• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

DAK “Zootopia” is being created for the Tree of Life theater

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
Disney is, and has been since the sorcerer hat was removed 10 years ago, using Tower of Terror as the park's symbolic icon for branding. Just check the official website. The Chinese Theater is the weenie but was never the icon. Before the sorcerer hat, the icon was the Earful Tower.

I agree that Tower of Terror doesn't really make sense as the park's icon, but clearly they feel that the icon needs to be the tallest, most prominent thing in the park.
That park has struggled to figure itself out since opening, with several different structural icons: Earffel Tower, Sorcerer's Hat, Chinese Theater, Tower of Terror. For me there's a difference between "using" something as the thematic icon though, and what was designed into the park for that propose upon opening, in terms of layout, content, and purpose.

When they built ToT on the fringe of the park, they weren't saying "Let's build a new central thematic icon for the park...hmmm...what kind of attraction should we put inside?" They built a tall attraction (due to trends in amusement parks at the time -- drop rides) and it happened to be a fantastic ride with longevity, and quite photogenic and visible. In retrospect it's really great it has the word HOLLYWOOD on it given the park's current name. And meanwhile, the functioning studio aspect of the park collapsed, they parted ways with MGM, and these other circumstances undermined (gutted) both the Chinese Theater and the meta-movie theme of the park. ToT was both physically and in its steadfastness and quality, left standing, and has served nobly as the park's marketing icon, though not geographic, thematic, or spiritual centerpiece.

I say "served nobly" because I don't think that position is necessarily durable. If Monstropolis had an appealing, taller, landmark, I think it could supplant ToT in marketing. Or any other future addition, if prominent and photogenic enough. ToT "serves" as the park's marketing icon but I don't think it's necessarily as durable holding that position in this park as other iconic landmarks such as the castles, Spaceship Earth, or Tree of Life in their parks.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Tower of Terror is currently DHS's "icon", Cinderellas Castle is an expensive dining location

Epcot is fairly boring to kids ride through of human communications history.


I don't know when this icon thing was ever a rule?

To some kids.

EPCOT was my favorite park (and really the reason I loved Disney World) as a kid specifically because of rides like Spaceship Earth (and the original Living Seas masterpiece, Imagination, World of Motion, etc.). That version of EPCOT (including that version of SSE) was better than the current version, though.
 
Last edited:

jah4955

Well-Known Member
Everything back when I was a kid was the best. Everything today sucks.
Outstanding point, outstandingly said🏆. I remember visiting Disney in the late '90s, and most of the time I told myself, "Gee, I really miss ____...," it was, more-often-then-not, IMMEDIATELY followed by, telling myself "BUT the replacement with _______...make WDW, overall, even better than it has ever been before." For example, replacing old Circlevision with Timekeeper and Food Rocks with Soarin' (there are exceptions to the rule like Imagination 1.0, and the "jury is still out" over replacing TSI with Cars...as I've said repeatedly I'm refraining judgment on the many new additions of the last several years simply because I haven't been in several years...although CR seems a vast improvement over Ellen's Energy Adventure, and RoR vastly better than looking at the facade of the Golden Girls' house).
 

jah4955

Well-Known Member
The Chinese Theater is the weenie but was never the icon.
I FOUND IT! (guide map from 1989...very rare...just as Magic Kingdom was the simplified Castle drawing and EPCOT Center was simplified Spaceship Earth drawing for their respective (likewise rare) guidemaps...they all had a map of the park (mid/late-80's style) and general information, no attraction/land detail...).
1762723255346.png

and
1762722639063.png

and
1762722499405.png

and
1762722451615.png

and
1762723101143.png
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
To some kids.

EPCOT was my favorite park (and really the reason I loved Disney World) as a kid specifically because of rides like Spaceship Earth (and the original Living Seas masterpiece, Imagination, World of Motion, etc.). That version of EPCOT (including that version of SSE) was better than the current version, though.

