously, with training and defensive driving. However, the odds are the same for an accident whether on a Disney Bus or in a private rental vehicle.

Disney busses make a few thousand roundtrips a day on roads where a lot of people dont know where they are going and the cast members know exactly where they are going and do so at too high a speed. One incident is still a good track record. But based on what I have seen this year, Disney needs to refocus on The safety accept of their guest service mantra of safety, courtesy, show and efficiency. Seems the first one has been slipping as they focused on the last three over recent years.

 

[niteobsrvr]

As the WDW Monorails are a self-contained system, they cannot be subject to Federal Railroad Administration rules. That is the reason that most subway-like, trolley, and monorail services in the US are not subject to these rules as they either do not share track with conventional rail services or do not operate at the same time. Two notable exceptions to this in my area are the PATH trains between New York and New Jersey and the Staten Island Railway in New York due to their connections to the national rail system. The WDW boats are not subject to Coast Guard regulations for a similar reason, as the waterways that they operate on are not connected with the outside. When I started at the Friendship Boats, I was told that is why the flags on the WDW boats only have 48 stars, as only boats regulated by the US Coast Guard can display the regular US flag. Buses, obviously, cannot enjoy the same exemptions because they operate on roads that are linked up to the world outside of the purple gates.

As for doing more driving and less entertaining, the buses already have the Magic in Motion system in place that allows for that, though a lot of people seem to not like it for that very reason. (For what it's worth, while I enjoyed having chatty bus drivers, I am also quite a fan of MiM.) On the Friendship Boats, the spieling is now done by the deckhand, instead of the captain, for that very reason and also because it looks better when the person talking to you is actually facing you.

I respect your knowledge of the current situation. However, that situation is in the process of evolving. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w...ety_oversight_of_subways_light_rail_proposed/

Whether a systems is open or closed is not a significant criteria for determing whether Federal Rail Rules will apply. In fact, the Federal Rail Administration is currently looking at Tourists Railroads, which depending on actual definition the monorail system mail fall into, for safety evaluation and regulation. Granted it might take them 10 years to do that. But, it is an issue being addressed. This is above and beyond the article link above.

The busses, watercraft and monorails at Disney become harder to classify as attractions as each year passes, attendance grows and the parks expand. They offer a service that is readily available to the public, at no charge since they do not check for IDs or have tickets. By providing a service in this manner, Disney has no clause that the customer agrees to that might exempt it from certain liabilities in the event of an accident or other situation. This in itself is a huge problem for Disney if anyone were to make a challenge. The fact is the system operates more like a free city transit system than anything.

Maybe the Federal Rail people dont have the authority as of yet but it looks like they will soon as this country begins a shift to more effective transportation systems. The Federal Transit Administration was charge in 1991 with instituting state managed safety regulations and organizations to monitor and promote safe practices in transit rail environments.