News New Haunted Mansion Grounds Expansion, Retail Shop Coming to Disneyland Resort in 2024

[Old Mouseketeer]

When I rode Mansion on 5/30, the digital hitchhiking ghost effect was out of sync with the vehicles. So they weren't where they should be on the mirror.

On 5/31 when I rode they were off completely.

Say what you will, but I've probably been on that ride like 50 times and have no memory of ever seeing that effect not work. So maybe the digital upgrade has some downsides...

I wasn't aware that they had gone digital yet. But I do recall very specifically the hitchhiking ghosts being out of sync as long as it has been open, literally more than a dozen times. It's been a long time since I worked the attraction, but back in the day your lead notified the N.O. attractions Duty Manager and called it in to the dayside facilities crew, but the ride kept going.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I wasn't aware that they had gone digital yet. But I do recall very specifically the hitchhiking ghosts being out of sync as long as it has been open, literally more than a dozen times. It's been a long time since I worked the attraction, but back in the day your lead notified the N.O. attractions Duty Manager and called it in to the dayside facilities crew, but the ride kept going.

I can understand a practical effect not working, especially in the days before computers....

But a completely digital projections should work with 100% reliability, especially the first year it opens.

 

[MK-fan]

I don’t know if anyone remembers the pipes behind the gate as you leave the exit to the attraction, but they were pretty glaring, and this is Disney’s answer to “fixing” the solution:

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don’t know if anyone remembers the pipes behind the gate as you leave the exit to the attraction, but they were pretty glaring, and this is Disney’s answer to “fixing” the solution:

“The physician can bury his mistakes, but the architect can only advise his client to plant vines.”
-Frank Lloyd Wright

 

[DrStarlander]

I don’t know if anyone remembers the pipes behind the gate as you leave the exit to the attraction, but they were pretty glaring, and this is Disney’s answer to “fixing” the solution:

Sadly, some 30 thousands guests a day walk right past this blight on their way out of the historic, classic attraction.
The pipe seen above the wall is one issue (which could have easily been avoided in the architecture process, of course, had they extended the building to have a utility closet/room and, as necessary, an enclosed chase for the plumbing). But clearly there is still a lot of backstage junk seen through the gate, which has not been addressed almost a year later.

The answer is so obviously to just have an opaque wood wall (as used all over the rest of the park for backstage doors) so guests can't see anything back there (and for a short-cut now they could just attach a panel of artificial hedge-greens to the backside of the iron gate, see images below).

There must be some unique set of requirements/objectives driving their desire for a see-through gate. For example, they're worried guests would climb over an opaque wall there and would not be noticed by cast members, so they want other guests to see and "catch" them??

Or unlike other backstage doors, the cluster of utilities here requires -- by code -- some visibility from a distance??

EDIT: And the two other surface-mounted plastic utility boxes, down low, just outside the gate are unconscionable and should be removed/moved. It's as if the architect had no background in themed design and didn't consider at all where this kind of stuff would get located and how visible it would be.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It could be worse. You could be in WDW, looking at the sad, drained remains of the Rivers of America or the mostly walked off AK park or the ugly planter with the forever broken in ground lighting screwed down with cement screws in EPCOT.

 

[DrStarlander]

It could be worse. You could be in WDW, looking at the sad, drained remains of the Rivers of America or the mostly walked off AK park or the ugly planter with the forever broken in ground lighting screwed down with cement screws in EPCOT.

I like that Disney famously (used to) hide their construction, but if I see that activity, it doesn't bother me much because it's temporary (even if for a few years). The Epcot in-ground lighting is bad and a clear technical/engineering failure. The issues with the Madame Leota gift shop are of a different nature altogether. They are not meant as temporary and they are not for the most part technical failures. And they are not -- as some would theorize -- driven by budget limits (because great designers can avoid dumb results with creativity and cleverness, even with a limited budget).

