DAK “Zootopia” is being created for the Tree of Life theater

[lazyboy97o]

The Little Mermaid is a successful attraction

The one they ended up spending an extra 50% trying to fix?

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

The one they ended up spending an extra 50% trying to fix?

I feel like that better proves it was technically successful if they thought it was worth enough to dump back money in it already.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The Little Mermaid is a successful attraction

Plastic fish glued to the wall? Disjointed story-telling? No one queuing up to see it?

It was successful when it was new and Ariel was a main IP. Now that people know what it is, they avoid it.

That was ITtbaB's fate. Maybe so, too, for Zoogether. Disney better start dreaming up what to replace Zoogether with a few years from now.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I’m not sure what the rationale for the IP mandate is. I guess to sell more merch although I would think a popular theme like space, pirates, etc. would also sell merch.

It's like you're in Walt's head!!!...

 

[flynnibus]

The one they ended up spending an extra 50% trying to fix?

Still anchors NFL in Florida.. doesn't sit empty.. still attracts thousands of riders.. still can push out long LL return times.. still can avg nearly 30min waits for a omnimover.. still anchors a top princess in the park. What more do you want?

At DCA the waits can be even more.. I know.. I was stuck in 'em!

 

[flynnibus]

It was successful when it was new and Ariel was a main IP. Now that people know what it is, they avoid it.

Sorry, the ops data simply doesn't agree with you.

Current situation at DCA...

Must really be empty for a 45min wait...

 

[Trauma]

No clearer example than Frozen from Malesteom. No one here is gonna pretend that Maelstrom even gets close to as popular of a line as Frozen did

Frozen is a much better ride than Malesteom.

Independent of the IP.

It would make sense that the better the ride the more people in line.

 

[FettFan]

They could put a Goofy Movie attraction inside the Tree of Life and it would make about the same amount of sense "BeCaUsE ThEy'Re AniMaLs!"

Better yet:

 

[DisneyHead123]

The Little Mermaid is a successful attraction

Ones like Monsters and Nemo are hindered by being re-themes.

The dark ride portion of RSR is a knockout

Frozen is hugely popular

I'd challenge you to actually name ones that WEREN'T successful.. because just going from memory here I can't think of any that were not that didn't have some major cripple factor like Nemo did.

Wait time in a vacuum is a horrible metric - as throughput of many of these designs is very high.

Regarding successful, I think it depends on what metric you're using. If we're talking personal appraisal, then of course I can't argue with that. Everyone gets to deem their personal favorites.

If you're talking via overall popularity - I don't think wait time tells you everything, but it tells you something. This is according to a brief Google search, so if you have different data feel free to share. Regarding ridership per hour (including wait time for stops and such):

Little Mermaid: 1,900
Jungle Cruise: 1,800 (possibly lower when delays are high)
Haunted Mansion: 2,880
Pirates: 2,800 - 3,200
Winnie the Pooh - 2,800 - 3,200
Space Mountain - 2,000

Again, there's a margin of error for all rides there, but it gives some approximation of how many people are lining up for these rides. Rides with significantly higher capacity have much longer waits than Mermaid.

My general point is that there's an insistence on using IP, but people don't always flock to something simply because it's IP based. And I think broader themes could potentially create better ride experiences because you aren't constrained by a specific narrative. I think an "ocean" based ride could be absolutely amazing from an experiential point of view. Journey of the Little Mermaid is a good ride if you're a big fan of the movie but if you're not, it would be a fairly random grouping of scenes with little emotional arc.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Sorry, the ops data simply doesn't agree with you.

Current situation at DCA...

View attachment 892405

Must really be empty for a 45min wait...

I thought you were talking MK. The wait for Ariel today is an average of 14 minutes.

 

[flynnibus]

Regarding successful, I think it depends on what metric you're using. If we're talking personal appraisal, then of course I can't argue with that. Everyone gets to deem their personal favorites.

I don't know why you went there.. but we're talking about attractions. Success should be is they do what they are built to do - be a draw in the park and be utilized. If the attraction continues to draw people and leave them entertained, that's what it's there for.

If you're talking via overall popularity - I don't think wait time tells you everything, but it tells you something. This is according to a brief Google search, so if you have different data feel free to share. Regarding ridership per hour (including wait time for stops and such):

Little Mermaid: 1,900
Jungle Cruise: 1,800 (possibly lower when delays are high)
Haunted Mansion: 2,880
Pirates: 2,800 - 3,200
Winnie the Pooh - 2,800 - 3,200
Space Mountain - 2,000

Again, there's a margin of error for all rides there, but it gives some approximation of how many people are lining up for these rides. Rides with significantly higher capacity have much longer waits than Mermaid.

I'm sorry, so your argument is it's not the most popular attraction, hence it must be unsuccessful? Your rationalization here makes no sense.

Mermaid is a high capacity omni mover and it regularly maintains 20+ min wait times and can frequently hold 40+min wait times. That means people are going on it, and doing so by the thousands, and enough demand to wait for the attraction over others. I don't know what other metric you want - It's doing it's job as a draw.

My general point is that there's an insistence on using IP, but people don't always flock to something simply because it's IP based. And I think broader themes could potentially create better ride experiences because you aren't constrained by a specific narrative.

Sorry, this is simply a strawman absolute take. The argument that IP creates draw (something that is done EVERYWHERE... from food, to retail, to entertainment, to events) does not mean 'flock to something simply because it's IP based' nor that it applies uniformly to everyone. It's simply an added draw - and something that easily taps on preexisting work.

You can deny the principal - but you'd be head in sand to literally the entire world around you.

I think an "ocean" based ride could be absolutely amazing from an experiential point of view. Journey of the Little Mermaid is a good ride if you're a big fan of the movie but if you're not, it would be a fairly random grouping of scenes with little emotional arc.