I also loved Epcot as a 9 year old seeing its original form (the last instances of that), and continued to love it through being a teenager.

Assuming kids won’t like or enjoy anything that isn’t a recognizable IP presented in a dumbed down and pandering way is exactly how we end up with attractions like Better Zoogether.
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
I'll toss in a few attractions in the past 15 years that are just as good, better, or thematically make sense in addition to the section they were installed in (in other words-- Probably did not replace anything/anything of value)...

Keeping in mind: Hollywood Studios identity shifted over to "step into the movies" style... And Epcot, well, we'll just say Epcot is the "throw stuff here" park with no identity...

1). Galaxy's Edge/Rise of the Resistance... worthy land replacement given the direction the park decided to go.

2). Toy Story Land... To an extent. Could have been better, but worthy land replacement given the direction the park decided to go, and a park that needed more children's attractions.

3). Remy's Ratatouille Adventure... Did not replace anything. Was an addition.

4). Cosmic Rewind... "Wrong or right park" debate aside, nobody can say this isn't better than Ellen's Energy Adventure. (This is what people mean when they say Zootopia might night fit AK, but it still could have at least been a good attraction to replace bugs with)

5). Journey of Water... It's kinda stupid, but it did not replace anything. Additions without replacing are hardly ever downgrades.

6). Tron Lightcycle Run... "Wrong or right park" debate aside, it did not replace anything. Was an addition.

7). Seven Dwarfs Mine Train... Technically a replacement for the old dark ride, I'd argue it is a superior attraction, nostalgia aside.

8). The rest of new Fantasyland... TECHNICALLY didn't replace anything, considering leagues we closed for years. Addition is good. One can say little mermaid isn't a great ride, but again, nothing was there before... And it fits the park. So woohoo.

9). Pandora - The World of Avatar... Another example of an unlikely franchise that shouldn't fit in AK but was at least ATTEMPTED by the legend that is Rhode to fit corporate's ridiculously stupid idea into a park it SHOULDN'T belong... Into an under-utilized area of the park, which basically didn't replace anything since Lion King relocated. Sooo... Even if one is not a fan of it being in AK, it's still an addition that basically replaced nothing. Win win. Good attractions and beautiful scenery with it.

10). Awesome Planet... Replaced an aging film with a new film that carries the same message. Is as good as the old attraction.

11). Test Track 3.0... Can either be classified as being as good/the same as the old attraction, or a wonderful improvement depending on who you ask.

12). Country Bear Musical Jamboree... Can either be argued as the same experience, or better. Gung-ho crazy nostalgic people will vouch for OG, but the fact is, the new Disney-music version is NOT a bad show, and the ratings have gone drastically up to prove this.

18). Adding Coco to Philharmagic... Didn't replace a scene, and was an addition to the attraction, plussing it up.


Attractions in the last 15 years that DONT work...

1). Tiana's Bayou Adventure... This argument is worn out and tired, but, at MINIMUM, it just simply is not to the same quality of storytelling as the original... Plus thematically not making sense. Without bringing ANYthing else into the equation, that alone is not worthy of the replacement. If you're going to respond to this post, skip TBA and choose something else below. This one is old and worn out.

2). Upcoming Cars attraction in Frontierland... I am SPECULATING that this attraction will probably be great, but it does not fit in the land it is being shoehorned into... With the addition of losing MANY scenic elements that make Frontierland... "Frontier"land. It not thematically making sense at all just is what it is. Probably should have just replaced Tomorrowland Speedway with a cars attraction if they were going that route. Not a good move.

3). Zootopia, of course... Already not thematically making sense with the park or its location... But even if you scratch that out and just look at the quality of the attraction, it is a step down from what it replaced. One could argue more people can "enjoy" it... But that does not mean that it is a worthy contender, when they have gotten ride of half of the elements that made Bugs memorable. If Bugs was made to terrify you, then it obviously succeeded. If Zootopia was made to do........ Anything? Then it failed. All cards are stacked against it.

