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Disney Irish

Premium Member
Do great people just "get undercut"?
Yes for many reason, including but not limited to jealousy, ego, vanity, loyalty to the previous people which were being replaced, trying to prevent someone better from taking your job in the future, and the list goes on.

The world is not a cut and dry place and people aren't always doing things for the most noblest of reasons, things like this happen in business all the time.
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
Yes for many reason, including but not limited to jealousy, ego, vanity, loyalty to the previous people which were being replaced, trying to prevent someone better from taking your job in the future, and the list goes on.

The world is not a cut and dry place and people aren't always doing things for the most noblest of reasons, things like this happen in business all the time.
Yeah, but this is all expected. You're describing the inherent conditions of the corporate world. Essentially every leader in every large company faces these exact same dynamics. What would explain some leaders being successful and some not? My point is that the reason to pay someone "the big bucks" is -- beyond their instinct, talent, insight, blah, blah -- is that they will be able to employ and benefit the company with those attributes because they can also thrive and survive in the environment you describe.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but this is all expected. You're describing the inherent conditions of the corporate world. Essentially every leader in every large company faces these exact same dynamics. What would explain some leaders being successful and some not? My point is that the reason to pay someone "the big bucks" is -- beyond their instinct, talent, insight, blah, blah -- is that they will be able to employ and benefit the company with those attributes because they can also thrive and survive in the environment you describe.
It’s kind of hard to lead when not only does nobody report to you but they’re also told to ignore you.
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
But do they open in a way that it’s very likely to hit a guest? This gate swings right into the main exit path from the ride.
...so why design the building like that? To design a brand new building to have a gate swing-opening onto that high-traffic guest path so therefore the gate had to be see-through so therefore guests have to see the backstage mechanicals? That's the creative/design/problem-solving path they followed which is being defended in a "well, they had to..."?
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
But do they open in a way that it’s very likely to hit a guest? This gate swings right into the main exit path from the ride.
Either they do… or they were designed not to. Either way…. It’s the same point.

Edit…. There is a door in the Starbucks at Hollywood studios that opens inwards to the guest area where the cream and sugar station is. I remember cause I was standing nearby when a cm knocked on the door and slowly opened it towards the guest area.
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
It’s kind of hard to lead when not only does anyone report to you but they’re also told to ignore you.
Again, why wasn't anyone made to report to him, why were people told to ignore him? What is it about him that made that happen?

Are people suggesting he was this flawless and well-liked genius that everybody above and below loved and respected...and in some unexplainable conspiracy of injustice they all sabotaged his career?
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Yeah, but this is all expected. You're describing the inherent conditions of the corporate world. Essentially every leader in every large company faces these exact same dynamics. What would explain some leaders being successful and some not? My point is that the reason to pay someone "the big bucks" is -- beyond their instinct, talent, insight, blah, blah -- is that they will be able to employ and benefit the company with those attributes because they can also thrive and survive in the environment you describe.
Again that assumes that the work force they come into lead accepts them from the start. And in an ideal world they would, but we don't live in an ideal world. When a new leader comes into an existing organization its almost like a courtship that has to happen. Both sides have to be accepting of each other and open to the advances of the other. If one side isn't accepting it doesn't matter what the other does it'll never work. Put it in the context of dating for example, if you start dating someone new but that person is still hung up on their ex there is almost no way it'll work as there is likely too much to overcome. The same happens in business again all the time. I've seen it happen at many of the companies I've worked for over the years. Its a very common tale in business unfortunately.

I don't know the specifics of why Ovitz was undercut just heard stories over the years, I sure some here can go into the specifics if you want, but you can't point all the fingers directly at him as being the only reason which is what you're trying to do. It takes two sides to make something work, even in business.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
...so why design the building like that? To design a brand new building to have a gate swing-opening onto that high-traffic guest path so therefore the gate had to be see-through so therefore guests have to see the backstage mechanicals? That's the creative/design/problem-solving path they followed which is being defended in a "well, they had to..."?
I think the point being made is that with the gate its a matter of function over form at this point. They were dealt a bad hand with regard to how the building was originally designed, as the gate in this case was an after thought it appears, and so had to work around that limitation for the reasons mentioned just to get something functional.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
...so why design the building like that? To design a brand new building to have a gate swing-opening onto that high-traffic guest path so therefore the gate had to be see-through so therefore guests have to see the backstage mechanicals? That's the creative/design/problem-solving path they followed which is being defended in a "well, they had to..."?
poor planning. This whole project is a disaster, literally front to back. Seems like someone somewhere didn’t realize the realities of what X SF sales area means in total.

