Len Testa - “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

[Sorcerer Mickey]

If we are truthful to ourselves, we spend all this money, do all the planning, deal with all the stress to prepare for our WDW vacation, that once there, if we relax, WE ARE NOT GETTING OUR MONEY'S WORTH, so we go all out to do the most at WDW!

Then we get home from our vacation and need a vacation to recover from our vacation.

There is no such thing as a relaxing vacation with kids.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Disney Death March

Wonder if you could trademark that. Prolly not cause the Disney name is in it. But if you could….

Merch and marketing possibilities would be endless. I’d invest.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

There is no such thing as a relaxing vacation with kids.

A Disney Cruise where they spend the bulk of their time in the kids club comes close though

 

[Tha Realest]

Listen. I dk the price of Every destination in the world all im saying is this from my experience and those of close family and friends every place that people go to is expensive and has seen price increases for the most part. Are there discounts and exceptions to the rule? Im sure but lets face it. Disney is guilty of many things but singling them out as the ones who are raising prices to me is unfair. This is like the 4th different “hit piece” on them

They’re the single biggest vacation destination in the continental U.S. They have an outsized presence in the travel and tourism industry. It is not singling out, nor unfair, to report facts.

If those reported facts come off as a negative to Disney, well then, there is an easy way for them to correct it which does not involve the functional equivalent of a “coupon day” during lulls in the calendar or an occasional 25% discount on the rooms.

 

[Doberge]

I still see it all as a "live entertainment" issue not a Disney problem. Last summer I paid $436/night (with all taxes and fees) for a basic Legoland Florida hotel room with a Aaa discount. Went to Dollywood this summer and while the admission price was less, parking was $25 and food and drink were as expensive to more expensive than Disney (festival foods were more expensive and lower quality than EPCOT festivals) . We have NFL season tickets and looking past ticket costs, food and beverage is more expensive this year than Disney (same Dasani bottle is $6.25, one beer is $17, and chicken tenders with fries is $16.50 without a drink). Did Epic Universe this summer and found their paid express pass service way more offensively priced than Disney's lightning lane. Paid $392 for Sapphire Falls just to take advantage of early admission. Food and bev were also from as expensive to more expensive than Disney. National music and comedy touring acts are also expensive.

It's all highly priced along with home ownership, rent, transportation, insurance in many places. The real irony is that increasingly more Americans are finding it more difficult as adults to live the American life they thought they'd live back when kids/young adults. This includes but is not limited to Disney.

 

[mysto]

Regarding the stress and chaos of a Disney trip, kids or not.

My main hobby as a young adult was river running, whitewater expeditions. Not trips that were bought but organized and executed by me and my friends. It is a ton of work, meals camps permits people transport gogogo.

Then we launch the boats.
...and everything stops. It's shocking how sudden and complete the quiet is after days of solid chaos. Launching is one of those magic moments.

All day you just watch the world float by, the only decisions are where to stop and look around, where to camp that night. you can really settle in to it for a week, or if you're lucky several weeks.

A well planned Disney trip can be like that. It has been for me. I know where to be and when so I just watch it happen as I walk around. Spontaneity has a cost.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I haven't been back since 2013 and it was because it was the first time I felt like Disney was nickel and diming me and it significantly diminished my enjoyment of that trip. I could afford an annual trip, but I don't feel like the company deserves my money.

Trip Report from 2013

 

[Splash4eva]

They’re the single biggest vacation destination in the continental U.S. They have an outsized presence in the travel and tourism industry. It is not singling out, nor unfair, to report facts.

If those reported facts come off as a negative to Disney, well then, there is an easy way for them to correct it which does not involve the functional equivalent of a “coupon day” during lulls in the calendar or an occasional 25% discount on the rooms.

So using your words and facts they should charge accordingly. If someone has a product thats in high demand then they should be compensated accordingly. Which they are and trying to target as many audiences as possible with these high end up charges which seem to be pretty successful and plenty of people purchasing them. Same with these AH events and Party nights. Like i said. I would never defend this company for a ton of what they have done and destroyed. I think Iger is the most over rated CEO on Wall St because to me this stock has been dormant for the biggest bull run ever with all that being said they can justify the prices because of the product they have.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

The point was about how WDW reflects larger cultural trends vis a vis a middle class lifestyle that has increasingly vanished.

As one of the letters to the editor said about the article, when WDW opened it would’ve been considered un-American to blatantly let the wealthiest customers pay their way into skipping lines and now it seems like the most American thing in the world.

I also think this is the article's main point. It's not just Disney - lots of other industries are using a high/low product strategy.

Indeed. I think all the discussion of the specifics of Disney's changing price strategy and offerings is missing the point of the article.

Disney was basically being used in this instance as an example of what was perhaps the ultimate aspirational but achievable middle class vacation destination adapting to a new reality in America:

That middle class has so eroded in size and in purchasing power — and the wealth of our top earners has so exploded — that America’s most important market today is its affluent. As more companies tailor their offerings to the top, the experiences we once shared are increasingly differentiated by how much we have.

What the article shows is that people in what once would have been considered the middle class can still vacation at WDW, but it requires a lot more sacrifice to afford that vacation and then you will enjoy a different level of experience than more affluent consumers. Overall, though, the suggestion is that Disney is just adapting to the changing realities of the US market as the middle class has been largely hollowed out and wealth at the upper ends of the income scale has exploded.

 

[lentesta]

There is no such thing as a relaxing vacation with kids.

It's an away game, not a vacation.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Indeed. I think all the discussion of the specifics of Disney's changing price strategy and offerings is missing the point of the article.

Disney was basically being used in this instance as an example of what was perhaps the ultimate aspirational but achievable middle class vacation destination adapting to a new reality in America:


What the article shows is that people in what once would have been considered the middle class can still vacation at WDW, but it requires a lot more sacrifice to afford that vacation and then you will enjoy a different level of experience than more affluent consumers. Overall, though, the suggestion is that Disney is just adapting to the changing realities of the US market as the middle class has been largely hollowed out and wealth at the upper ends of the income scale has exploded.

Definitely think it makes sense and is true if using a Disney trip as a proxy for something that was once views as attainable by many and currently is not.

And that partly has to due with their price increases (be it Disney, Universal, cruising, Broadway, etc) but more so due to the cost increase of daily life (especially housing) far outpacing wage increases

But I think when positioned or interpreted as "Disney used to be soooo cheap and now is just for the ultra rich when all the alternatives are still cheap" I think isn't accurate

 

[LSLS]

Listen. I dk the price of Every destination in the world all im saying is this from my experience and those of close family and friends every place that people go to is expensive and has seen price increases for the most part. Are there discounts and exceptions to the rule? Im sure but lets face it. Disney is guilty of many things but singling them out as the ones who are raising prices to me is unfair. This is like the 4th different “hit piece” on them

You literally asked what destination hasn't raised prices, I was simply stating that funny enough, many theme parks have not, in large part because they have added other revenue streams. Disney added the revenue streams and continued upping the price. There is also the amount added that makes a difference. A trip to the outer banks has gone up like $1,000 over 20 years including food. Disney has gone up probably like $3,000+. The one complaint on blaming Disney could be Universal is just as guilty, but all destination increases are not equal.

 

[Laketravis]

Our Universal AP's expire in November. Yesterday, I booked two roundtrip flights with points and Universal Dockside for $92 a night the first week of November. Throw in a couple of one day Epic passes and I'm at around $700 for four nights. I used to be able to do something similar at WDW but the AP's now have a higher sunk cost.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

But I think when positioned or interpreted as "Disney used to be soooo cheap and now is just for the ultra rich when all the alternatives are still cheap" I think isn't accurate

Completely agree. The article is making that broader point, so, while it's perfectly fine to consider whether you find Disney still worth the money, that's not the point I think the authors were making. That point is also the opposite of what some here seem to be suggesting, which is that this is just a Disney issue.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

service way more offensively priced than Disney's lightning lane. Paid $392 for Sapphire Falls just to take advantage of early admission. Food and bev were also from as expensive to more expensive than Disney. National music and comedy touring acts are also expensive.

