Avengers Campus: E-Watch! (Waiting on the new ride)

[mickEblu]

Lol, I don't think you're a newbie obviously. But I didn't know if you remembered it was part of the Coco permits that is starting soon. Because its clear the good Dr here doesn't remember, as this is the assumed prep work for the eventual bridge over to Simba. So this isn't happening in 5, 10, or even 15 years from now, its happening now now.

This is why I don't believe they are waiting until the 2040s or 2050s as the Dr believes before they move into Simba. This is ground work for a what appears to be a less than 10 year plan to move into that plot of land. Now what they do once they get there is anyone's guess, but its happening.


Yep understood.

Oh perhaps I wasn’t following your back and forth with him closely. That work going towards DL Drive has more to do with moving over the backstage road (and maybe parade path) than it does the bridge right?

 

[DrStarlander]

Now that is a matter of perspective I suppose. There was a poll thread recently done where the majority here said that DCA was either already there or one to two attractions away from being a full day Park.

I'm confused, on one hand you're saying sentiment is that the park is only 1-2 rides short of being complete and on the other hand you seem hyped for them to start working on Simba.

Disney is building at least 4 new attractions at DCA, why would they need Simba? In a few years they'll have several more attractions than they need, supposedly.

Except this new attraction every couple years cycle is what many guests want and almost expect, ie they want a reason to come back to see what is "new". Heck you have posters here like Mick who are giving up their MKs because of many reasons including (and I'm paraphrasing) the Park seeming stagnant with nothing new to experience for the price being paid. How many would keep their MKs or come more often if there was something new being introduced more regularly rather than every 15 or 20 years as you're appearing to suggest, and that starts with a new attraction opening more regularly.

My expectations are based on Disney's historic pacing of opening substantial new attractions within a park. What guests want and what makes sense for a business are not the same.

Many say its that pause they took between DCA2.0 and the recent projects that is what has caused DCA to become a "less than" Park to many and why its need to play "catch-up". Had they continued with projects on a cycle without a long pause it would have likely gotten some of the stuff you think it needs like another coaster, dark rides, etc.

Yes, I agree. They have underinvested the entire history of the park so far. I'm not defending the 13 year "lull" since DCA 2.0. But once these 4 (or more) new attractions come online, the context is different (and you said it yourself, guests will be over-satisfied as they supposedly think the park only need 1-2 rides). That would be why they'd take a pause on big (Simba) projects.

I just can't see them waiting until the mid-2040s or almost 2050s (based on your 15-17 years after what you're calling DCA3.0 is done which would be done between 2030-2032) just to get started on moving into Simba.

I understand we disagree on likely timing here, and I hope you're right, and I'm wrong. I'm only talking about how I think the Disney company will behave, not what I want as a park fan.

If you stagger construction starts and use an average of 3 year construction cycles per project

Yes they may stagger and overlap projects (they're doing it will DCA 3.0), I'm just sketching out a rough expectation.

Also my idea about prep starts now with Coco, that they will begin prepping the backstage and area around Katella and Disneyland Dr for the eventual bridge as part of Coco. The bridge itself in this scenario would begin construction after Avatar opens somewhere in 2030-2032 and be finished ~2 years later. Which leads to starting Simba somewhere in the 2033-2035 time frame.

I agree that given the complexity of that area, in the current Coco work they will figure out where they plan to build the bridge and how that will affect backstage, the hotel, etc. But they won't build it until the need it. And they may never.

That leads me to believe, like I'm showing with the cyan arrows, that guests will walk through what is now the backstage/parade gate area and diverge to either cross the bridge or keep going south toward Coco where I indicate the Coco entry around the purple lines.

I think you're right. Though I would prefer if they did something like what's in front of Pirates (in terms of weaving traffic at two levels) where they remake Paradise Gardens into a Mexican Village and then to get to the Coco ride you go to the southern part of the Mexican Village where there is a cemetery and you go down into a mausoleum and that is a tunnel that takes you behind Incredicoaster, so the Coco ride and the Mexican village are connected and tell a bigger story, with placemaking. Meanwhile, the bridge to Simba would pass over that tunnel perpendicular (east-west) from the park's main walkway circuit.

And to add to that I wouldn't be surprised if as part of Coco construction they move that service road underground similar to the one on Harbor. Heck I wouldn't even be surprised if they found a way to put the parade storage underground as well and sort of have a mini-utilidoors area in that section.

I agree, I wouldn't be surprised, at least as far as the road. The parade storage could be harder to have on a different level. I'd like to see more layering of functions on top of each other given the limited space.

This is the prep work I'm talking about.