4). Frozen Ever After... Unlike Ratatouille, Frozen replaced an original attraction that was unique, and of a good classic quality in the sense of other popular classics around the resort. Frozen should have either been in addition to Norway, or put in Magic Kingdom's New Fantasyland.

5). Beauty and the Beast: Sing-Along... Will IdF still plays for two hours at night, this attraction was not necessary, and is simply just a DVD add-on menu extension, while IdF, while boring to many people, was unique to Epcot and as a theme park experience.

6). Mickey & Minnie's Runaway Railway... As some have stated, should not be the park's icon (or main street weenie) attraction. Its a good ride, and whether it is better than GMR is, I think, more of a personal opinion. But I'll say there were probably 4 better locations this could have gone without getting rid of the masterpiece that was GMR.

7). HISTA --> EO --> Short Film Festival... Need I say anything more?

The list can go on and on and on... I am tired now. There are a LOT more I could list that Disney has done or is about to do WRONG.... Which is sad. But, oh well.
 

WorldExplorer

Well-Known Member
I also loved Epcot as a 9 year old seeing its original form (the last instances of that), and continued to love it through being a teenager.

Assuming kids won’t like or enjoy anything that isn’t a recognizable IP presented in a dumbed down and pandering way is exactly how we end up with attractions like Better Zoogether.

We now have two parks that are an ode to people's insistence their kids care about literally nothing but cartoons and movies and that's supposedly okay.

Not the ocean. Not history or culture. Not technology. Not animals. Not space. Not dinosaurs. Not any of the stuff that has fascinated and inspired humanity for centuries. Heck, they don't even care about the concept of creativity itself.

Just more movies. That's it. Not the effort that goes into making them, though; they don't care about that either.

It's depressing.
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
I agree that Tower of Terror doesn't really make sense as the park's icon
What WOULD make sense as the icon of Hollywood Studios? A giant statue of Paul Rudish's Mickey holding a Lightsaber in one hand and a Buzz Lightyear action figure in the other?
nobody can say this isn't better than Ellen's Energy Adventure.
At least Ellen's Energy Adventure had animatronic dinosaurs.
If Zootopia was made to do........ Anything?
It was made to get people to watch Zootopia on Disney Plus and see the sequel in theaters.
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
What WOULD make sense as the icon of Hollywood Studios? A giant statue of Paul Rudish's Mickey holding a Lightsaber in one hand and a Buzz Lightyear action figure in the other?

Before Splash Mountain's retheme was announced, people on this site constantly complained about Mr. Toad closing and nobody seemed to have a problem with THAT. What's the difference here?

At least Ellen's Energy Adventure had animatronic dinosaurs.

It was made to get people to watch Zootopia on Disney Plus and see the sequel in theaters.
The main problem is that I wasn't there for that. If people were still talking about Mr Toad I would also be incredibly annoyed. I will point out that they have more of a point atleast because it was a non ride replacing a ride, still would get annoying though very quickly.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Everything back when I was a kid was the best. Everything today sucks.

Are there people who actually think this way/are unable to be rational?

It always feels like a strawman to avoid having to accept that someone's personal opinion isn't objective fact.

For me, EPCOT was significantly better in almost every way -- it had a much better attraction lineup, for one.

I liked 1990s DHS more than current DHS, but they're very different parks with essentially a different theme and hard to even compare. The overall attraction lineup is stronger now at DHS but other areas of the park are lacking compared to what they once were.

Animal Kingdom, on the other hand, should be the best it's ever been once Tropical Americas opens -- there have been a couple of downgrades/losses, but overall the park should be improved.

EDIT: Actually, I can answer my own rhetorical question. While I'm not sure the reason is actually nostalgia and I kind of doubt that it is, there are definitely some people who trash absolutely anything Disney does now no matter what it is. So the unable to be rational part, at least, probably applies.
 
Last edited:

Chi84

Premium Member
Are there people who actually think this way/are unable to be rational?