It's all highly priced along with home ownership, rent, transportation, insurance in many places. The real irony is that increasingly more Americans are finding it more difficult as adults to live the American life they thought they'd live back when kids/young adults. This includes but is not limited to Disney.

Wait. I like Sapphire, so I always price it out, but I don't end up staying there because SF+EP always comes out more $ than Porto, RP, or HR.

Mind - for everyone reading this thread- Universal now uses rather dynamic hotel pricing.

I booked Helios when it was first offered. But then I checked back periodically, and the price came down. I saved $60/night.

I was originally going to also stay at Royal Pacific, but the price of Portofino dropped so low that I saved over $170/night by swapping to Portofino. (It was initially priced higher than RP.)

The price of EP is also dynamic. It goes up as your dates get closer. I missed out on buying it when the price was low, so I didn't end up buying it for Epic.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I posted this three years ago and it's worse today than it was then ...

1982 (opening of EPCOT):
One Day Ticket = $15
Annual Pass = $100

Adjusted for Inflation in 2022 (1982 prices):
One Day Ticket = $45
Annual Pass = $303

Actual Ticket Prices in 2022:
One Day Ticket = $124 ($189 over peak Christmas)
One Day Parkhopper = $194 ($268 over peak Christmas)
Annual Pass = $1490


And this ....

WDW used to be much, much more affordable. From the day the Magic Kingdom opened until EPCOT Center opened, a park ticket (adjusted for today's inflation) was about $25 a day. When EPCOT opened, the price jumped to about $40 a day (in today's prices). It steadily rose through the 80s and was about $65 all through the 1990s. The big greedy increase occurred from 2000 to 2010 when the price (in today's dollars) went from $70 to $100. Ten years later, we're now at $130. If park tickets today were the same value as they were in 1982 (start of EPCOT), they'd be $40, not $130.

And that's just the park tickets. Factor increases in costs for food, hotels, parking, merchandise, after-hours extra ticket celebrations, reduced hours of operation, etc. They are intentionally pricing the middle-class out of the parks.

Another example: In 1982, the annual pass was $100. In today's dollars, that would be $280, not $1,300.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I posted this three years ago and it's worse today than it was then ...

1982 (opening of EPCOT):
One Day Ticket = $15
Annual Pass = $100

Adjusted for Inflation in 2022 (1982 prices):
One Day Ticket = $45
Annual Pass = $303

Actual Ticket Prices in 2022:
One Day Ticket = $124 ($189 over peak Christmas)
One Day Parkhopper = $194 ($268 over peak Christmas)
Annual Pass = $1490


And this ....

WDW used to be much, much more affordable. From the day the Magic Kingdom opened until EPCOT Center opened, a park ticket (adjusted for today's inflation) was about $25 a day. When EPCOT opened, the price jumped to about $40 a day (in today's prices). It steadily rose through the 80s and was about $65 all through the 1990s. The big greedy increase occurred from 2000 to 2010 when the price (in today's dollars) went from $70 to $100. Ten years later, we're now at $130. If park tickets today were the same value as they were in 1982 (start of EPCOT), they'd be $40, not $130.

And that's just the park tickets. Factor increases in costs for food, hotels, parking, merchandise, after-hours extra ticket celebrations, reduced hours of operation, etc. They are intentionally pricing the middle-class out of the parks.

Another example: In 1982, the annual pass was $100. In today's dollars, that would be $280, not $1,300.

I don't think many people would object to the idea that a WDW vacation used to be more affordable for those on an average income than it is now, because that is objectively true. The NYTimes article makes the point that it was never a cheap vacation as such, but a realistic one for a middle class family.

