Pros & Cons

[DMC-12]

This is a great topic and well handled. People are not getting affended by hearing the pros and cons.

I have done the math and can't find it benefiting me. I do know, its best to pay the initial contract in cash. Financing can kill the cost benefits.

so the CON: the future and the unknown.

Same here. I mean some people love it and sware by it... and thats great.. since they seem to be getting so much enjoyment out of it. I guess that makes for great "returns" in itself.... but I would like more than that.

I have done the math serveral times... and I cant see it working for me either. Well... that... and I have issues with long term (talking 50 years here) contracts...lol :lol: I wish I could get it to work in my favor, or that they could change some things with the DVC, to attract me to "buying" into it.

 

[Master Yoda]

Same here. I mean some people love it and sware by it... and thats great.. since they seem to be getting so much enjoyment out of it. I guess that makes for great "returns" in itself.... but I would like more than that.

I have done the math serveral times... and I cant see it working for me either. Well... that... and I have issues with long term (talking 50 years here) contracts...lol :lol: I wish I could get it to work in my favor, or that they could change some things with the DVC, to attract me to "buying" into it.

We also could not make the numbers work but if you fit into that "1 week per year at deluxe resorts" demographic it can save you a ton of cash over the long haul.

I do wish Disney would come up with some kind of modified plan that would work with the value and the moderate resorts and accommodate the frequent weekend traveler but I guess there are not enough of us to make it worth it for Disney.

 

[Computer Magic]

We also could not make the numbers work but if you fit into that "1 week per year at deluxe resorts" demographic it can save you a ton of cash over the long haul.

I do wish Disney would come up with some kind of modified plan that would work with the value and the moderate resorts and accommodate the frequent weekend traveler but I guess there are not enough of us to make it worth it for Disney.

I've been accused of being a deluxe snob *glares at Reg* :lookaroun. But I would consider myself a cheap deluxe. I've stayed at AKL and WL which is the lessor costing deluxe. Otherwise I wait for deals. I enjoy POR FQ.

The 50 year contract scares me as well. Hell my mortgage has only 16 years left.

 

[Master Yoda]

I've been accused of being a deluxe snob *glares at Reg* :lookaroun. But I would consider myself a cheap deluxe. I've stayed at AKL and WL which is the lessor costing deluxe. Otherwise I wait for deals. I enjoy POR FQ.

The 50 year contract scares me as well. Hell my mortgage has only 16 years left.

We have stayed at all three levels and find the most bang for the buck at the moderates, in particular PORS. Don't get me wrong I love the deluxe resorts (we have stayed at nearly all of them) but we can do what we want to do at them (mainly dining)without staying there at 2 to 3 times the price of PORS. PORS has that perfect balance of theming, dinning and amenities without getting too expensive.

 

[hansel1]

We bought in after staying in a moderate resort two years in a row. We stayed 7 night the first time and 10 the next. Our total bill for lodging for both trips was $3400. For $16000 we could buy the same amount of nights lodgin for 35 years (we bought boardwalk villas resort). We anticipate going to WDW every year for at least a 7 - 10 night stay. We will be ahead of the game in 7 years, especially if resort rates continue to rise every year.

Also, remember that non-peak park seasons are not necesarilly the same as non-peak DVC times.

 

[Computer Magic]

We bought in after staying in a moderate resort two years in a row. We stayed 7 night the first time and 10 the next. Our total bill for lodging for both trips was $3400. For $16000 we could buy the same amount of nights lodgin for 35 years (we bought boardwalk villas resort). We anticipate going to WDW every year for at least a 7 - 10 night stay. We will be ahead of the game in 7 years, especially if resort rates continue to rise every year.

Also, remember that non-peak park seasons are not necesarilly the same as non-peak DVC times.

Was the 3400 dollars the entire trip (ie room food, park tickets, etc?). and isn't' the 16000 initial cost only include the room? I know the yearly maintenance fee can raise up to a certain percent every year.