It always feels like a strawman to avoid having to accept that someone's personal opinion isn't objective fact.

For me, EPCOT was significantly better in almost every way -- it had a much better attraction lineup, for one.

I liked 1990s DHS more than current DHS, but they're very different parks with essentially a different theme and hard to even compare. The overall attraction lineup is stronger now at DHS but other areas of the park are lacking compared to what they once were.

Animal Kingdom should be the best it's ever been once Tropical Americas opens -- there have been a couple of downgrades/losses, but overall the park should be improved.
I assumed he was kidding.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I assumed he was kidding.

He may have been!

I've seen people make similar comments here before and mean it, though, so I wasn't sure. It always make me roll my eyes when someone says a person only likes something because of nostalgia as though they're incapable of making that determination on their own. I've seen it used to completely dismiss people's opinions when it's really no different than suggesting someone only likes something because it's new.

I liked Electric Umbrella, e.g., but I'm aware that was entirely because of nostalgia and not because of any inherent quality; I don't think the park lost anything by replacing it. I'm capable of separating nostalgia from other reasons.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Must have been something really good that happened there!

Just nostalgia for that whole era of late 1980s/early 1990s design rather than anything specific to Electric Umbrella. It basically felt like a movie theater or mall food court from the time and it was fun that it still existed -- it had essentially turned into a retro themed space just by virtue of existing so long. Most other similar places had long since been redesigned.

But again, that wasn't an excuse to keep it and I'm not mad they replaced it! It definitely needed an overhaul.
 

JD80

Well-Known Member
Are there people who actually think this way/are unable to be rational?

It always feels like a strawman to avoid having to accept that someone's personal opinion isn't objective fact.

For me, EPCOT was significantly better in almost every way -- it had a much better attraction lineup, for one.

I liked 1990s DHS more than current DHS, but they're very different parks with essentially a different theme and hard to even compare. The overall attraction lineup is stronger now at DHS but other areas of the park are lacking compared to what they once were.

Animal Kingdom, on the other hand, should be the best it's ever been once Tropical Americas opens -- there have been a couple of downgrades/losses, but overall the park should be improved.

EDIT: Actually, I can answer my own rhetorical question. While I'm not sure the reason is actually nostalgia and I kind of doubt that it is, there are definitely some people who trash absolutely anything Disney does now no matter what it is. So the unable to be rational part, at least, probably applies.

It's a joke.

There are plenty of people who seem to follow this mantra. But I personally believe nothing is ever absolute.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
So we are just going to dismiss away Spaceship Earth as a fairly boring ride ?

You know that rides can connect with people on a deep level without having to be thrilling.

I can get my thrills for much cheaper at my local Six Flags.

I go to Disney for experiences I can get nowhere else.

Experiences like Spaceship Earth.
Riding the Irons version literally changed my life and I was nine. I am thankful the bones of SSE are still there. I think the proposed 2020 version could have killed it.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
For a kid, yes. Source: I have two brothers, they hated the ride and thought it went on way too long.

For clarification, they loved about every other dark ride, it was specifically Spaceship Earth that they didn't like because it was a slow moving history ride for like 16 minutes with a fairly poor ending to be fair.
I can't blame them for hating the current ending.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
It's a joke.

There are plenty of people who seem to follow this mantra. But I personally believe nothing is ever absolute.

I wasn't trying to single you out -- just get annoyed by the people who legitimately believe that anyone who prefers something older is blinded by nostalgia and incapable of using their brain to draw rational/logical conclusions. I agree there are people who do what you said, but there are also plenty of people who do the opposite and seem believe that anything new is automatically better no matter what.

Then there are the people who believe their opinion is objective fact and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to be dismissed for whatever reason they make up. Nostalgia is often the go to crutch here which is very frustrating to me, but it goes both ways -- there are also people who post here that trash essentially everything Disney does and dismiss anyone who says anything positive.
 
Last edited:

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom