MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Tha Realest]

Disney DOES NOT HAVE TO REPLACE OLD ATTRACTIONS TO BUILD NEW ONES. That is a CHOICE, and it is a choice they ONLY make regularly in Florida, the resort in which there is the LEAST reason to make that choice.

I have a theory that WDW internally has a finite cap on how high they will permit their operational costs to go. It’s why I think we’re seeing a replacement of operationally (think Splash Mountain AA maintenance, River boat operations) or entertainment CM intensive attractions. And it’s why we’re not seeing much in the way of classic expansion that extends out the footprint or requires big increases in staffing.

 

[donaldtoo]

How is something being more opening ended ridiculously convoluted?

Adventureland isn't set in one time period ... Fantasyland isn't set it one time period, tomorrow land isn't set in one time period

Why is it now convoluted for Frontierland to be more expansive in its scope?

Adventureland implies general adventure, no matter the time or place.
Fantasyland implies general fantasy, no matter the time or place.
Tomorrowland implies general tomorrow, no matter the time or place, as long as it’s tomorrow.
Again, Frontierland, to me anyway, implies old west frontier (around 1870) and that’s the way it was originally all set up, sans the already discussed CBJ.
Everything from Pecos Bill to BTMR to ROA and the Liberty Belle to TSI, etc. were all themed for that era.
Heck, if it’s all suddenly such an “open-ended frontier” now, Iger should buy the rights to Star Trek, ‘cause you know…”Space: the final frontier”, and shoehorn an attraction based on that in there.
Where does the “open-ended” end…?!?!?!
Might as well just rename it “Whateverland”.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I’ve always associated Frontierland with old west frontier, but after MKSR was cancelled, they didn’t wanna’ shelve CBJ, so Frontierland was the most logical place to locate it.

"was the most logical place" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

It implies it really didn't belong there because it (the CBJ) wasn't, as you say the "old west frontier."

But... gotta stick it somewhere!

But when you try to make a lot of very disparate attractions *fit* into a small list of thematic lands, you're gonna get a lot of "doesn't fit, but, it's the most logical place."

My solution is to rename the land (and consequently, it's overarching theme) to something broader. Call it "Americana" or "Continental U.S.A" and suddenly, everything logically fits.

 

[donaldtoo]

Its not that people complain on this site. Fine, everyone has their opinions. But some people post all day long. Just every other post is the SAME person saying the SAME thing. I love the discussions, but they are mostly populated by a few posters just arguing their same point again and again ad nauseam. Maybe there should be a limit. Like after ten posts in a day you get a notification that tells you to go outside and play in the sunshine. Or a note that says “thank you; your opinion has been noted. Now it is time to give others the chance to express their opinion”…..

Yes, that’ll go over like a loud, smelly fart in church.

 

[TheRealSkull]

It was rumored in 2012-13 that a copy of California Adventure's Cars Land would be built in DHS in the space where Galaxy's Edge currently sits. The then-rumored Star Wars Land would have taken over the Echo Lake/Indiana Jones area. I'm a little irritated they didn't go this route, because I feel like DHS would have had a better layout than what we currently have today.

Who's really to say what they would have done, but if they had gone this direction, Cars in Frontierland might have seemed redundant.

 

[donaldtoo]

"was the most logical place" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

It implies it really didn't belong there because it (the CBJ) wasn't, as you say the "old west frontier."

But... gotta stick it somewhere!

But when you try to make a lot of very disparate attractions *fit* into a small list of thematic lands, you're gonna get a lot of "doesn't fit, but, it's the most logical place."

My solution is to rename the land (and consequently, it's overarching theme) to something broader. Call it "Americana" or "Continental U.S.A" and suddenly, everything logically fits.

“Heavy lifting” on whose part…? I didn’t detect any heavy lifting for me.
Ultimately, IMO, and I’m not implying, I’m saying, it doesn’t really belong in Frontierland, but where else were they gonna’ “stick it”…Fantasyland, Tomorrowland…? You make the call.

As far as your second to last paragraph goes…
Yes, yes you will. Pretty much what I was saying.

I already came up with a new name for “Frontierland” back there in another post…
“Whateverland”.

 

[BrianLo]

From all the information we have, the current plan was an extremely last minute decision made by management shortly before D23. The alternative plan that was abandoned at the last minute would have involved the construction of several new attractions “Beyond Thunder Mountain” and elsewhere without replacing key park elements. We know this plan existed - Disney showed it off at the previous D23!

I just wanted to pull this quote out, this was not the case.

The problem is we had a number of fake insiders peddling Disney’s own old plans. It’s classically what occurs before every conference. The most last minute project was pulling the Monsters Coaster off the shelf six months prior to the conference. Just the attraction, the rest of the land still wasn’t fully formulated. Cars was a good 12-18 months developed by the time of D23; it wasn’t last minute.

The prior “plans” for beyond big thunder were thrown together last minute as an audience test balloon.

Now, they thought about this for a while and picked this option probably irks you more.

 

[FutureCEO]

I would hope Tomorrowland Speedway closes after this opens.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Adventureland implies general adventure, no matter the time or place.
Fantasyland implies general fantasy, no matter the time or place.
Tomorrowland implies general tomorrow, no matter the time or place, as long as it’s tomorrow.
Again, Frontierland, to me anyway, implies old west frontier (around 1870) and that’s the way it was originally all set up, sans the already discussed CBJ.
Everything from Pecos Bill to BTMR to ROA and the Liberty Belle to TSI, etc. were all themed for that era.
Heck, if it’s all suddenly such an “open-ended frontier” now, Iger should buy the rights to Star Trek, ‘cause you know…”Space: the final frontier”, and shoehorn an attraction based on that in there.
Where does the “open-ended” end…?!?!?!
Might as well just rename it “Whateverland”.