I'm sure it works out for you, just trying to compare apples to apples for those reading and making a decision :wave:

 

[Phonedave]

My Father in Law recently bought a Motorhome, as he is near retirement. I know what he paid for it (barely used), and what he is going to have to pay in taxes, interest, insurance, and gas. I can't imagine that thing being usable in 15 years, much less 50. And his out of pocket is and will be way above mine. He pays 6 months in insurance alone what I pay for a year in Maintenance fees. His start up price was nearly three times mine. Of course, he needs are different, and his goals are different.

When I bought in, I was making a choice between two options.

My brother has a trailer (re: motor home with no motor) in a campground in the woods. We hunt out of it sometimes, and he uses it as a weekend place for his family.

The space next to him opened up. It would have cost me $16,000 +/- for a new trailer and the rent on the spoit is $110 a month. These numbers are so close to the DVC that its scary. I looked at what he has to do to keep that trailer (winterize it, tank dumps, electric bills, water bills, upkeep, etc) and what he gets out of it (OK, he can use it 9 month out of the year, and its only an hours drive away). But that trailer is fast loosing its resale value.

I looked at the two options, thought about what was the better value and what I would really enjoy and bought 160 points at SSR. I am looking foward ot many years of "welcome homes". And, as odd as it sounds, I am looking foward to the time when my kids (6 and 8) turn 18 so I can put their names on the contract as well. I think its great that when dad is old and just wants to sit around and eat mush (or lives in FL) my kids can get a break on WDW vacations during their "starting out" years.


-dave

 

[MaxsDad]

And, as odd as it sounds, I am looking foward to the time when my kids (6 and 8) turn 18 so I can put their names on the contract as well.
-dave

Dave or anyone,

Do you know how easy/costly it is to add names onto the contract?

 

[Phonedave]

Dave or anyone,

Do you know how easy/costly it is to add names onto the contract?

I was told it was a simple matter to add/remove names - you can have up to three on a contract. The CM said just call member service and provide the info. I assume if a name is to be removed you need that persons consent, most likely in writing.

Adding names gets rid of all that probate and garbage if somone dies. I plan on adding my kids as soon as they turn 18.

-dave

 

[disbest]

Although some people don't look at it as a investment, but certain DVC (ie:BCV) actually appreciates in value. So if you decided to sell later you will be able to recover your costs as well as enjoy some profits. Just be careful because some DVC's decrease in value.

But we purchased because it truly is deluxe accomondations with a washer/dryer, kitchen and we frequent Disney annually. That is the biggest PRO.

Also, I tell everyone to purchase the DVC you plan to frequent the most. We have not had much luck with the 7 month window. DVC would rather rent the rooms rather than offer them to other DVC owners. Profits rulelol. On our last trip we were unable to get a reservation at the BWV even though we were placed on the waiting list 7 months prior to our trip yet I could rent a room at the BWV through Disney.

Look at each DVC resort individually and compare that resort to other time shares. Each resort has its own PROs and CONS. Some resorts have a lot more advantages than others. This is why there are differences in prices on the resale market.

 

[DVC Mike]

We have not had much luck with the 7 month window. DVC would rather rent the rooms rather than offer them to other DVC owners. Profits rulelol. On our last trip we were unable to get a reservation at the BWV even though we were placed on the waiting list 7 months prior to our trip yet I could rent a room at the BWV through Disney.

This is a common misconception. There are two sets of room inventories.

At the 7-month window, you are competing with the entire set of DVC owners to book a reservation. DVC owners can reserve the "declared" inventory. The “declared” inventory is the inventory that has been purchased by DVC members.

Non-DVC members who call Disney CRO to make a reservation are able to book the "undeclared" inventory. The "undeclared" inventory includes:

a) points that have not yet been purchased by members (including points Disney obtained by ROFR),
b) the ~2-4% of rooms required by state law for the developers to retain, or
c) has been deposited for cash conversion due to exchanges (Disney Cruise, Disney Collection, World Passport Collection).

Any "declared" inventory not reserved by members using points is turned over to CRO at the 60-day mark for cash reservations by the general public.

 

[disbest]

This is a common misconception. There are two sets of room inventories.

