This park will likely be a never ending construction site bc after LK its very likely we get Avatar which is another 4+ years, and that's assuming that nothing else new happens
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Transformative Multi-Year Expansion Announced for WDS Paris
- Thread starter Jwhee
- Start date
The point is walls on day one. Especially on the main entrance drag. Not great show.
Jury is still out on Avatar.
Pizza Moon
Well-Known Member
Obviously what we’ll have is pretty, but IDK guys, after waiting this long (I mean Frozen was supposed to open what 2021?), and with the amount of money thrown at it, we’re getting a C-ticket, and a couple flat rides, in a park that has less E-tickets than Animal Kingdom despite having zero of its thematic design and expansive areas to explore.
The park is also still a hodgepodge.
Just leaving Toon Studio as-is with just a name change is, also, a choice.
At least it’ll actually feel like a park now though.
Again, not complaining in that it’s leagues better still, but it feels very similar to opening Galaxy’s Edge without Rise, and until LK opens in 2.5ish years, it’s going to feel very underutilized, way too long after already waiting on this phase 1 expansion. I don’t think it’ll fail, it sets the park up long-term, but they are definitely sleeping on potential money that could be made with a better product.
Ironically, parks like EPCOT and HWS could use a couple of flat rides, but this park has 4 and is adding 2.
The park is also still a hodgepodge.
Just leaving Toon Studio as-is with just a name change is, also, a choice.
At least it’ll actually feel like a park now though.
Again, not complaining in that it’s leagues better still, but it feels very similar to opening Galaxy’s Edge without Rise, and until LK opens in 2.5ish years, it’s going to feel very underutilized, way too long after already waiting on this phase 1 expansion. I don’t think it’ll fail, it sets the park up long-term, but they are definitely sleeping on potential money that could be made with a better product.
Ironically, parks like EPCOT and HWS could use a couple of flat rides, but this park has 4 and is adding 2.
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Pizza Moon
Well-Known Member
Is this number still accurate, and does it include Lion King?
I just don’t get where it went. The opportunity costs are crazy.
I've read in the French forum/discord that Worlds of Pixar is being remodelled next with the big refurbishment for Crush Coaster, changements to the façade to remove the studio 5, new floors in the area and changing the horrible Pixar background in the meet and greet area. They are also taking advantage of the changes to Animation Celebration to do the works. This should be done for the 35 anniversary next year.
I think most people will consider Frozen and Ratatouille as E-tickets. There's no official classification for that ranking, so it's something quite subjective. Tower of terror and Flight Force are also considered E-tickets for lots of people. Disney Adventure World has more shows than Animal Kingdom on the other side. Not everything in a park has to be a huge modern ride.
Disney Adventure World has more or less the same number of flat rides than Disney California Adventure or DisneySea. While I agree that the park needs more big attractions, the addition of the new flat rides is not a problem.Ironically, parks like EPCOT and HWS could use a couple of flat rides, but this park has 4 and is adding 2.
For me, these changes to the park are massively positive, and they are already working on the Lion King area and most likely designing the next land after that (Avatar being the most discussed). I understand the frustration for Disney being slow, but after so many years of nothing happening in Paris, it's impressive all the things they are doing now. Appart from this park, they are redoing most buildings in the castle park, fully changing the Disney Village and refurbishing the hotels. While not perfect, I think Disneyland Paris has never been at a better place than now.
cjkeating
Well-Known Member
Lion King is included in the original figure as it is the Galaxy's Edge-Lite replacement.
The 2 billion Euro number when announced was a bit of a catch all for any 'investment' that was going into the resort so has not all been spent in WDSP. I don't know where the exact line is between what it has or hasn't funded but I expect projects across the resort that is new as opposed to refubishment. Certainly includes Disney Village Phase 1.
Pizza Moon
Well-Known Member
Imagine if they plopped the Ariel miniland at MK at the back of World Showcase with a quick-service restaurant. What would the reactions on here be?
Hopefully they’ll make the area around Crush’s Coaster into a Finding Nemo mini-land like Toy Story and Ratatouille are, would really make the area feel intentional. I wouldn’t have a problem with that!
Tower of Terror is absolutely a bonafide E. I’d say Crush, Ratatouille and Flight Force are too, though in Crush’s case it’s probably the most D-ticket of the bunch, though it’s so well executed kind of like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train for what it’s going for that it elevates it a lot, in the same way Frozen and Tiana are hurt by their issues (even if there are good elements).
