Len Testa - “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm 45 and I would be mortified to have my Dad pay for anything for me. For me it's the other way, I would insist on taking care of him.

I’m from what I always thought was the great American tradition of multigenerations fighting at the table of restaurants for the bill…to PAY it.

I watched my dad fight my grandmother…and I would do the same for my parents…except they died in 91 and 04 respectively…

So I battle on with my brother and my in-laws.
We have taken our in-laws on vacations…they have booked dvc rooms for us when in town at the same times.

Do they need to be paid for? No way…is my dvc contract not as good as theirs? Of course not.

It’s just what seems to be right to me.

But as an anecdote. We’re meeting friends and kids in Orlando during the holidays from Santa Barbara…they pay their own way and we’ll swap bills the whole time…
After we go one’s parents and sisters family is coming in from Te-HAS for the sisters “50th”…
The parents will foot the bill for entire trip for the sisters family…a cop, a teacher a 21 year old and a 16 year old…and they Beetch about everything the whole time…

So some things aren’t “common”…as much as I’d like them to be.

 

[Ayla]

I work with hundreds under the age of 35 that make the same amount of money I do, but they are not interested in Disney trips. They have a lot higher expenses and debt than I ever had. Honestly they can't afford it.

I don't see my young adult kids ever wanting to pay for a trip to Disney. They think it's too expensive. I won't be paying for their trips because I agree with them.

Our son at 28 years old makes the same amount of money my husband does. He could definitely afford Disney. He has zero debt. He just returned from Hawaii and takes multiple other vacations a year (next one is Savannah in a couple months, last one before that was this spring to FL (no disney), a few months before that was Cabo). He doesn't see value in Disney, anymore. He was my one kid that hung on the longest, with our last trip together being the Fall of 2021. He has now moved on to other destinations.

I no longer see any value in Disney, either ~ but I could still afford it. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[LittleBuford]

When you say you let your parents pay for you in your 40’s…it’s going to trigger a common thought pattern. So that’s why I asked about trips. That isn’t what would be traditionally views as “normal”.

I don't think it's abnormal for parents who can afford to do so to treat their adult children to family trips on occasion. I think some here are mischaracterising others' posts in an attempt to make it seem weird (e.g., by suggesting that such generosity only ever works one way, or that the parents are just funding their children without joining them), but the practice actually under discussion is pretty unremarkable.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I see plenty of young adults whenever I go. Whether they’re loyal or not I have no idea, but they seem to be enjoying themselves.

That’s the problem we talk about a lot about here. some days it looks like a really overpriced, sanitized version of bar hopping in the college town. There’s some important downsides to that.

As to the question of affordability, I’m sure Disney would be wise enough as a company to respond to whatever economic situation they face in the future and adjust their prices accordingly.

We hope they would…

But ZERO evidence that’s going to happen. And that’s not the way it’s “always been”

Look at just the last month: cracks all over the place…yet again they increase prices while their customer base shrinks.

That is not a “market” dynamic.

and I’ll do you better: this will be the SLOWEST holiday season in Orlando probably since 2012? Maybe longer? And it has been contracting…not expanding…the last few years as the rest of travel had been until 2025:..

So here’s how they’ll “adjust”:
They will implement more “flex pricing” whenever they can…totally unjustified.

Pay no attention to the sweatered weasel behind the curtain

 

[Ayla]

I don't think it's abnormal for parents who can afford to do so to treat their adult children to family trips on occasion. I think some here are mischaracterising others' posts in an attempt to make it seem weird (e.g., by suggesting that such generosity only ever works one way, or that the parents are just funding their children without joining them), but the practice actually under discussion is pretty unremarkable.

Yeah, it is, for parents who can afford it and choose to do it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think it's abnormal for parents who can afford to do so to treat their adult children to family trips on occasion. I think some here are mischaracterising others' posts in an attempt to make it seem weird (e.g., by suggesting that such generosity only ever works one way, or that the parents are just funding their children without joining them), but the practice actually under discussion is pretty unremarkable.

Opinions vary and everybody has got one…
I’d say that it depends on the details:

A large family trip someplace unique that that the Matriach/patriach pays for? No I don’t think that would be out of the ordinary

A beach house rental or ski trip that long standing family tradition? Seems pretty kosher

Repeated trips to Disney world…
…eh…that’s in the neutral zone for sure. That’s kind of largesse…not “tradition”. Adults paying their cuts for that is a totally different scenario.

