Len Testa - “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

[MickeyLuv'r]

. Spontaneity has a cost.

Maybe I'm misreading, but I'd tend to say the opposite. Too much structure makes a vacation less fun.

One of the reasons I've shifted a bit towards Universal instead of WDW is that Universal vacation time is less structured, and that is preferable to prebooking rides/meals at WDW.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Exactly. If Disney didn't raise prices well beyond inflation, parks would be at capacity every single day.

The smart solution is to build more parks and resorts.

 

[Jrb1979]

The smart solution is to build more parks and resorts.

Better yet. Add more attractions to each park. There should be minimum of at least 20 attractions in each park.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Better yet. Add more attractions to each park. There should be minimum of at least 20 attractions in each park.

Fair point. Disney stopped building full parks and started building quarter-day parks ("Oh, but we're gonna fill it in later").

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The smart solution is to build more parks and resorts.

Nope…out of the question

 

[Tha Realest]

The smart solution is to build more parks and resorts.

They have a built in system that disincentivizes meaningful expansion.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There is no such thing as a relaxing vacation with kids.

Guess we did it wrong for about 15 years?

A Disney Cruise where they spend the bulk of their time in the kids club comes close though

200% retail for that

It's an away game, not a vacation.

If you blindly do where they steer you and never set lines or boundaries on value

 

[Nunu]

There is no such thing as a relaxing vacation with kids.

Guess we did it wrong for about 15 years?

Depends on the kids' personalities, their ages, and how many (kids) you take with you, imho. We've been to WDW with a kid twice (brother and nephew). Both were 8yo at the time and very well behaved. We were able to relax and enjoy our vacation both times.

200% retail for that

True dat.

If you blindly do where they steer you and never set lines or boundaries on value

Agreed. Boundaries, lines, and a budget need to be set before checking-in. Once there, it's very easy to end up spending a lot more than you anticipated. We always leave some wiggle room, but not too much that we'll regret it later.

 

[bmr1591]

I was talking to my mom a while back about the first trip we took to Disney World when I was seven. She hasn't been in over a decade and was asking how some of mine and my wife's trips were going. We told her that a friend had given us a stay at the Polynesian for marathon weekend and she reminisced on staying there back in 1998. To use her words, "It was just so expensive. Way too expensive for what felt like a normal hotel room with a little decoration. It cost us around $300 a night!" My wife and I laughed and told her to try $800-$1000+ per night nowadays.

All that said, Disney has always been seen as expensive, but what's most surprising is how people continue to stay for cash at Deluxe resorts when the costs have increased so dramatically. I don't think people's mindsets have changed from back in the 90s. $300 a night is expensive, especially for what you get at any resort Disney has. I don't think people like my parents would have any interest in paying today's prices to stay at any resort. But there's apparently a large group of people who find the costs justifiable, and not just affluent couples with no kids. And it's a large enough group that Disney continues to invest in more and more deluxe resorts.

DVC is a big money maker for them, no question. But my questions for y'all is this: do you believe there's a group of people who really think $500+ per night at any resort is worth it for the amenities given or are these once-in-a-lifetimers splurging? If we (at least those of us here) can all agree the pricing has gone way out of alignment with regular inflation, specifically on resort stays, what number does Disney inevitably stop at? What's the straw that would break the camel's back? Finally, do you believe DVC is to blame for the inflated costs so that people purchasing at $30000+ can justify the purchase by getting 'value' out of it in a shorter time frame? And if so, again, when does DVC reach its breaking point?

 

[DisneyHead123]

I was talking to my mom a while back about the first trip we took to Disney World when I was seven. She hasn't been in over a decade and was asking how some of mine and my wife's trips were going. We told her that a friend had given us a stay at the Polynesian for marathon weekend and she reminisced on staying there back in 1998. To use her words, "It was just so expensive. Way too expensive for what felt like a normal hotel room with a little decoration. It cost us around $300 a night!" My wife and I laughed and told her to try $800-$1000+ per night nowadays.