Animal Kingdom is frequently defended as not being about rides (always a lazy response, as the park was budget cut at opening and Dinosaur never was what it was even supposed to be), but it has Expedition Everest, Flight of Passage, Kilimanjaro Safaris, and Dinosaur. Even dropping Dinosaur I’d take those 3 any day over the top three at Disney Adventure World, even if you pretend it’s February 2nd and closed, or comparing top 5s if you include Frozen, and the parks didn’t open far apart.
I’ve always made that criticism to Animal Kingdom regarding Tokyo DisneySea. I adore the park, it needs appreciation more, infinitely better than say today’s Hollywood Studios, but man, when you go to Tokyo, you realize just what we “could’ve” had with AK. I mean truly, in another world, we’d have either gotten Indiana Jones itself like Tokyo or an actually well-executed Dinosaur, more fleshed out rides where you don’t need to add cheap capacity like Chester & Hester’s, scale and theming so large, expansive, and vast, you can just explore everything and it seems endless at Sea. So many restaurants, so many shops to explore, at a scale that seems impossible, I mean it’s nestled next to the ocean and they made it look like the park is connected from many angles: it is genuinely extraordinary.
It is truly what makes it in my opinion, one of the Greatest Wonders of the Modern World. AK does some things uniquely that are so well executed like the Safaris, walkthroughs, or the entire tone of the park consistently being about nature over man and conservation, and it’s serious tone, that just ties it all together in an elite way, but it’s less about the scale of the builds and more about the execution by Rhode and his team. You walk around the Asia land and it’s just nuts, but walk around American Waterfront and the scale of everything is so much bigger and endless and then you realize there’s like double the lands and rides too
Disney Adventure World has always been about rides and nothing else. It’s desperately needed TLC, and has gotten it throughout most of the park, but what was there was so weak it’s still instantly the worse park in thematic design Disney or Universal have ever done, and probably the worst “theme park” in Europe. Though at least in DAW’s case, they didn’t have 30 years like USF did to only now finally be getting fixed, and Lion King will be what Frozen should’ve, and I expect guest feedback to reflect that in a few years for broad demographics.
Frozen is an important ride, no height requirement, indoor dark ride, a boat ride, designed for younger audiences in mind, for the park, it’s a key player in the demos. That capacity is going to be a problem, particularly if the expectation is you doubled the size of a park… for it: imagine rope dropping Ever After running all the way to the back of the park, and then you’re in the back of the park in a small area. I’d have been very mad if I was led to believe I’d have a Flight of Passage or Rise level experience. I remember feeling that way when I did Falcon before Rise opened. While it was so cool to go opening weekend, you just got the sense that it was… not up to expectations. Frozen is so huge of an IP that unless you can see the ride itself you’re going to think it’s going to be more like Pirates since it got an entire land on top of doubling the park size, so a lot of people are going to go in blind expecting more. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s hard not to feel this way. If it was added to Fantasyland at DLP, it would still be a mistake, but at least tonay it would feel more natural like Hong Kong Disneyland’s does. The Sleigh ride is a flop, Ever After is still undercooked, but it really is like building Villains Land with a C-ticket.
Imagine if Tower of Terror at Hollywood Studios was a C-ticket, how ridiculous would that be seeing a massive structure only for it to be, very basic.
It’s the same reason why the Indiana Jones Coaster will never be as good as Indiana Jones Adventure. Even if you enjoy it, even if you prefer coasters, Indiana Jones is a headlining E, one of the best ever, while the coaster is a C, D at best, but I’d call it a C.
While it boosted the park when it was built, and I actually enjoy it for what it is, they didn’t go and build an entire land around it, they just added onto the park. It would have been much bigger if they put Indy, and the thing is you do rides like that right and they exponentially pay off returns over time. There’s a reason why Tokyo dropped billions on a land at what was already the best park ever, not because OLC loves their guests (I do think they do tho lol), but because it makes financial sense, and long-term it just compounds. You have to replace bad areas like Dinoland, you don’t replace Mysterious Island ever, just like you won’t be replacing Pandora anytime soon. Perfect example: Disney reworking Galaxy’s Edge and cancelling the Paris plans is a reason why you do it right the first time, and that’s even with a land that is still very impressive theming wise, just flawed execution. The Frozen land is certainly likely to be here in 30 years. I could see them replacing the ride but keeping the land, but I doubt they’ll ever touch the land.
It is highly unusual for something like Lost Continent to be replaced particularly in a park with lesser themed areas, but in that case it was genuinely because the attractions were weaker than the land: that could happen here.