The Madame Leota gift shop failures are that the Imagineers failed in the historical research, creativity (and creative problem-solving), architectural and themed environmental design, site engineering, project management, construction oversight, lighting design, material selection, guest/human-factors considerations, putting on "good show," and in honoring the history of the Haunted Mansion. On nearly every responsibility Imagineering failed, resulting in a giant wart in one of the most high-traffic and venerable places in the park. (Yes, I say "Imagineers" failed because even if they were junior or in-training Imagineers, on-site Imagineers in Anaheim, or even Gensler outside companies working under contract...it doesn't matter, everything seen in the parks is "by" Imagineering as far as the public/customers are concerned).

So I'm sympathetic about the views of the muddy RoA riverbed in MK, but the Madame Leota gift shop is worse I think because we are likely stuck with it for many decades.

 

[mickEblu]

Sadly, some 30 thousands guests a day walk right past this blight on their way out of the historic, classic attraction.
The pipe seen above the wall is one issue (which could have easily been avoided in the architecture process, of course, had they extended the building to have a utility closet/room and, as necessary, an enclosed chase for the plumbing). But clearly there is still a lot of backstage junk seen through the gate, which has not been addressed almost a year later.

The answer is so obviously to just have an opaque wood wall (as used all over the rest of the park for backstage doors) so guests can't see anything back there (and for a short-cut now they could just attach a panel of artificial hedge-greens to the backside of the iron gate, see images below).

There must be some unique set of requirements/objectives driving their desire for a see-through gate. For example, they're worried guests would climb over an opaque wall there and would not be noticed by cast members, so they want other guests to see and "catch" them??

Or unlike other backstage doors, the cluster of utilities here requires -- by code -- some visibility from a distance??

EDIT: And the two other surface-mounted plastic utility boxes, down low, just outside the gate are unconscionable and should be removed/moved. It's as if the architect had no background in themed design and didn't consider at all where this kind of stuff would get located and how visible it would be.

View attachment 882807View attachment 882808

This and TBA will go down as two of the weirdest projects at DLR of all time. Odd decisions seemingly made by amateurs.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sadly, some 30 thousands guests a day walk right past this blight on their way out of the historic, classic attraction.
The pipe seen above the wall is one issue (which could have easily been avoided in the architecture process, of course, had they extended the building to have a utility closet/room and, as necessary, an enclosed chase for the plumbing). But clearly there is still a lot of backstage junk seen through the gate, which has not been addressed almost a year later.

The answer is so obviously to just have an opaque wood wall (as used all over the rest of the park for backstage doors) so guests can't see anything back there (and for a short-cut now they could just attach a panel of artificial hedge-greens to the backside of the iron gate, see images below).

There must be some unique set of requirements/objectives driving their desire for a see-through gate. For example, they're worried guests would climb over an opaque wall there and would not be noticed by cast members, so they want other guests to see and "catch" them??

Or unlike other backstage doors, the cluster of utilities here requires -- by code -- some visibility from a distance??

EDIT: And the two other surface-mounted plastic utility boxes, down low, just outside the gate are unconscionable and should be removed/moved. It's as if the architect had no background in themed design and didn't consider at all where this kind of stuff would get located and how visible it would be.

View attachment 882807View attachment 882808

It’s just poor planning and design. There’s no code requirement for that space to be visible. The only thing that may be driven by code the gate swinging out. I can’t read the sign on the door in the photos so be more certain. One reason for visibility is so that someone in the back of house space doesn’t open the gate into guests who are exiting the attraction. A non-solid fence can also be built with a thinner assembly which seems like another factor as there isn’t a lot of space back there.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I like that Disney famously (used to) hide their construction, but if I see that activity, it doesn't bother me much because it's temporary (even if for a few years). The Epcot in-ground lighting is bad and a clear technical/engineering failure. The issues with the Madame Leota gift shop are of a different nature altogether. They are not meant as temporary and they are not for the most part technical failures. And they are not -- as some would theorize -- driven by budget limits (because great designers can avoid dumb results with creativity and cleverness, even with a limited budget).

The Madame Leota gift shop failures are that the Imagineers failed in the historical research, creativity (and creative problem-solving), architectural and themed environmental design, site engineering, project management, construction oversight, lighting design, material selection, guest/human-factors considerations, putting on "good show," and in honoring the history of the Haunted Mansion. On nearly every responsibility Imagineering failed, resulting in a giant wart in one of the most high-traffic and venerable places in the park. (Yes, I say "Imagineers" failed because even if they were junior or in-training Imagineers, on-site Imagineers in Anaheim, or even Gensler architects working under contract...it doesn't matter, everything seen in the parks is "by" Imagineering as far as the public/customers are concerned).