 

[Miss Bella]

Three people at my job on vacation this week. The 30 year old is going to Cabo, the 35 year old is going to NYC and the 60 year old is going to DL...go figure.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

One quick bit of clarity from what we are and aren't hearing on our end-

We *are not* hearing from established clients or new leads that the product is too expensive, at least any more than we have previously in our 15ish years of doing this.

We *are* hearing from folks that they don't have enough money - either cash or credit access - to book the trip they want to. I'm confident that most of these people would still be booking the trips if they could afford to, no matter what Disney was asking.

And that's where I get worried for both my own business and the mouse's: There is a lot of development already moving on property and more in the hopper, most of it being done the right way (or as close as today's company can offer). In the years between now and these major expansions coming online, prices will continue to push (or in a complete emergency, stagnate, though through promotions and windowdressing can appear to be different). How much faith do we have consumer comfort will have not just overcome today's gap, but keep up with further increases?

In all honesty, it would be easier for all of us if the consumer just thought it was too expensive flat out. We can market around that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

One quick bit of clarity from what we are and aren't hearing on our end-

We *are not* hearing from established clients or new leads that the product is too expensive, at least any more than we have previously in our 15ish years of doing this.

We *are* hearing from folks that they don't have enough money - either cash or credit access - to book the trip they want to. I'm confident that most of these people would still be booking the trips if they could afford to, no matter what Disney was asking.

And that's where I get worried for both my own business and the mouse's: There is a lot of development already moving on property and more in the hopper, most of it being done the right way (or as close as today's company can offer). In the years between now and these major expansions coming online, prices will continue to push (or in a complete emergency, stagnate, though through promotions and windowdressing can appear to be different). How much faith do we have consumer comfort will have not just overcome today's gap, but keep up with further increases?

In all honesty, it would be easier for all of us if the consumer just thought it was too expensive flat out. We can market around that.

Not to be too “supply side” with this…

But “we don’t have enough money…” is the same as “it’s overpriced” if they are within the demographics for Disney travel…which is 100% middle class…not “luxury”

What you’re describing is the onslaught over price increases everywhere that is shrinking disposable cash…which if the headlines were allowed to be honest…would be the headline damn near every day…

Is that Disneys “fault”? No. what they are failing at is ignoring the market changes, their place in it, and waiting to it. When your margins are shrinking and your customer base is…which both management is required to adjust and come up with some strategy adjustments

They are not.

Flooding cruise ships as demand falls? Higher lightning lane fees that get the buyer less for it?

Brilliant.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

You said they don’t have access to credit? What does that mean they’ve maxed out all their credit?

I'm extrapolating, but based on experience I'm confident most of these folks would book if they could.

American CC debt is at $1.21 trillion, more people are carrying balances, and consumer cards classified as "in distress" hit a 12-year high earlier this year. It's tougher for a lot of people now that it has been in a while.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes people tend to socialize in their own economic bracket.

And I would be for every 5 in that bracket having tapas and martinis in their class…there are 50 looking forward to dominos on Friday night

 

[Trauma]

My business partners kids have never been to Disney. 13 and 11 year old boys.

I offered to bring him and his family with next trip, accommodations on me.

He said his kids have no interest in Disney.



I honestly struggle to get people to come with to Disney. I tell them I will take care of the room and they are happy. Then they find out how much park tickets meals etc cost and they back out.

All the friends I do have that can easily afford trips either prefer to go other places or have already been many times before.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My business partners kids have never been to Disney. 13 and 11 year old boys.

I offered to bring him and his family with next trip, accommodations on me.

He said his kids have no interest in Disney.



I honestly struggle to get people to come with to Disney. I tell them I will take care of the room and they are happy. Then they find out how much park tickets meals etc cost and they back out.

All the friends I do have that can easily afford trips either prefer to go other places or have already been many times before.

The last 10 years have had some huge mistakes in brand recognition/loyalty development. Slap a huge price on top of that…and defection away adds up.

 

[LittleBuford]

My business partners kids have never been to Disney. 13 and 11 year old boys.

I offered to bring him and his family with next trip, accommodations on me.

He said his kids have no interest in Disney.



I honestly struggle to get people to come with to Disney. I tell them I will take care of the room and they are happy. Then they find out how much park tickets meals etc cost and they back out.

All the friends I do have that can easily afford trips either prefer to go other places or have already been many times before.