I am not saying it will fail, and I don’t even hate the ride, I hate aspects but I love parts so it’s enjoyable overall, but I am saying for the amount they are spending, fan expectations around such a mega project, and just looking at Frozen Journey, we clearly got shafted.
I guess the question should be, is Slinky Dog Dash an E-ticket because it’s the most popular ride in terms of wait time at Disney World, is it comparable to a ride like Flight of Passage or Rise, and is Shanghai Pirates (despite being the most expensive ride ever at the time), not an E-ticket because it’s frequently at or below 15 minutes while its Pooh ride (MK’s clone) can easily hit 30 on those same days…
E-ticket classification is not what it once was, it’s about scale now, it goes beyond just popularity, this is well known at this point, though I do understand your angle and understand the context you’re angling for
They do seem to be treating it as an anchor attraction though which is genuinely absurd. Frozen Journey in Tokyo is an E-ticket, if they are the same, we’ve lost the plot.
California Adventure has always had far too many flat rides, as a holdover from its cheaper days and when they needed a capacity injection with “A Bug’s Land…” which they ofc moved Flick’s Fliars to Pixar Pier. I actually think for the vibes DCA is going for, it works, but that park also ironically needs another roller coaster (same with Sea), and isn’t a good example.
Adventure Way sort of has that park vibe that is reminiscent of something you’d see outside Disney and they’re both whimsical takes: no issues there, specifically.
But when you contextualize that with the rest of the park, with how scantily clad the theming is, and knowing that the park does need more actual rides: Es, Ds, Cs, I don’t think “I need flat rides” when I think of the park. I think of it needing to tear down the Aladdin spinner and to retheme the Cars one to Finding Nemo.
EPCOT could use a carousel in the UK, perhaps a flat ride for kids that expands the Test Track pavilion, toss in a maze next to the Land. Epic Universe could use swings in celestial Park like the Up one coming to Paris. Hollywood Studios should’ve cloned and made RC Racer dueling in Orlando, even toss in a spinner. MK needs a non-spinner flat ride. I mean, Toy Story Mania would’ve made more sense than 2 more flat rides (or the Spider-Man ride for that matter… ROI is pathetic compared to TSM). That was my point. Animal Kingdom is getting what it needs: an indoor actual E-ticket scaled dark ride with zero height requirement, and an overhaul of the park’s weakest E-ticket that literally has the same layout as one of the best rides ever made. I’d add a log flume water ride… Lion King logically (honestly Toy Story Lincoln Logs at HWS would be great too), next, but it needed more indoor rides, and now it has as much as Islands of Adventure (which obviously has problems on rainy days, AK does too in terms of things to do). Frozen boat ride—perfect in that regard, scale—not at all.
A frozen ride with double the capacity, ride time, scale, and wicked execution would mean you don’t need to add two new flat rides… it definitely would cost more to do it that way, but you do know what I mean.
The marketing, word of mouth, and staying power means you’ll always leave money on the table in the same way Galaxy’s Edge not having a better design AND sidestepping all previous 6 Star Wars Saga movies made it always underperform compared to internal projections. And those projections weren’t wrong, there was such an insane ROI potential that they decided they were too stubborn to reap the rewards from because it would admit mistakes were made. That’s why it’s happening in 2026. In sure the numbers internally do not lie.
But too many things are remaining borderline untouched (Pixar), the 3 newest rides in a row will all be weaker than they should’ve been, and that’s not to say I think Flight Force is better than RNRC, it is, but it also could’ve had more set pieces and a purpose like the original Spider-Man concept for the retheme.
Mermaid to me is very similar to Frozen, half-baked execution with good moments, but it’s always walk-on in California, and it’s not just because of the omnimover system, it’s because it’s just okay so demand will never be there like it would’ve if you made Ariel like the original concept where it was like Peter Pan’s Flight on a much larger scale and would go above and below water: that concept would’ve been genuinely timeless and iconic, and it will always be a missed opportunity for a beloved movie, and I guarantee you if you had equal capacity it wouldn’t had much lower waits like their other really good newer rides RSR and M:B have had versus Spider-Man: Web Slingers.
The land was also going to be Brooklyn I believe which if they made the area around Tower of Terror like Buenavista Street at California Adventure by building actual physical structures. Simply adding Toy Story Mania and putting the difference in the Spider-Man ride money into the RNRC retheme. I say that while liking the Spider-Man ride, as it is fun and an improvement over Armageddon, but I’m framing this reply in terms of opportunity costs; like the original WDSP opened weaker than it should have, this redo feels so similar, yet the budget is what, like 4x the original park budget?
