Len Testa - “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

[PREMiERdrum]

I'll add one last bit: The product isn't bad. It's not at its best, but it isn't bad in today marketplace. I've been thinking about my current nearly-41-year-old-self in this position when EPCOT opened, when MGM opened, when the major hotel expansions opened, when DAK opened... plenty of missteps then as we see now. Nostalgia remembers the great while excusing the bad.

My wife and I arrive at 1:00 p.m. this Friday for a getaway weekend at Beach Club and EPCOT. We'll enjoy the hell out of it.

We brought our 4 kids, 2 grandmas, a grandpa, and 2 nieces/nephews for a long stay at Coronado this past Summer. We loved it.

We'll be back in August with our 2nd oldest daughter for dance nationals, staying at Wilderness Lodge and sneaking in some park time as we're able.

But all 3 of those experiences were made possible using discount mechanisms not available to the average visitor.

The product isn't the problem (though there is obviously room to improve). The disconnect between the product, pricing, and marketing is.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

They will either figure it out or fail. I'm betting they will figure it out after they fail and in the mean time I'll be sitting it out.

They'll figure it out, they always do. The parks aren't shuttering or being spun off.

The path between now and then is where my concern lies, and how much they cede.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They'll figure it out, they always do. The parks aren't shuttering or being spun off.

The path between now and then is where my concern lies, and how much they cede.

Well here’s where you have more faith

There’s zero chance the parks close…there’s still gold in that mine to be extracted

But they’re barreling towards being bought…and that can’t turn out well for a reputation product in some new “Nuevo” business model

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'll add one last bit: The product isn't bad. It's not at its best, but it isn't bad in today marketplace. I've been thinking about my current nearly-41-year-old-self in this position when EPCOT opened, when MGM opened, when the major hotel expansions opened, when DAK opened... plenty of missteps then as we see now. Nostalgia remembers the great while excusing the bad.

Good point

My wife and I arrive at 1:00 p.m. this Friday for a getaway weekend at Beach Club and EPCOT. We'll enjoy the hell out of it.

TMI

We brought our 4 kids, 2 grandmas, a grandpa, and 2 nieces/nephews for a long stay at Coronado this past Summer. We loved it.

That’s about 6 people over my “maximum Tolerance of humans” threshold

We'll be back in August with our 2nd oldest daughter for dance nationals, staying at Wilderness Lodge and sneaking in some park time as we're able.

But all 3 of those experiences were made possible using discount mechanisms not available to the average visitor.

Good point

The product isn't the problem (though there is obviously room to improve). The disconnect between the product, pricing, and marketing is.

I think a big issue you touched on earlier is by “shrinking the pool”…they are trying to make up for losses by overcharging their most “seasoned” troops…

In essence…we love Disney…but we aren’t oblivious to when things are “better” or “worse”

they crawled under a microscope to those who knew better…and it’s harder to get them to bite on the hooks. Social media and the complaintosphere don’t help the Mouse at all there.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ha, for decades prices at WDW have gone up faster the incomes. Its called business.

They never let us forget WDW is just a business.

This will be even more true in the future at WDW with Carsland.

Ha

Disney parks…especially wdw…have never NOT grown organically as travel as a whole has risen…for many decades.

The only down swings are recessions

That’s where they are now…falling downstream…

And cars land will change zero…nothing. A New ride doesn’t attract new visitors with any discernible bump…it just redistributes the crowd.

 

[bmr1591]

I do think an outside buyer could help the situation, but only if the outside buyer is someone who actually enjoys the parks and not an Apple who just wants to monetize it. “Anyone who spend money like that on the parks wants to monetize it!” Yeah, I realize that. People want to get a return on investment. At current prices, you’ll get that. But what you do with what’s there and what will be there in the future doesn’t have to be the cheapest option available.

 

[Touchdown]

They’ll figure it out when it kicks them in the rear. At least they are now doing cap ex projects again. They will finally get religion when they have a few disastrous quarters. The only problem is that will only last so long until they revert to this. Just like every business they are going to be on a ten year cycle.

 

[The Mom]

I don't think it's abnormal for parents who can afford to do so to treat their adult children to family trips on occasion. I think some here are mischaracterising others' posts in an attempt to make it seem weird (e.g., by suggesting that such generosity only ever works one way, or that the parents are just funding their children without joining them), but the practice actually under discussion is pretty unremarkable.

My husband and I treated our adult children and son-in-law to a family river cruise on the Danube. My son-in-law paid for their airfare and hotel pre-cruise, and dinners in Budapest and Bucharest.

My younger son is not as well established so we paid for his airfare.

My husband and I wanted a family memory, and we could well afford it. It was, and is, a wonderful family memory that my children will remember long after we are gone. Much better than getting the cash after we are gone.

 

[Touchdown]

I vacation with my parents a few times a year however, we split costs. Given I’m otherwise a solo traveler this saves me considerable money on the hotel and rental car plus I enjoy the company. Occasionally my family (siblings too) gift each other experiences/trips at holidays instead of stuff I see no problem with that either.