Because its clear the good Dr here doesn't remember, as this is the assumed prep work for the eventual bridge over to Simba. So this isn't happening in 5, 10, or even 15 years from now, its happening now now.

I'm aware of that permit filing and have yet to see any evidence this involves anything west of Disneyland Dr. (Simba) or the bridge specifically, is this widely "assumed"? All this work/impact seems explainable by the Coco project, so far. But maybe more info will come out pointing specifically at them building a bridge (road closure notice?). But so far I don't think this is it.

 

[Disney Irish]

Oh perhaps I wasn’t following your back and forth with him closely. That work going towards DL Drive has more to do with moving over the backstage road (and maybe parade path) than it does the bridge right?

The assumption is that its an all-in-one type situation, stuff for the backstage movement to make space for Coco AND prep work for the eventual bridge. Because why else would you need to rip up "Air Mickey" now otherwise, as there is enough space today for Coco without much need to go into the sidewalks, etc.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm confused, on one hand you're saying sentiment is that the park is only 1-2 rides short of being complete and on the other hand you seem hyped for them to start working on Simba.

Being a "full day Park" does not mean complete. It means that for many its already worth the full day ticket prices for a full days experience, not that more shouldn't be added.

Disney is building at least 4 new attractions at DCA, why would they need Simba? In a few years they'll have several more attractions than they need, supposedly.

So they build the 4 and stop? That doesn't make sense, not since you already believe they need more like a coaster and a few dark rides in DCA.

Again being a full day park doesn't mean its done and complete, it just means one finds enough value in what is currently there to get a full days experience. So continuing to add more continues to add value to that experience.

My expectations are based on Disney's historic pacing of opening substantial new attractions within a park. What guests want and what makes sense for a business are not the same.

Other than the delays due to Covid, the previous historic pacing was 3 year project cycles. And it appears they are returning to that, or at least trying to.

Yes, I agree. They have underinvested the entire history of the park so far. I'm not defending the 13 year "lull" since DCA 2.0. But once these 4 (or more) new attractions come online, the context is different (and you said it yourself, guests will be over-satisfied as they supposedly think the park only need 1-2 rides). That would be why they'd take a pause on big (Simba) projects.

A pause though doesn't make sense, if you believe what Disney has said about further investment coming to DLR in the later half of this decade, ie it sounds like new projects will be announced in the upcoming D23s.

I understand we disagree on likely timing here, and I hope you're right, and I'm wrong. I'm only talking about how I think the Disney company will behave, not what I want as a park fan.

Yes they may stagger and overlap projects (they're doing it will DCA 3.0), I'm just sketching out a rough expectation.

Expectation here shouldn't be that its 20-30 years away. And that will make the previous pauses look small in comparison. And so I hope that isn't the case.

I agree that given the complexity of that area, in the current Coco work they will figure out where they plan to build the bridge and how that will affect backstage, the hotel, etc. But they won't build it until the need it. And they may never.

I don't think they will "figure it out", I think they already have a plan, as that is something you plan long in advance. Its just a matter of when it gets executed.

I agree, I wouldn't be surprised, at least as far as the road. The parade storage could be harder to have on a different level. I'd like to see more layering of functions on top of each other given the limited space.

It just makes the most sense to me, and there is precedence for it already at DLR.

I'm aware of that permit filing and have yet to see any evidence this involves anything west of Disneyland Dr. (Simba) or the bridge specifically, is this widely "assumed"? All this work/impact seems explainable by the Coco project, so far. But maybe more info will come out pointing specifically at them building a bridge (road closure notice?). But so far I don't think this is it.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying that this permit is the start of building anything west of DL Dr, I'm saying this is the prep work that will eventually lead to that, ie they start it now so that in 5-10 years they can then begin the move westward starting with the bridge. This puts the start of new projects in Simba if my time line is correct in 2035ish range with opening toward the end of that decade. So that by the 2040s they have a full land up and running in Simba.

 

[DrStarlander]

Being a "full day Park" does not mean complete. It means that for many its already worth the full day ticket prices for a full days experience, not that more shouldn't be added.

So they build the 4 and stop? That doesn't make sense, not since you already believe they need more like a coaster and a few dark rides in DCA.

Again being a full day park doesn't mean its done and complete, it just means one finds enough value in what is currently there to get a full days experience. So continuing to add more continues to add value to that experience.

Disney is building 4+ new attractions in DCA and then I think they'll wait on deciding on spending a billion, or two, on Simba for a decade. And in the meantime there will likely be enhancements, maybe a few smaller additions. Yes, I think a themed coaster is way overdue and shouldn't wait for Simba.