The park needed a Fantasy Springs in addition to anchor it all particularly because there’s nothing in the park on that caliber anywhere, to a DCA style makeover of the existing park. Theyre getting that long-term with Adventure Way, but there’s nothing overarching logic behind anything. There is a clear purpose at EPCOT why the World Showcase is what it is even stepping away from the World’s Fair concept. Islands of Adventure isn’t perfect, but I think outside of night show viewing spots, it also feels more, organic with you crosses bridges to each land, cheaper than going full-on DLP, and without the genius portal concept of Epix Universe.
This park is basically a bunch of mini-parks. Hollywood Studios, but at least Monstropolis will open by 2028, if Pandora happens that would be like 2031 or beyond lol, and they’d still need to add another ride somewhere else in the park, just to give it Hollywood Studios vibes, and even then, the front of the park is still so weak, where as at HWS, the Hollywood/Sunset and Echo Lake areas are actually genuinely nice to hangout in. I do hope to stress that it’s night and day still, but I think that is more a testament that the park was a disaster over anything.
The new landscaping and sidewalks are game changers, but still, it is the easiest route. Would’ve loved to have seen them plop down Soarin’ like they were at one time. It’s like if they announced this park (including Lion King) to open tomorrow, it would literally be a joke and mocked by people when compared to like Epic Universe.
If true, game changer. I’m shocked. Tomorrow I hope to hear DLP gets a ride too
Hopefully they’ll make the area around Crush’s Coaster into a Finding Nemo mini-land like Toy Story and Ratatouille are, would really make the area feel intentional. I wouldn’t have a problem with that!
In terms of “popularity” sure, but for scale it’s a D at best, arguably a C with how weak the story is “Yay, happy, smile, YAYAYAY,” and a heavily flawed one at that, and that goes for Hong Kong’s version too. People can always fairly critique EPCOT’s for being a shoehorn, but then to shoehorn they ride elsehwhere?
Tower of Terror is absolutely a bonafide E. I’d say Crush, Ratatouille and Flight Force are too, though in Crush’s case it’s probably the most D-ticket of the bunch, though it’s so well executed kind of like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train for what it’s going for that it elevates it a lot, in the same way Frozen and Tiana are hurt by their issues (even if there are good elements).
Animal Kingdom is frequently defended as not being about rides (always a lazy response, as the park was budget cut at opening and Dinosaur never was what it was even supposed to be), but it has Expedition Everest, Flight of Passage, Kilimanjaro Safaris, and Dinosaur. Even dropping Dinosaur I’d take those 3 any day over the top three at Disney Adventure World, even if you pretend it’s February 2nd and closed, or comparing top 5s if you include Frozen, and the parks didn’t open far apart.
I’ve always made that criticism to Animal Kingdom regarding Tokyo DisneySea. I adore the park, it needs appreciation more, infinitely better than say today’s Hollywood Studios, but man, when you go to Tokyo, you realize just what we “could’ve” had with AK. I mean truly, in another world, we’d have either gotten Indiana Jones itself like Tokyo or an actually well-executed Dinosaur, more fleshed out rides where you don’t need to add cheap capacity like Chester & Hester’s, scale and theming so large, expansive, and vast, you can just explore everything and it seems endless at Sea. So many restaurants, so many shops to explore, at a scale that seems impossible, I mean it’s nestled next to the ocean and they made it look like the park is connected from many angles: it is genuinely extraordinary.
It is truly what makes it in my opinion, one of the Greatest Wonders of the Modern World. AK does some things uniquely that are so well executed like the Safaris, walkthroughs, or the entire tone of the park consistently being about nature over man and conservation, and it’s serious tone, that just ties it all together in an elite way, but it’s less about the scale of the builds and more about the execution by Rhode and his team. You walk around the Asia land and it’s just nuts, but walk around American Waterfront and the scale of everything is so much bigger and endless and then you realize there’s like double the lands and rides too
Disney Adventure World has always been about rides and nothing else. It’s desperately needed TLC, and has gotten it throughout most of the park, but what was there was so weak it’s still instantly the worse park in thematic design Disney or Universal have ever done, and probably the worst “theme park” in Europe. Though at least in DAW’s case, they didn’t have 30 years like USF did to only now finally be getting fixed, and Lion King will be what Frozen should’ve, and I expect guest feedback to reflect that in a few years for broad demographics.