All that said, Disney has always been seen as expensive, but what's most surprising is how people continue to stay for cash at Deluxe resorts when the costs have increased so dramatically. I don't think people's mindsets have changed from back in the 90s. $300 a night is expensive, especially for what you get at any resort Disney has. I don't think people like my parents would have any interest in paying today's prices to stay at any resort. But there's apparently a large group of people who find the costs justifiable, and not just affluent couples with no kids. And it's a large enough group that Disney continues to invest in more and more deluxe resorts.

DVC is a big money maker for them, no question. But my questions for y'all is this: do you believe there's a group of people who really think $500+ per night at any resort is worth it for the amenities given or are these once-in-a-lifetimers splurging? If we (at least those of us here) can all agree the pricing has gone way out of alignment with regular inflation, specifically on resort stays, what number does Disney inevitably stop at? What's the straw that would break the camel's back? Finally, do you believe DVC is to blame for the inflated costs so that people purchasing at $30000+ can justify the purchase by getting 'value' out of it in a shorter time frame? And if so, again, when does DVC reach its breaking point?

I really don’t understand who the target audience for rooms that hover around $1,000 after taxes is, honestly. I can’t comment because I have no idea who’s using those rooms.

 

[jah4955]

I was talking to my mom a while back about the first trip we took to Disney World when I was seven. She hasn't been in over a decade and was asking how some of mine and my wife's trips were going. We told her that a friend had given us a stay at the Polynesian for marathon weekend and she reminisced on staying there back in 1998.

I'm grateful I could enjoy the deluxe lobbies...esp. Poly...for "free," as I only stayed at values/moderates when they had value/moderate pricing. One of the absolutely most enjoyable parts of all WDW imo was that lobby, before they decided to say, "hey, let's go as polar-opposite as we can with this!!!!" Nope...even though over a decade won't get over this unless/until they put it back (not holding my breath lol).

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I really don’t understand who the target audience for rooms that hover around $1,000 after taxes is, honestly. I can’t comment because I have no idea who’s using those rooms.

Based on how much demand there is, quite a lot it appears. Would I? No way. But I suppose for the near endless supply of "once in a lifetime" travellers, vloggers, rich people, etc. It's not crazy for them.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Based on how much demand there is, quite a lot it appears. Would I? No way. But I suppose for the near endless supply of "once in a lifetime" travellers, vloggers, rich people, etc. It's not crazy for them.

I feel you would need to be making around half a million annually for that price range to make sense. Or have some special circumstances, like having a 6 figure salary and also living at home with your parents. It’s hard for me to imagine that there are enough people who fit that description and also visit Disney, to keep all the deluxe rooms full. There must be though I guess, because there haven’t been enormous discounts on rooms.

I’ve pondered this, and I just don’t get it. Like a ten day stay in some Disney hotels is about a third of the way to an entire DVC. That would be like if your vacation rental car was a third the cost of your actual car (not a perfect analogy, but close enough.) It just boggles my mind.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Based on how much demand there is, quite a lot it appears. Would I? No way. But I suppose for the near endless supply of "once in a lifetime" travellers, vloggers, rich people, etc. It's not crazy for them.

I've talked to several travel agents that always have a few stories of being fearful of relaying the price of a trip only to hear "ok, that sounds fine" - definitely enough people out there willing to spend money

 

[BrianLo]

Our Universal AP's expire in November. Yesterday, I booked two roundtrip flights with points and Universal Dockside for $92 a night the first week of November. Throw in a couple of one day Epic passes and I'm at around $700 for four nights. I used to be able to do something similar at WDW but the AP's now have a higher sunk cost.

Other than hotels, I don’t think that pricing edge with their AP product is long for this world. It already isn’t if you attend Epic more than a single day in your year. They’ll probably keep their top end passes maybe 100-150$ behind Disney in lock step when Epic joins the mix. Though that largely reflects 3 v 4 parks. The bottom end passes for Florida residents are already the same.

I’m not criticizing either company, but Comcast’s goal is to speed run Universal parks towards pricing parity. We’ve about finally reached the goal over the last ten years.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Based on how much demand there is, quite a lot it appears. Would I? No way. But I suppose for the near endless supply of "once in a lifetime" travellers, vloggers, rich people, etc. It's not crazy for them.