Again, though, the point of the article is that what has happened at Disney reflects a broader trend in corporate America which is responding to changing income distribution. Specifically, the middle class has shrunk and become more precarious while another group of higher income earners have emerged that have very large amounts of disposable income. So, businesses like Disney increasingly pitch their options at the latter group through raising prices and uncharge options while still providing a narrow, lesser option to experience their products for their more traditional middle class customers who can't afford all those upcharges.

That doesn't mean Disney shouldn't also be providing a better product or is above criticism for what it offers, but it does provide context beyond Disney being greedy and Bob Iger liking money. It should also provide food for thought about whether this is a specifically Disney problem or a bigger issue.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I don't think many people would object to the idea that a WDW vacation used to be more affordable for those on an average income than it is now, because that is objectively true. The NYTimes article makes the point that it was never a cheap vacation as such, but a realistic one for a middle class family.

Again, though, the point of the article is that what has happened at Disney reflects a broader trend in corporate America which is responding to changing income distribution. Specifically, the middle class has shrunk and become more precarious while another group of higher income earners have emerged that have very large amounts of disposable income. So, businesses like Disney increasingly pitch their options at the latter group through raising prices and uncharge options while still providing a narrow, lesser option to experience their products for their more traditional middle class customers who can't afford all those upcharges.

That doesn't mean Disney shouldn't also be providing a better product or is above criticism for what it offers, but it does provide context beyond Disney being greedy and Bob Iger liking money. It should also provide food for thought about whether this is a specifically Disney problem or a bigger issue.

Exactly. If Disney didn't raise prices well beyond inflation, parks would be at capacity every single day.

 

[jah4955]

I posted this three years ago and it's worse today than it was then ...

1982 (opening of EPCOT):
One Day Ticket = $15
Annual Pass = $100

Adjusted for Inflation in 2022 (1982 prices):
One Day Ticket = $45
Annual Pass = $303

Actual Ticket Prices in 2022:
One Day Ticket = $124 ($189 over peak Christmas)
One Day Parkhopper = $194 ($268 over peak Christmas)
Annual Pass = $1490


And this ....

WDW used to be much, much more affordable. From the day the Magic Kingdom opened until EPCOT Center opened, a park ticket (adjusted for today's inflation) was about $25 a day. When EPCOT opened, the price jumped to about $40 a day (in today's prices). It steadily rose through the 80s and was about $65 all through the 1990s. The big greedy increase occurred from 2000 to 2010 when the price (in today's dollars) went from $70 to $100. Ten years later, we're now at $130. If park tickets today were the same value as they were in 1982 (start of EPCOT), they'd be $40, not $130.

And that's just the park tickets. Factor increases in costs for food, hotels, parking, merchandise, after-hours extra ticket celebrations, reduced hours of operation, etc. They are intentionally pricing the middle-class out of the parks.

Another example: In 1982, the annual pass was $100. In today's dollars, that would be $280, not $1,300.

Of course I'd like the prices to be much lower and Disney to not outpace inflation so substantially but just a few things which temper these numbers;

1. For most of the pre-Epcot history of Magic Kingdom access was thru General Admission PLUS individual tickets for each of most of their attractions.
2. There is a higher proportion of more technically-advanced attractions. I'm sure there are other non-inflationary reasons why it costs more to run a theme park today than in the '80's or '90s.
3. It's still a value compared to many other "entertainment" options. As mentioned earlier in the thread Disney's hotels are relatively on-par with comparable hotels...One of my best friends brought up another great comparison last night: a football game. The cost per hour was roughly a couple hundred dollars an hour vs. only $13 an hour if you spend a "typical" full day at a Disney park. That's not much more than a "per hour" cost for going to most movie theaters.
4. They don't seem to care that the current rates result in comparatively lower attendance....at least now. If/when they do get skittish they'll have more deals (like they have for relative off-seasons for meal-plans and hotels). For example, 2009 they offered free birthday access no strings attached. 2010 "give a day get a day." That was a worse time for our economy than 2025 in my opinion.

 

[larryz]

I read this article last week and didn't see the angle or the purpose. It felt like a failed attempt at an incendiary poor vs. rich story.

I saw more of a puff-piece for the Premier Lightning Lane.