Frozen is an important ride, no height requirement, indoor dark ride, a boat ride, designed for younger audiences in mind, for the park, it’s a key player in the demos. That capacity is going to be a problem, particularly if the expectation is you doubled the size of a park… for it: imagine rope dropping Ever After running all the way to the back of the park, and then you’re in the back of the park in a small area. I’d have been very mad if I was led to believe I’d have a Flight of Passage or Rise level experience. I remember feeling that way when I did Falcon before Rise opened. While it was so cool to go opening weekend, you just got the sense that it was… not up to expectations. Frozen is so huge of an IP that unless you can see the ride itself you’re going to think it’s going to be more like Pirates since it got an entire land on top of doubling the park size, so a lot of people are going to go in blind expecting more. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s hard not to feel this way. If it was added to Fantasyland at DLP, it would still be a mistake, but at least tonay it would feel more natural like Hong Kong Disneyland’s does. The Sleigh ride is a flop, Ever After is still undercooked, but it really is like building Villains Land with a C-ticket.
Imagine if Tower of Terror at Hollywood Studios was a C-ticket, how ridiculous would that be seeing a massive structure only for it to be, very basic.
It’s the same reason why the Indiana Jones Coaster will never be as good as Indiana Jones Adventure. Even if you enjoy it, even if you prefer coasters, Indiana Jones is a headlining E, one of the best ever, while the coaster is a C, D at best, but I’d call it a C.
While it boosted the park when it was built, and I actually enjoy it for what it is, they didn’t go and build an entire land around it, they just added onto the park. It would have been much bigger if they put Indy, and the thing is you do rides like that right and they exponentially pay off returns over time. There’s a reason why Tokyo dropped billions on a land at what was already the best park ever, not because OLC loves their guests (I do think they do tho lol), but because it makes financial sense, and long-term it just compounds. You have to replace bad areas like Dinoland, you don’t replace Mysterious Island ever, just like you won’t be replacing Pandora anytime soon. Perfect example: Disney reworking Galaxy’s Edge and cancelling the Paris plans is a reason why you do it right the first time, and that’s even with a land that is still very impressive theming wise, just flawed execution. The Frozen land is certainly likely to be here in 30 years. I could see them replacing the ride but keeping the land, but I doubt they’ll ever touch the land.
It is highly unusual for something like Lost Continent to be replaced particularly in a park with lesser themed areas, but in that case it was genuinely because the attractions were weaker than the land: that could happen here.
I am not saying it will fail, and I don’t even hate the ride, I hate aspects but I love parts so it’s enjoyable overall, but I am saying for the amount they are spending, fan expectations around such a mega project, and just looking at Frozen Journey, we clearly got shafted.
I guess the question should be, is Slinky Dog Dash an E-ticket because it’s the most popular ride in terms of wait time at Disney World, is it comparable to a ride like Flight of Passage or Rise, and is Shanghai Pirates (despite being the most expensive ride ever at the time), not an E-ticket because it’s frequently at or below 15 minutes while its Pooh ride (MK’s clone) can easily hit 30 on those same days…
E-ticket classification is not what it once was, it’s about scale now, it goes beyond just popularity, this is well known at this point, though I do understand your angle and understand the context you’re angling for
They do seem to be treating it as an anchor attraction though which is genuinely absurd. Frozen Journey in Tokyo is an E-ticket, if they are the same, we’ve lost the plot.
DisneySea has a perfect amount of flat rides, but it also is a park that is the most impressively scaled on Earth, and easily had the best ride line-up of any non-Castle Disney Park, easily, unless you want roller coasters, so it makes sense. There’s like what 8 lands and multiple like American Waterfront are basically 3, it feels balanced.
California Adventure has always had far too many flat rides, as a holdover from its cheaper days and when they needed a capacity injection with “A Bug’s Land…” which they ofc moved Flick’s Fliars to Pixar Pier. I actually think for the vibes DCA is going for, it works, but that park also ironically needs another roller coaster (same with Sea), and isn’t a good example.
Adventure Way sort of has that park vibe that is reminiscent of something you’d see outside Disney and they’re both whimsical takes: no issues there, specifically.
But when you contextualize that with the rest of the park, with how scantily clad the theming is, and knowing that the park does need more actual rides: Es, Ds, Cs, I don’t think “I need flat rides” when I think of the park. I think of it needing to tear down the Aladdin spinner and to retheme the Cars one to Finding Nemo.