What are you talking about?

I've talked to several travel agents that always have a few stories of being fearful of relaying the price of a trip only to hear "ok, that sounds fine" - definitely enough people out there willing to spend money

A couple, huh?

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

What are you talking about?

A couple, huh?

I'm talking about the fact that these hotels still clearly have people in them to warrant such prices.

If there was no one going to these hotels and properties, why wouldn't Disney just lower the price or make a deal that effectively lowers the price year-round. They have done both of these before, it wouldn't be crazy. The truth is that enough people are willing to pay it.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I feel you would need to be making around half a million annually for that price range to make sense. Or have some special circumstances, like having a 6 figure salary and also living at home with your parents. It’s hard for me to imagine that there are enough people who fit that description and also visit Disney, to keep all the deluxe rooms full. There must be though I guess, because there haven’t been enormous discounts on rooms.

I’ve pondered this, and I just don’t get it. Like a ten day stay in some Disney hotels is about a third of the way to an entire DVC. That would be like if your vacation rental car was a third the cost of your actual car (not a perfect analogy, but close enough.) It just boggles my mind.

Here's the thing about that, I don't think most people staying at a deluxe are staying for that long or even their whole vacation. I've heard from plenty of people that they stay at a deluxe for 1-2 nights and then a moderate/value for the other nights. In fact, Disney encourages this with luggage transfers. It would be pretty easy to do on a park day especially if you don't have your own car/too much stuff. Pack everything up the night before, send it off to Disney before you leave for the park and get on your resorts bus, enjoy your day, then just board the other resorts bus from the park and your stuff is already there.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Here's the thing about that, I don't think most people staying at a deluxe are staying for that long or even their whole vacation. I've heard from plenty of people that they stay at a deluxe for 1-2 nights and then a moderate/value for the other nights. In fact, Disney encourages this with luggage transfers. It would be pretty easy to do on a park day especially if you don't have your own car/too much stuff. Pack everything up the night before, send it off to Disney before you leave for the park and get on your resorts bus, enjoy your day, then just board the other resorts bus from the park and your stuff is already there.

That's true, we have done that (though even when we did it was for one of the cheaper Deluxes at Animal Kingdom Lodge)

There are also comparatively fewer of them - for example (ex DVC) per Touring Plans the Poly has 479 room, the Contemporary as 659, and the Grand Flo has 867 .. that is 2,005 total for the monorail resorts .. Pop Century has 2,880 alone, Port Orleans Riverside has 2,048 alone ... the All Stars combined have 5,444

Obviously cherry picking a bit, but even if they leave 10% of the deluxes empty vs being aggressive with the pricing, that isn't that many # of room vs being aggressive with the pricing for an All Star to get them filled

You don't need *that* many people willing to pay a lot of money to get those deluxe resorts reasonably filled

 

[Disneyfanman]

It's been awhile since I have posted. I'm solidly upper middle class and we feel priced out. Prior to COVID we were regular visitors. Post-Covid we have been once. My kids are grown but we still get together for family vacations. Just not to visit the mouse.

I do think this is an interesting topic. For years we had mastered hacks to get the most out of our budget. Then all at once a bunch of things happened. Rapid increases in food, entry fees, etc. Paying for line breaking services. Magical Express discontinued. We priced a trip after a 2 year gap and it felt like it had almost doubled. We were astounded by the difference in the cost of everything. A trip costing 6,000 was now costing 10,000.

It isn't just Disney. The price of life has rises for everything else. So we have less margins and at the same time a trip to Disney had risen must faster than everything else. A lot faster.

Could we make it work? Probably, but it really feels like we can find other places to go for our money. I will say that I know plenty of people in my income bracket / age that still find a way. I know young families with lower incomes that do it. I honestly don't know how, but They are still making it work.

At some point the growth in the Theme Parks / Attractions / Experiences division will stop. Disney isn't going to lower prices. They may reduce the frequency of raising them. I just wonder when that will happen.

So in the end, I agree with the idea that Disney's largest demographic audience for it's parks are less and less likely to be able to justify a trip. It does feel like a crises is looming for them.