So I'm sympathetic about the views of the muddy RoA riverbed in MK, but the Madame Leota gift shop is worse I think because we are likely stuck with it for many decades.

I agree the Madame Leota gift shop failure is a bad one. It feels like who ever conceived and installed this had no experience in theme parks and no knowledge about Disneyland, like the requirement was, "Put a gift shop here".

 

[lazyboy97o]

or even Gensler architects working under contract

It’s Universal Creative, not Disney, who has really become fond of Gensler and giving them significant scope. When it comes to Disney the claims are largely just baseless misogyny.

 

[mickEblu]

I wonder what the head of imagineering Bruce Vaughn thinks about Madame Leota’s Gift shop as he walks by it. Or just any Imagineer worth their salt.

 

[DrStarlander]

When it comes to Disney the claims are largely just baseless misogyny.

I recall Paul Pressler (most well-known to Disney Parks fans from DCA 1.0) faced similar criticism about whether his career background in retail was good for the Disney Parks. The Michael Ovitz hire was similarly questioned. I think any time a company hires an outsider or change agent it has obvious risks of not working out.

 

[Nirya]

I recall Paul Pressler (most well-known to Disney Parks fans from DCA 1.0) faced similar criticism about whether his career background in retail was good for the Disney Parks. The Michael Ovitz hire was similarly questioned. I think any time a company hires an outsider or change agent it has obvious risks of not working out.

The Ovitz hire failed less because of Ovitz's qualifications and more because he was undercut by everyone as soon as he officially joined, from Eisner to the rest of the top brass. Disney War had a pretty good synopsis of that period of time and how bad it got for Ovitz.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don’t know if anyone remembers the pipes behind the gate as you leave the exit to the attraction, but they were pretty glaring, and this is Disney’s answer to “fixing” the solution:

I mean it looks at least like they got the "go away green" color right.

I assume the hope is that guests are rushing past it and so won't really notice it. I also wonder how much can actually be seen and noticed when there isn't a camera flash shining a light directly on it, especially at night.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I recall Paul Pressler (most well-known to Disney Parks fans from DCA 1.0) faced similar criticism about whether his career background in retail was good for the Disney Parks. The Michael Ovitz hire was similarly questioned. I think any time a company hires an outsider or change agent it has obvious risks of not working out.

It’s not an issue of criticism. There has been plenty to criticize Walt Disney Imagineering about. What isn’t true is that Barbara brought in a lot of people from Gensler and/or outsourced a lot of work to Gensler. It’s something that was made up to for the purpose of knocking her down before she ever even had her foot in the door.

 

[DrStarlander]

The Ovitz hire failed less because of Ovitz's qualifications and more because he was undercut by everyone as soon as he officially joined, from Eisner to the rest of the top brass. Disney War had a pretty good synopsis of that period of time and how bad it got for Ovitz.

I read Disney War years ago and thanks for the impetus to re-read it. But when an executive does get "undercut," you have to wonder why? The undercutting may be the symptom, not the cause. Do great people just "get undercut"? Isn't the whole point in hiring a leader is to find a leader that has the qualities and does the hard work to form 360-degree connections and earned-trust to not get undercut. When you are paying an executive $100 million or more, yes you may want some brilliant instinct or insight or experience they have, but aren't they also being paid that much because they are uniquely expected to generate such confidence and goodwill from all around them that nobody wants to undercut them?

 

[mickEblu]

The only Disney parks forum where I can be out nerded. ^^^ Love it.

 

[VicariousCorpse]

The answer is so obviously to just have an opaque wood wall (as used all over the rest of the park for backstage doors) so guests can't see anything back there (and for a short-cut now they could just attach a panel of artificial hedge-greens to the backside of the iron gate, see images below).

Most of the backstage doors don't openly directly into the guests paths. Being able to see through the gate is important here.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Most of the backstage doors don't openly directly into the guests paths. Being able to see through the gate is important here.

Is it? Seems like plenty of doors open to guest paths and areas.