EPCOT could use a carousel in the UK, perhaps a flat ride for kids that expands the Test Track pavilion, toss in a maze next to the Land. Epic Universe could use swings in celestial Park like the Up one coming to Paris. Hollywood Studios should’ve cloned and made RC Racer dueling in Orlando, even toss in a spinner. MK needs a non-spinner flat ride. I mean, Toy Story Mania would’ve made more sense than 2 more flat rides (or the Spider-Man ride for that matter… ROI is pathetic compared to TSM). That was my point. Animal Kingdom is getting what it needs: an indoor actual E-ticket scaled dark ride with zero height requirement, and an overhaul of the park’s weakest E-ticket that literally has the same layout as one of the best rides ever made. I’d add a log flume water ride… Lion King logically (honestly Toy Story Lincoln Logs at HWS would be great too), next, but it needed more indoor rides, and now it has as much as Islands of Adventure (which obviously has problems on rainy days, AK does too in terms of things to do). Frozen boat ride—perfect in that regard, scale—not at all.
A frozen ride with double the capacity, ride time, scale, and wicked execution would mean you don’t need to add two new flat rides… it definitely would cost more to do it that way, but you do know what I mean.
The marketing, word of mouth, and staying power means you’ll always leave money on the table in the same way Galaxy’s Edge not having a better design AND sidestepping all previous 6 Star Wars Saga movies made it always underperform compared to internal projections. And those projections weren’t wrong, there was such an insane ROI potential that they decided they were too stubborn to reap the rewards from because it would admit mistakes were made. That’s why it’s happening in 2026. In sure the numbers internally do not lie.
Totally agreed. I can’t think of a single net negative in the park besides losing Lights Motors Action (until it is replaced by I assume an Avengers E-ticket?)
But too many things are remaining borderline untouched (Pixar), the 3 newest rides in a row will all be weaker than they should’ve been, and that’s not to say I think Flight Force is better than RNRC, it is, but it also could’ve had more set pieces and a purpose like the original Spider-Man concept for the retheme.
Mermaid to me is very similar to Frozen, half-baked execution with good moments, but it’s always walk-on in California, and it’s not just because of the omnimover system, it’s because it’s just okay so demand will never be there like it would’ve if you made Ariel like the original concept where it was like Peter Pan’s Flight on a much larger scale and would go above and below water: that concept would’ve been genuinely timeless and iconic, and it will always be a missed opportunity for a beloved movie, and I guarantee you if you had equal capacity it wouldn’t had much lower waits like their other really good newer rides RSR and M:B have had versus Spider-Man: Web Slingers.
The land was also going to be Brooklyn I believe which if they made the area around Tower of Terror like Buenavista Street at California Adventure by building actual physical structures. Simply adding Toy Story Mania and putting the difference in the Spider-Man ride money into the RNRC retheme. I say that while liking the Spider-Man ride, as it is fun and an improvement over Armageddon, but I’m framing this reply in terms of opportunity costs; like the original WDSP opened weaker than it should have, this redo feels so similar, yet the budget is what, like 4x the original park budget?
The park needed a Fantasy Springs in addition to anchor it all particularly because there’s nothing in the park on that caliber anywhere, to a DCA style makeover of the existing park. Theyre getting that long-term with Adventure Way, but there’s nothing overarching logic behind anything. There is a clear purpose at EPCOT why the World Showcase is what it is even stepping away from the World’s Fair concept. Islands of Adventure isn’t perfect, but I think outside of night show viewing spots, it also feels more, organic with you crosses bridges to each land, cheaper than going full-on DLP, and without the genius portal concept of Epix Universe.
This park is basically a bunch of mini-parks. Hollywood Studios, but at least Monstropolis will open by 2028, if Pandora happens that would be like 2031 or beyond lol, and they’d still need to add another ride somewhere else in the park, just to give it Hollywood Studios vibes, and even then, the front of the park is still so weak, where as at HWS, the Hollywood/Sunset and Echo Lake areas are actually genuinely nice to hangout in. I do hope to stress that it’s night and day still, but I think that is more a testament that the park was a disaster over anything.
The new landscaping and sidewalks are game changers, but still, it is the easiest route. Would’ve loved to have seen them plop down Soarin’ like they were at one time. It’s like if they announced this park (including Lion King) to open tomorrow, it would literally be a joke and mocked by people when compared to like Epic Universe.
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nickys
Premium Member
I disagree.
The shows are better than any other in-park shows.