Maybe because I'm pretty much the sole Disney fan in my family or circle of friends, I'm never especially surprised when I read things like this. It's a very specific sort of holiday, and many, many people just have no interest in it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Have the radicalized ones pivoted to other vacations or is the well completely dry?

He’s talking about “Disney adults”…which is getting more and more media play…both sides of that coin

 

[Miss Bella]

Not to be too “supply side” with this…

But “we don’t have enough money…” is the same as “it’s overpriced” if they are within the demographics for Disney travel…which is 100% middle class…not “luxury”

What you’re describing is the onslaught over price increases everywhere that is shrinking disposable cash…which if the headlines were allowed to be honest…would be the headline damn near every day…

Is that Disneys “fault”? Now…what they are failing at is ignoring the market changes, their place in it, and waiting to it. When your margins are shrinking and your customer base is…which both management is required to adjust and come up with some strategy adjustments

They are not.

Flooding cruise ships as demand falls? Higher lightning lane fees that get the buyer less for it?

Brilliant.

What do think the solution is? Disney's operating costs are going up the same as their customers living expenses are. I'm asking that honestly because thinking about the economy keeps me up at night.

The cruise ships were in production long before Covid and the beginning of the stagflation that we are seeing. It's unfortunate timing. I think if they had a crystal ball they wouldn't have done it.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

My family never took a vacation - we were poor. I survived.

Same boat for us. The only vacations we went on when I was a kid were with my grandparents. They paid for the majority of the trips and we all had a blast. When I was a teenager we could afford vacations, but as a child we always went with the grandparents.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What do think the solution is? Disney's operating costs are going up the same as their customers living expenses are. I'm asking that honestly because thinking about the economy keeps me up at night.

Hold the line…allow “Main Street” to catch up a little on the outlays compared to cost of living. It’s a misnomer that “prices always have gone up”. They have…but not across the board and not at locked in rates. Disney park prices relative to cost of living have always been more of an “accordion model”…they do jumps when the economy permitted…but slowed the rates when they couldn’t. The result is the value has had periods of “solid” and “really good” and “expensive”

I get the strong sense more are viewing it as “ripoff”…which is a needle they can’t really thread.

The cruise ships were in production long before Covid and the beginning of the stagflation that we are seeing. It's unfortunate timing. I think if they had a crystal ball they wouldn't have done it.

This has nothing to do with Covid…it’s more Disneys trajectory since they sent out a lot of decrees since the housing crash. They got “lucky” for a long run and it always runs out.

what covid really did…the non-health related impacts…is open the floodgates for gouging out in the open with flimsy excuses. Massive government level mistake. Never give business a public pass and they did.

First it was “supply chain and inflation”. Now it’s “tariffs and inflation”.

In a couple of years it will be something else.

Just gouging. Won’t be stopped now. Unless these fools fully crash it…in which case all bets are off.

 

[Miss Bella]

Hold the line…allow “Main Street” to catch up a little on the outlays compared to cost of living. It’s a misnomer that “prices always have gone up”. They have…but not across the board and not at locked in rates. Disney park prices relative to cost of living have always been more of an “accordion model”…they do jumps when the economy permitted…but slowed the rates when they couldn’t. The result is the value has had periods of “solid” and “really good” and “expensive”

I get the strong sense more are viewing it as “ripoff”…which is a needle they can’t really thread.

This has nothing to do with Covid…it’s more Disneys trajectory since they sent out a lot of decrees since the housing crash. They got “lucky” for a long run and it always runs out.

what covid really did…the non-health related impacts…is open the floodgates for gouging out in the open with flimsy excuses. Massive government level mistake. Never give business a public pass and they did.

First it was “supply chain and inflation”. Now it’s “tariffs and inflation”.

In a couple of years it will be something else.

Just gouging. Won’t be stopped now. Unless these fools fully crash it…in which case all bets are off

I believe Disney is just a symptom of the economy. They may not be handling in the best way, but they didn't create the problem.
I don't really believe in price gouging. Disney has nothing to gain from that. Disney is not a life or death necessity unless your so radicalized you can't let it go.

 

[jah4955]

I'm extrapolating, but based on experience I'm confident most of these folks would book if they could.

American CC debt is at $1.21 trillion, more people are carrying balances, and consumer cards classified as "in distress" hit a 12-year high earlier this year. It's tougher for a lot of people now that it has been in a while.

Canada not doing so hot either https://www.newser.com/story/377581/why-young-canadians-are-doom-spending.html