At the 7-month window, you are competing with the entire set of DVC owners to book a reservation. DVC owners can reserve the "declared" inventory. The “declared” inventory is the inventory that has been purchased by DVC members.

Non-DVC members who call Disney CRO to make a reservation are able to book the "undeclared" inventory. The "undeclared" inventory includes:

a) points that have not yet been purchased by members (including points Disney obtained by ROFR),
b) the ~2-4% of rooms required by state law for the developers to retain, or
c) has been deposited for cash conversion due to exchanges (Disney Cruise, Disney Collection, World Passport Collection).

Any "declared" inventory not reserved by members using points is turned over to CRO at the 60-day mark for cash reservations by the general public.

Thank you for the information.

So it seems that any inventory that is not owned by members is not available to members. So Disney can continue to increase non member inventory through ROFR if the the rental market becomes more profitable.

Do you know how much inventory is not available to DVC members at each of the DVC resorts? Also, do you know why DVC does not tell you where you are on the waiting list? This type of information would be valuable when planning a vacation. It is difficult to plan if you are uncertain which resort you have a reservation. If there are 100 people ahead of you on the list than you probably will not get a reservation.

This would explain why it is so difficult to book at the premiumn resorts such as BC and BWV. I would assume that fewer rooms are available to DVC members.

Now I am realizing that rental people have more opportunity to stay at various DVC resort than DVC members. Everytime I have been placed on a waiting list there has always been rentals available. You might say DVC owners are at a disadvantage in this case. Oops another con...:ROFLOL:

 

[DVC Mike]

Do you know how much inventory is not available to DVC members at each of the DVC resorts?

I believe this information is published every year. At OKW, Disney has a bunch of points. At BCV, they have very little. Disney would much rather sell the points to DVC members than try to rent them, as DVC sales are more profitable than renting the units. They are not holding on to them.

Also, do you know why DVC does not tell you where you are on the waiting list? This type of information would be valuable when planning a vacation. It is difficult to plan if you are uncertain which resort you have a reservation. If there are 100 people ahead of you on the list than you probably will not get a reservation.

They don't tell you because it would be difficult for them to. It's not just a simple list of names. It depends on what you are waiting for. If you are waitlisted for 5 days, and somebody after you is waitlisted for just 1 day, and that specific day opens up, the person who was waitlisted for just that day gets it. Since Disney has no idea of who is going to cancel and what dates may open up, it is impossible for them to say "you are #10 on this list".

This would explain why it is so difficult to book at the premiumn resorts such as BC and BWV. I would assume that fewer rooms are available to DVC members.

Actually, the reason is that BCV and BWV are popular resorts, largely because of their location. BCV is the second smallest resort, with only 208 rooms, compared to SSR with 828 rooms and OKW with 531 rooms. That is why SSR and OKW are usually the easist DVC resorts to book.

Now I am realizing that rental people have more opportunity to stay at various DVC resort than DVC members. Everytime I have been placed on a waiting list there has always been rentals available.

I think the reason that availability shows up via CRO is the high price of renting DVC villas via CRO. A lot of folks who waitlist get their request.

 

[Phonedave]

Now I am realizing that rental people have more opportunity to stay at various DVC resort than DVC members. Everytime I have been placed on a waiting list there has always been rentals available. You might say DVC owners are at a disadvantage in this case. Oops another con...:ROFLOL:

Not really. There are enough rooms to go around, and just enough, if that makes sense.

Each resort has so many points associated with it. DVC cannot sell more that that number of points.

Look at it this way. Lets say there is a new resort with 10 rooms total. (a small resort ) and the way the pricing on this resort works is each room is 1 point a night, no matter the season or day. There are 3,650 points available in that resort. Lets say 3 people buy into this resort for 365 points each. That represents 3 rooms "owned" for the entire year. Disney will allocate 3 rooms a day to the declared inventory and 7 per day to the undeclared. Now lets say it's a popular week. Two of the owners in this resort book, then a DVC member in another resort grabs the last delared room. Then you call. You are told sorry we are full, but there are still 7 rooms avaialble for cash rental. That is what is happening. As the resort sells out there will be less and less rooms in the undelared inventory. At full sale, with no ROFR points owned by Disney there will only be the 2-4% DVCMike mentioned left open for cash before the 60 day release point, unless owners start transfering points to cash equivalents or using points in other resorts.