Again, why wasn't anyone made to report to him, why were people told to ignore him? What is it about him that made that happen?

Are people suggesting he was this flawless and well-liked genius that everybody above and below loved and respected...and in some unexplainable conspiracy of injustice they all sabotaged his career?
Eisner became jealous and insecure. Powerful leaders not wanting a clear successor because they’re afraid of being usurped by that successor goes back millennia.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Again, why wasn't anyone made to report to him, why were people told to ignore him? What is it about him that made that happen?

Are people suggesting he was this flawless and well-liked genius that everybody above and below loved and respected...and in some unexplainable conspiracy of injustice they all sabotaged his career?
Did Ovitz fire you or a family member or something? I don't think anyone is really defending him here, but its seems like you have some personal grudge against him as you want to point all the blame of him not working out at Disney squarely at his shoulders.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
This whole project is a disaster, literally front to back.

Really is. What are some feasible things they could do to help a little? I mean they really just need to start over from the ground up but I think maybe some ivy or greenery on the roof would help.
 
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Disney Irish

Premium Member
Really is. What are some feasible things they could do to help a little? I mean they really just need to start over from the ground up but I think maybe some ivy or greenery on the roof would help.
I mean its Disney we're talking about, but it doesn't look like its that expensive of a building, at least by Disney standards. So I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple years they tear it down and start over.
 

Nirya

Well-Known Member
I read Disney War years ago and thanks for the impetus to re-read it. But when an executive does get "undercut," you have to wonder why? The undercutting may be the symptom, not the cause. Do great people just "get undercut"? Isn't the whole point in hiring a leader is to find a leader that has the qualities and does the hard work to form 360-degree connections and earned-trust to not get undercut. When you are paying an executive $100 million or more, yes you may want some brilliant instinct or insight or experience they have, but aren't they also being paid that much because they are uniquely expected to generate such confidence and goodwill from all around them that nobody wants to undercut them?

I mean, people get undercut all the time, no matter how amazing they are. Bill Belicheck was an amazing coach and people went out of their way to bury him near the end of his Patriots tenure. You can say the same for so many people.

In Ovitz's case, all of the top execs immediately started undercutting him because they felt they should have gotten the spot over him, and were dead-set on making him look as bad as possible so they could get another crack at it. And Michael Eisner, who was Ovitz's best friend and brought him in, immediately started cutting the legs out from under him because he did not want to risk another Katzenberger situation where someone became a threat to his own power.

I think the big difference between an Ovitz and what happened when Eisner and Wells took over is that Eisner and Wells were presented as the new leaders that everyone was going to follow, so everyone knew they had to get with the program or be gone. In Ovitz's situation, Eisner made it very clear that he was the real source of power and that Ovitz could be ignored from the very first day he started, and so everyone did.
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
Really is. What are some feasible things they could do to help a little? I mean they really just need to start over from the ground up but I think maybe some ivy or greenery on the roof would help.
PHASE 1:
  1. Add a 3-foot stone wainscoting around building to cut down on the amount of wood siding and make it more architecturally charming.
  2. Add a cupola with Rolly Crump "Museum of the Weird" weather vane that erratically changes direction to indicate mysterious natural forces swirling around the building.
  3. Add two dormers on each side of roof to cut down visual expanse of roof, with mysterious lighting in dormer windows.
  4. Add artificial ivy to roof to again to cut visual expanse and blend with Bayou Country.
  5. Swap Home Depot type rectangular lanterns hanging out front, which look bad as they are rotating, with Madame Leota mysterious stained glass lanterns that are cylindrical so it doesn't matter how they rotate.
  6. Get rid of weird iron things around front porch lights and replace with well-art-directed 1800s hand-painted advertising banners (similar to banners outside Le Cirque Arcana's at Epic Universe) touting Madame Leota's mystical services.
  7. Get rid of all electrical outlet boxes seen under roofs overhangs.
  8. Replace all hardware (eyebolts, carabiners) used for thematic props under roof overhang with 1800s blackened iron hardware available for a few dollars on Etsy.
  9. Add obscuring wavy antique glass to all exterior lighting so we can't see hot-spot of bulbs; make bulbs lower level of lumens and warmer color temperature.
PHASE 2:
  1. Replace all fiber cement (or whatever) fake siding with sandblasted raised-grain wood.
 

chadwpalm

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I don’t know if anyone remembers the pipes behind the gate as you leave the exit to the attraction, but they were pretty glaring, and this is Disney’s answer to “fixing” the solution:
1757798279753.jpeg
 

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