A pause though doesn't make sense, if you believe what Disney has said about further investment coming to DLR in the later half of this decade, ie it sounds like new projects will be announced in the upcoming D23s.

The later half of this decade DCA is getting 4+ new attractions. And I think DL (Tomorrowland) will get the focus in the 2030s, as far as big projects.

Expectation here shouldn't be that its 20-30 years away. And that will make the previous pauses look small in comparison. And so I hope that isn't the case.

Each time you post, you seem to stretch out my timeline! 30 years would be 2055, when did I say that?

I don't think they will "figure it out", I think they already have a plan, as that is something you plan long in advance. Its just a matter of when it gets executed.

You misunderstood me, I think. What I was saying is that as part of the current Coco project they will (or have) figure'd out the bridge (I have no idea what design phase they're at). They will have a fully executable conceptual plan for the bridge ready for years before it gets built.

Because why else would you need to rip up "Air Mickey" now otherwise, as there is enough space today for Coco without much need to go into the sidewalks, etc.

I don't think the permit says "we're ripping up Air Mickley," I think that was more an interesting observation by Brickey or others on possible impacts. One reason they may need to rip up trees and sidewalks and curbs for the Coco project is to get access to the water mains and sewage. Coco being a boat ride will likely need access to these utilities for filling and draining the ride and that may not exist otherwise at the level needed (or maybe would require too much disruption within the park to get to). Just a thought.

 

[Disney Irish]

Disney is building 4+ new attractions in DCA and then I think they'll wait on deciding on spending a billion, or two, on Simba for a decade. And in the meantime there will likely be enhancements, maybe a few smaller additions. Yes, I think a themed coaster is way overdue and shouldn't wait for Simba.

Well that remains to be seen on whether they will wait or not. My guess is they won't.

The later half of this decade DCA is getting 4+ new attractions. And I think DL (Tomorrowland) will get the focus in the 2030s, as far as big projects.

Further investment is coming beyond just these 4 attractions, based on their statements that more announcement will be coming toward the latter half of the decade. Now what those entail, we'll see. But my guess is TL is one, but DCA will get more too, whether that will be isolated to the current footprint or expand into Simba we'll see. D23 2026 and 2028 should provide us more details on what they have planned next.

Each time you post, you seem to stretch out my timeline! 30 years would be 2055, when did I say that?

This is based on your idea that they will "pause" for 15-17 years after what you call "DCA3.0". So with this "DCA3.0" finishing up with Avatar opening in 2031-2032, 15-17 years from that is 2046-2050, that is minimum 20-25 years from now, I added 5 additional years to make it a round number to 30, in your time line before DCA gets another major attraction. That just seems way too long to me.

You misunderstood me, I think. What I was saying is that as part of the current Coco project they will (or have) figure'd out the bridge (I have no idea what design phase they're at). They will have a fully executable conceptual plan for the bridge ready for years before it gets built.

My point is I think they already have it figured out, its just waiting on execution.

I don't think the permit says "we're ripping up Air Mickley," I think that was more an interesting observation by Brickey or others on possible impacts. One reason they may need to rip up trees and sidewalks and curbs for the Coco project is to get access to the water mains and sewage. Coco being a boat ride will likely need access to these utilities for filling and draining the ride and that may not exist otherwise at the level needed (or maybe would require too much disruption within the park to get to). Just a thought.

It wasn't just Brickey, other sites like the one I posted before have said they will be doing work beyond backstage -

"Early parts of the construction will take place along Disneyland Drive, and it will impact sidewalks, street curbs, gutters, trees, landscaping, fencing, and more"

So no it does not say "we're ripping up Air Mickey", but you put two and two together and it makes sense and Air Mickey isn't likely surviving for much longer at least in his current form or location.

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

Further investment is coming beyond just these 4 attractions, based on their statements that more announcement will be coming toward the latter half of the decade. Now what those entail, we'll see. But my guess is TL is one, but DCA will get more too, whether that will be isolated to the current footprint or expand into Simba we'll see. D23 2026 and 2028 should provide us more details on what they have planned next.

My notion has always been the first phase of Simba is a lock for D23 2028 announcements. And if they break ground the new fiscal year in September 2028 maybe they can get it open in 2031 based on how disney seems to be speeding up construction timeline as of late.

 

[Disney Irish]

My notion has always been the first phase of Simba is a lock for D23 2028 announcements. And if they break ground the new fiscal year in September 2028 maybe they can get it open in 2031 based on how disney seems to be speeding up construction timeline as of late.

That would be pretty close with what I'm thinking as well.