This complicated mess is the (in my opinion, small) price you pay for the ability to have points that you use whenver you want (can) as opposed to having a set week as with other timeshares.



-dave

 

[disbest]

Thank you for the information DVC Mike. I learned more through this post about DVC than I did the past 4 years as a DVC member. This did clear up a lot of the confusion. Thank's again.

 

[jrobb]

Attn: DVC Mike:

My wife has 2 questions...

Her first question is, with dining deals, how does that affect the DVC because she likes how the dining deals work with the room reservations... can DVC members purchase/attach dining plan to the DVC reservations?

Her 2nd question is... can DVC save you money if you would normally stay during value season at value resorts? How long would it take to recoup the costs if this is the way you would normally stay (assuing the family is 5-7 people)?

Thanks.

Jason

 

[DisneyPhD]

My wife has 2 questions...

Her first question is, with dining deals, how does that affect the DVC because she likes how the dining deals work with the room reservations... can DVC members purchase/attach dining plan to the DVC reservations?

Her 2nd question is... can DVC save you money if you would normally stay during value season at value resorts? How long would it take to recoup the costs if this is the way you would normally stay (assuing the family is 5-7 people)?

Thanks.

Jason

Yes, DVC members can add the dining plan to a DVC reservation and do not have to purchase park tickets to do so.

DVC would take a long time to come out ahead vs. staying at value resorts. When you compare to staying at the deluxe resorts, it takes about 6 years until you start "saving" money. Longer for moderates and longer still for values. Your comparison is a little bit more complicated as you would need two value rooms to accomodate 5-7 people. You could do this with 2 DVC studios or 1 DVC 2-bedroom villa. You would still come out ahead, but would most likely take 10-15 years to do so vs. staying at a value resort. I'm sure DVCMIke can ellaborate.:wave:

 

[DVC Mike]

Her first question is, with dining deals, how does that affect the DVC because she likes how the dining deals work with the room reservations... can DVC members purchase/attach dining plan to the DVC reservations?

As DisneyPhD has said, you can purchase the DDP as a DVC member. You also get to take advantage of Magical Express and get all the benefits of staying at a Disney resort.

can DVC save you money if you would normally stay during value season at value resorts? How long would it take to recoup the costs if this is the way you would normally stay (assuing the family is 5-7 people)?

Recognizing that a value resort to DVC resort is an apples to oranges comparison (given room size, amenities, location, etc.), DVC does not compare well to staying at Value resorts like the All Star or Pop Century. If you're happy with Value resorts, I wouldn't recommend DVC. However, if you want bigger and better accomodations, than I would consider DVC.

 

[jrobb]

Thank you both for the prompt responses. I know that comparing value resorts to moderate or deluxe resorts is unfair, and then to compare them to DVC resorts is even more unfair... we've stayed in value resorts in the past and were not disappointed in them by any means, but as our family grows, I think we will outgrow them soon. We will be staying the AKL this December and will get a better feel for the larger resorts. If we decide that we cannot live without the amenities provided there, I think that will definately sway our decision towards DVC. We're pretty much sold on the idea... money is another story. Thanks again for the info. I'll pass it along to the wife.

Jason

 

[Phonedave]

Thank you both for the prompt responses. I know that comparing value resorts to moderate or deluxe resorts is unfair, and then to compare them to DVC resorts is even more unfair... we've stayed in value resorts in the past and were not disappointed in them by any means, but as our family grows, I think we will outgrow them soon. We will be staying the AKL this December and will get a better feel for the larger resorts. If we decide that we cannot live without the amenities provided there, I think that will definately sway our decision towards DVC. We're pretty much sold on the idea... money is another story. Thanks again for the info. I'll pass it along to the wife.

Jason

Something else to consider. You really do not realize just how nice it is to have a washer / dryer in the suite until you actualy have one. Is that alone worth the price of a DVC membership - no But don't discount it.

-dave