Could it be amazing? Sure. Does TLM grab more attention at first glance than 'ocean'? I'm sorry, it just does. And is why people spend millions to use other people's brand or characters in nearly every facet of marketing. It's not some Disney synergy trick. It's how consumers work.

 

[flynnibus]

I thought you were talking MK. The wait for Ariel today is an average of 14 minutes.

We're talking about IP in attractions... don't try to sleether out on that cop out.

You'll also find at MK

And trending up, not down..

It's still a high capacity omnimover that sustains significant waits and does all the things mentioned. Sure beats attractions like people mover or even untouchables like IASW.

Reports of Ariel's doom have been exaggerated.

 

[FettFan]

Frozen is a much better ride than Malesteom.

I disagree for the simple fact that they went far too hard with the LED lighting and projectors.

Case in point, the old Viking village scene that was on the rider’s right. It was very dark, used strategic lighting to make the characters pop, and a backdrop that made use of UV paint. If the riders looked to the left, all they would see was blackness because Disney used black dropcloth to hide the walls.

This same area was repurposed to the singing Ana, Olaf, Scooby and Fred.

Notice how lighted the scene is? They still use black lights to on the characters, but everything is bathed in a blue electronic-screen ambient light. In this scene, if the rider looks to the left, they’ll see Disney’s black curtains.


Also worth noting that because of these light antics, Frozen actually feels more claustrophobic than Maelstrom.

 

[flynnibus]

I disagree for the simple fact that they went far too hard with the LED lighting and projectors.

Well if you are rating attractions based on set designer awards.. ok.. but no one is.

Maelstrom held on a by thread by being only one of two non-stage/film shows in it's part of the park. Anywhere else it would have been even more abandoned then it was.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Y'know, I can kind of see your point. I feel like it's the same problem I'd have with the rumored Muppets takeover of the Hall of Presidents... it sounds like a funny idea on paper, but as an actual thing (especially as a replacement for an attraction that takes itself seriously), it'd be cringe-worthy.

Disney has indeed become incompetent at producing comedy - no question there. I will push back a bit regarding the Muppets - we’ve seen a preview of what the Muppets President attraction would look like with the live Liberty Square show and it was actually very good, one of the funniest things Disney has managed in a decade. Between that and the Jollywood show, the Muppets seem able to dodge the Disney comedy curse, perhaps because the IP fundamentally has more of an adult appeal and satirical edge that lets the creatives and execs feel a bit less constrained.

In any case, Presidents needs to go so badly it’s worth the risk.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Exactly. Disney was never going to "try everything" when developing this show

The Disney of today deciding to make a Zootopia 3D movie for young children, on a budget, in an existing venue, was always going to result in something like a Zootopia Disney+ short that could play anywhere for any reason.

"They could have had a message about..." No they couldn't. Circle of Life at Epcot was 30 years ago. That was never going to happen with a project like this. Zootopia: Minion Mayhem was always going to be the end result because that's the company's and audience's point of reference and expectation for this kind of experience.

Hey! Minion Mayhem actually dodges all the narrative pitfalls Zootopia stumbles into. Zootopia is a massively superior IP, but Mayhem would have been a better blueprint for the new attraction then whatever they used.

 

[Casper Gutman]

To some kids.

EPCOT was my favorite park (and really the reason I loved Disney World) as a kid specifically because of rides like Spaceship Earth (and the original Living Seas masterpiece, Imagination, World of Motion, etc.). That version of EPCOT (including that version of SSE) was better than the current version, though.

EPCOT made me a Disney fan as a child.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Are there people who actually think this way/are unable to be rational?

It always feels like a strawman to avoid having to accept that someone's personal opinion isn't objective fact.

For me, EPCOT was significantly better in almost every way -- it had a much better attraction lineup, for one.

I liked 1990s DHS more than current DHS, but they're very different parks with essentially a different theme and hard to even compare. The overall attraction lineup is stronger now at DHS but other areas of the park are lacking compared to what they once were.

Animal Kingdom, on the other hand, should be the best it's ever been once Tropical Americas opens -- there have been a couple of downgrades/losses, but overall the park should be improved.

EDIT: Actually, I can answer my own rhetorical question. While I'm not sure the reason is actually nostalgia and I kind of doubt that it is, there are definitely some people who trash absolutely anything Disney does now no matter what it is. So the unable to be rational part, at least, probably applies.

Agreed with everything here, with the caveat that, having just visited, I’m reminded Animal Kingdom DESPERATELY needs additions, not replacements. So even though Tropical should make the park the best it’s ever been, it still is woefully underbuilt!

 

[DisneyHead123]

I'm sorry, so your argument is it's not the most popular attraction, hence it must be unsuccessful? Your rationalization here makes no sense.

Mermaid is a high capacity omni mover and it regularly maintains 20+ min wait times and can frequently hold 40+min wait times. That means people are going on it, and doing so by the thousands, and enough demand to wait for the attraction over others. I don't know what other metric you want - It's doing it's job as a draw.

Honestly it's not that deep, I'm not sure what the argument is here. Do you object to the idea that Disney should maybe consider a few non-IP based rides? Or is your stance that only IP should be allowed, because you consider Little Mermaid such a success? (Even though many non-IP based rides are relatively more frequented by guests.)

 

[flynnibus]

Honestly it's not that deep, I'm not sure what the argument is here. Do you object to the idea that Disney should maybe consider a few non-IP based rides? Or is your stance that only IP should be allowed, because you consider Little Mermaid such a success? (Even though many non-IP based rides are relatively more frequented by guests.)

I'm not trying to argue any of that. I was drawn in by your statement of "Other than Frozen, traditional IP based dark rides built after the parks were established haven't really taken off though"

I'm still waiting for you to qualify that..