And there will now be a night-time show on the lake.
The expansion is much needed. And there needs to be more planned. I wish they’d do something spectacular in the arena, for example, but the park is not just about rides.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Potentially hot takes… Fantasy Springs as a land isn’t that competent. Arrendelle, at least as far as the HKDL package is concerned, I prefer greatly over the Fantasy Springs Frozen offering. FEA is miles better than mermaid and a flushed out new build improves the experience.
All new Fantasyland and Fantasy Springs are - are ride facades. It’s poor land design. This is much better.
All new Fantasyland and Fantasy Springs are - are ride facades. It’s poor land design. This is much better.
Pizza Moon
Well-Known Member
Okay I take that back, shows too, but if we decide to factor in this, is Festival of the Lion King, Finding Nemo, and Feathered Friends in Flight, not at least pretty comparable with what DAW has now?
I think it would negligibly move the needle at best, so I think the point I was trying to make is actually bolstered.
My point is that AK is frequently correctly cited as being both: about so much more than just rides, and also correctly cited as needing way more rides.
Beyond the goated theming everywhere that you should spend extra time walking slowly, soaking up, or even taking the time to look at every detail, the park does have tons of animal exhibits and trails.
This is also a reason I dislike today’s Hollywood Studios is that even though the ride line-up is killer in a way AK and DAW aren’t, it’s so top-heavy with crazy lines that you find yourself queuing all day, and unlike a park like Epic Universe, it just isn’t a park with tons of things to explore—sure there’s shows but it’s not enough as real-world wait times show.
As a local, HWS makes sense to really visit as a partial day or paired with EPCOT and planning strategically to time queues with lower waits, and I think DAW will remain similar with DLP where the locals might hop over for a couple rides and fireworks, until Lion King at least. I mean, Cars Land is actually flawless, it was able to successfully transform California Adventure: obviously that park was better than what DAW started with for the redo, but the new build, Frozen, should be Radiator Springs Racers level. This expansion is $2,500,000,000+.
Disney Adventure World (still getting used to the new name LMAO), has always been about covering your eyes and running from attraction to attraction, and it still will be, but at least the park will generally be pleasant and solid, with Frozen looking beautiful. Idk, the French deserve more, they have kept getting screwed for so long, it’s time they actually get some respect.
One random tidbit, they’re clearly copying Europa Park in the way it feels like an actual park and has so many smaller scale rides.
But notably, it also has world-class rollercoasters and theming (it’s about Europe’s counties) so impressive, some countries look better than EPCOT pavilions. If you haven’t I’d check out a walkthrough on YouTube. It is arguably only comparable to Disneyland Park in terms of attractions while also being a stunning.
Both DAW and AK are half-day parks if you just do rides. You go to Disneyland Park and good luck doing half just because of sheer quantity, and you need multiple days for the average park guest to do it right, where as a lot of guests will just park hop.
Again, DAW has zero cover like AK has had over the park’s theming quality and overall design. I’d love to see an Avengers E-ticket, Finding Nemo miniland, Soarin’, and Toy Story Mania! After Lion King honestly before they finish with the third land.
Do that and the park will still feel weird and not ideal, I mean HWS has this issue just not as bad, but DAW would finally be a theme park worthy of the Disney branding.
nickys
Premium Member
I can’t comment as to Tokyo and HK, but totally agree that ride facades alone don’t make for good land design.
For me, Harambe in AK is an example of the best thematic land design.
Diagon Alley Hogsmeade are detailed and feel immersive.
None of those rely on facade alone.
nickys
Premium Member
Nowhere near, imo. DLP shows are way better than anything at WDW, with a possible exception of Indy. It may be “same old” for frequent guests, but it’s a great spectacle.
I hoped that the move of the former DLP show designer would bring WDW shows up a notch or two, but so far it seems his talent is being squandered.
Pizza Moon
Well-Known Member
Eh, I’m more referring to the fact Fantasy Springs spent serious money on high-quality groundbreaking rides and expansive and very large scale theming, and an attempt at an overarching thematic integrity even if it’s not perfect, rides that a park like DAW needs exponentially more than Frozen: Ever After.
Plop in the Tangled mini-land and its excellent D-ticket, and say have Frozen’s land exactly as it is in Paris but with the Frozen Journey E-ticket instead, perhaps with an expansion pad ready for a Seven Dwarfs Mine Train “Frozen” clone, and immediately opening this entire expansion would feel so cathartic. I guess what I’m saying is, if you told me that in 2026 the land they were getting was Galaxy’s Edge scaled, I’d be like, I’m booking a trip. Now it’s like, until Lion King, unless I just happen to be in Paris, it’s like, I definitely am not changing plans for the expansion, though I’m glad it just doesn’t feel like a parking lot anymore. The park should have a great future long-term.