 

[KDM31091]

They are riding on nostalgia because superfans/Disney adults like us are what are at least partially keeping it going. Your average guest is probably delaying a visit because of so many things closed. They are waiting for the new stuff since there is nothing major new right now.

But when you keep producing subpar products, at some point even superfans grow weary. I have seen numerous people on FB groups giving up their annual passes due to the escalating absurd prices, paywalls, etc. Is it enough to make a dent yet? Probably not. But at some point all this will catch up to them.

 

[jah4955]

They will either figure it out or fail. I'm betting they will figure it out after they fail and in the mean time I'll be sitting it out.

Big responses to "Great Recession" that I know of

• 2009: Free admission to a park on your birthday.
• 2010: "Give a day, get a [free] day."

 

[Andrew C]

Big responses to "Great Recession" that I know of

• 2009: Free admission to a park on your birthday.
• 2010: "Give a day, get a [free] day."

What about un-birthdays?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Two things:

According to Orlando…everything is always “booming” and or “growing” in Orlando. If things head down…they’re all screwed. And yes…I did live there during both.

Your above comments about booming and growing have nothing to do with the factual stats I posted about business travelers.

 

[Raineman]

Canada not doing so hot either https://www.newser.com/story/377581/why-young-canadians-are-doom-spending.html

Us Canucks have, for the most part, always had an extra factor when it comes to Disney theme park vacation affordability, outside of up-front prices- exchange rate. A small shift in exchange rate can move a WDW vacation from affordable to not affordable/just out of budget, or vice versa. It can often be a major factor in the viability of a WDW vacation. Now in 2025, there is one other major factor that has entered the chat as far as affecting decisions on possible WDW visits, one which overrides cost for some of us-a certain political factor-but I will not expand on that one.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Your above comments about booming and growing have nothing to do with the factual stats I posted about business travelers.

Your factual stats show what everyone knows: they’re almost entirely tourist dependent

And the reason conventions are there are usually the tourism…so that’s the loosest use of “business” travel there is.

I’m sure fun times are ahead for O-town…as always

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My husband and I treated our adult children and son-in-law to a family river cruise on the Danube. My son-in-law paid for their airfare and hotel pre-cruise, and dinners in Budapest and Bucharest.

My younger son is not as well established so we paid for his airfare.

My husband and I wanted a family memory, and we could well afford it. It was, and is, a wonderful family memory that my children will remember long after we are gone. Much better than getting the cash after we are gone.

Which totally makes sense because it’s unique and lasting…

I don’t put an Annual trip for 7 nights to wilderness lodge with park hopping…no matter what the Disney commercials try to sell it as…in the same category.

The details and context matter

 

[Disstevefan1]

Ha

Disney parks…especially wdw…have never NOT grown organically as travel as a whole has risen…for many decades.

The only down swings are recessions

That’s where they are now…falling downstream…

And cars land will change zero…nothing. A New ride doesn’t attract new visitors with any discernible bump…it just redistributes the crowd.

In my opinion, all other things being equal, MKs Carsland will SELL MORE LLs, thereby increasing the per capita spending and that is all Disney cares about today.

 

[Chi84]

Which totally makes sense because it’s unique and lasting…

I don’t put an Annual trip for 7 nights to wilderness lodge with park hopping…no matter what the Disney commercials try to sell it as…in the same category.

The details and context matter

That’s only true if you’re judging other people’s choices based on your own preferences.

For a family with young children WDW could be the better choice.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In my opinion, all other things being equal, MKs Carsland will SELL MORE LLs, thereby increasing the per capita spending and that is all Disney cares about today.

…as more people walk away or are priced out

That’s the race to the bottom they are running…don’t expect a presser announcing this

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Yeah, that dollar per day price increase in 1995 killed my trip plans. Couldn’t pull it off with that massive ticket price increase. Even worse - the $1.25 increase in 1997. I almost had to call the trip off because of it.

Had they simply kept the few dollars a year increases we’d still be going to the parks, it was the additional $30-50 a day in LL costs that are keeping us away.

Disney has always raised prices by a couple percent a year, I can’t think of any other time in my lifetime where they essentially added a 25-33% price increase overnight though.

In my opinion, all other things being equal, MKs Carsland will SELL MORE LLs, thereby increasing the per capita spending and that is all Disney cares about today.

I think this highlights one of the major problems with Disney now relying so heavily on extras like LL to prop up their financials… demand for ILL will decrease over time as newness wears off, Disney has to build just to maintain LL demand.

By the time Carsland opens my guess is it will replace Tron on the ILL list, by then most people will have ridden Tron enough the demand for ILL will probably be low, so Tron moves to regular LL where it becomes a popular choice again, and Carsland becomes the new desirable ILL, it’s a huge day over day LL increase but probably a small year over year increase because it will just return them to the same spot they were in when Tron first opened.