Would’ve been nice if Adventure Way had more theming around the lake in a way that could make it feel more organic and not just like you’re walking around Epic’s Fountain pad with a bunch of Disney Animation IP around, but I guess HWS will go from Pixar to Star Wars to Pixar, so I guess we just have to accept the Hollywood parks as being a mess forever. I mean California Adventure has sort of become one too, but all the expansions are more organically integrated into the park existing layout, with only Avatar really doing its own thing Fantasy Springs or Galaxy’s Edge style.
I’m definitely not saying the new land coming to DAW needed to be, you know, Pandora level thematic cohesion, we didn’t need a film set-like Orlando Star Tours style Frozen land, we wanted an immersive one, but the way Adventure Way is setup around the lake AND the pathway, and then to have it all be anchored by a concerningly weak ride with bad capacity, is short sighted and leaving money on the table.
Pizza Moon
Well-Known Member
I never implied that? Don’t know where you got this take from.
Rise’s facade sucks and makes the land’s design worse, but I wouldn’t say that that was the make or break for the land, if you read my other reply you might get better context for what I’m talking about.
A Frozen miniland at Paris with a C-ticket basically compared to 3 minilands with 2 Es (one a headliner), a D, and a B?
And on top of it Fantasy Springs attempted, even if it’s not New Fantasyland level, to have some amount of design harmony in the interconnecting pathways/aspects of the land, and sticking to Walt Disney Animation only for both lands (tho is that really worse, I mean, MK could’ve happily used some E-tickets…), also lends credence. Clearly Lion King was not planned originally for the slot it’s going in, but I do find it ludicrous they a brand new purpose built lake is going for that generic of an approach.
The park will be greatly improved by the whole project though, and even though it’s easily the worst Disney park I’ve loved spending time there, it feels more like a mega land to DLP than its own park and treating it as such helps make up for the way DLP lacks a strong Castle park ride line-up, despite it still being better than basically every non-Castle park lol.
Agree on all those lands they are awesome.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t find the current buildout timeframe inspiring. But I do see the end point, which includes hopefully a Pandora mini product on the level of what DCA is getting as better in the grand scheme than Fantasy Springs. Which also weirdly took 10-11 years from when they first started publicly bandying it about.
It’s that final product on the medium horizon that I think finally makes DAW a good and competent park.
I’ve previously commented that I find the lake much better executed already, even without anything around it, than Epic. Which is extremely inorganic. WDI doesn’t build enough water features, but they know how to make them look real. The Epic take are pools with rock work glued on. The landscaping even in an incomplete form is already better than the long term prospects for the Epic central spine.
Internally FEA is a D.
cjkeating
Well-Known Member
I've said this before but I'd like them to remove the Magic Carpets and use the area as more aesthetically pleasing queue line for Crush. And I think there'd be room for a better Pixar meet and greet area than what currently exists.
I half agree/disagree however I think what you need to consider is where does this fit in the line up of Disneyland Paris attractions? Unless someone can correct me the park hasn't had a new Walt Disney Animations Studio dark ride since... the park opened. The WDAS studio comparators are all the classic Fantasyland dark rides. If you compare Frozen to the Pixar/Marvel equivalents in the park - Buzz, Rat, Spiderman - I think the target audience for Frozen will find the ride to be as good if not better than those.In terms of “popularity” sure, but for scale it’s a D at best, arguably a C with how weak the story is “Yay, happy, smile, YAYAYAY,” and a heavily flawed one at that, and that goes for Hong Kong’s version too. People can always fairly critique EPCOT’s for being a shoehorn, but then to shoehorn they ride elsehwhere?
I was unimpressed with Fantasy Springs as well. I admit I am not the target audience for it so I just ended up treating it all as a one and done but compared to Tokyo DisneySea it felt like someone had taken a masterpiece and made it a bit bigger by stapling a few post it notes to one corner of it.
I also think at HKDL the Frozen area felt too cramped which should be resolved by the placement of DAWs around the lake. I am also probably in a minority who don't think there is a huge gulf between the two Frozen rides. Some people treat it as a C to F ticket gap. Whereas I find it more a D to E gap. Comparing HKDL (not Epcot version) to Tokyo.