Guess we shall see - to me it is now the equivalent of North America Adventureland while regular Adventureland covers rest of the world

Yes it is definitely different than the original plan for it - which either can be accepted or not & but I think big difference b/w broadening to include "National Parks" and "Outer space" but maybe those are equivalent to you

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

This is not a “both sides” issue. The Rivers are an integral part of the park. They are central to the narrative and aesthetics of a huge, central part of the resort and three headliner attractions. This is not about folks who like to ride Mark Twain. From a storytelling and design standpoint, the choices Disney is making are creatively indefensible.

The issue is that most of the people you're interacting with here do not look at theme parks as an artistic medium, so they will never understand this.

 

[Brer Panther]

Y'know what the car version of J. Audubon Woodlore reminds me of? There was an entire episode of Amphibia that was just "Hey, these characters are frog versions of Grunkle Stan and Soos from Gravity Falls! Y'all remember Gravity Falls?!".

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

That's nice and all, but your perspective is not shared by the large majority of people.

How dismissive. It was certainly a perspective shared by the people who created the damn place.

Imagine saying this to Walt Disney, who most definitely understood that they were creating art of cultural significance. Or John Hench, who wrote an entire book about it.

 

[LSLS]

Not to wade all the way in on this, but I don't think RoA going away is inherently bad. I think what people have more of an issue with is if the replacement will have the same level of immersion for the surrounding lands that they feel with it currently. The thing I think Disney has really lost is the idea that details matter. People may not notice little details (or at least may not notice them consciously), but they are what set the parks apart. I was always amazed when I went on the Keys tour 20ish years ago at all the extra little details throughout the park I never noticed that really add to the theme. I think the issue at least for me is I have 0 faith that they will have the same attention to detail for how the new lands are viewed from other areas, or how the lands and rides incorporate together.

 

[The Mom]

Please stay on topic. Thank you.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

Quote from Walt Disney himself at the Disneyland dedication ceremony:

"Before you enter this realm, I'd like to read this dedication -- which will be inscribed on a plaque:​

'Frontierland: It is here that we experience the story of our country's past -- the color, romance, and drama of frontier America as it developed from wilderness trails to roads, riverboats and civilization; a tribute to the faith, courage, and ingenuity of our hearty pioneers who blazed the trails and made this progress possible.'"​

Like every other land at Magic Kingdom, Frontierland is not and never has been about a specific decade or zip code. Frontierland is and always has been about ideas -- "faith, courage, and ingenuity" -- taught to us by a broader time and place in history -- America beyond its original European settlements (which are already represented by Liberty Square). When you walk into Frontierland, you're quite literally heading west from polished colonial settlements into rougher untamed wilderness.

Did original attractions refer to specific years (1870s) and specific places West of the Mississippi? Absolutely. But that is just part of immersing us in specific stories. Jungle Cruise and Pirates of the Caribbean take us to wildly different time periods, and they do so purposefully to give us genuine-feeling experiences, but they exist together in a land that covers an even broader set of places and times that still feel extremely cohesive around core ideas.

Frontierland can have individual experiences take us to specific times/places to support the broader ideas Walt Disney described above without restricting them. Riding off-road vehicles through "wilderness trails and roads" is absolutely consistent Frontierland and the pioneer feeling of venturing into uncharted/wild terrain, and gives us a different lens into its core ideas beyond the 1870s (which Splash Mountain / TBA expanded and re-expanded decades ago)

I think that Disney's push for IP lands has gotten people trained to think lands need to be about one ultra specific time, place, story, and set of characters. Disney's original lands were much deeper in concept, and I for one appreciate we're not getting "Cars Land" at Magic Kingdom, but rather, an expansion of Frontierland which are very different things.

 

[Bocabear]

yeah but no....Frontierland was definitely set in a broad time frame and place.. The Monument Valley area of the West being directly next to mountains designed to look like automobile parts and cars with googly eyes has nothing to do with the American Frontier... It is all a mish-mash that could have been avoided by building this whole thing at DHS... Or changing the IP completely and it's styling to be a real Western landscape with cars from an earlier era....At least something that would make it feel correct for the park.... this just feels like a sore thumb...

 

[Incomudro]

I personally don't understand how anyone could love the Disney of today. They are a creatively bankrupt organization that buys up other companies (Pixar, Marvel, Lucasfilm) to create the illusion that they can still create, mis-manage those companies to the point where Pixar films are now mediocre at best and The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy which threw most of what made Star Wars great in the toilet. It is a soulless money-grubbing machine that only maintains it's popularity and respect because of what it was in the past. They are no better or worse than any other soulless corporation all they exist for now is to make money which is sad because to many of us they used to be much more.

I wish I could say this isn't true.

 

[Chi84]

Well, since you asked, I went back through my posts, and, well, yeah, I'm kinda negative. That's because there's just a lot a bad truths out there!

Anyway, here are some "positive" posts. (They were hard to find.)



That was serious, not ironic.

Proof! I hope it makes you feel better that someone so "negative" can actually like something.

Shoot. This is off-topic, Mom, sorry. I was just answering a direct question.

I actually deleted the question since it was off topic.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

yeah but no....Frontierland was definitely set in a broad time frame and place.. The Monument Valley area of the West being directly next to mountains designed to look like automobile parts and cars with googly eyes has nothing to do with the American Frontier... It is all a mish-mash that could have been avoided by building this whole thing at DHS... Or changing the IP completely and it's styling to be a real Western landscape with cars from an earlier era....At least something that would make it feel correct for the park.... this just feels like a sore thumb...

Splash Mountain (talking animated animals in the South) right next to Big Thunder Mountain (ghost town mine train in Utah/Arizona) was already a "clash" nobody cared about or potentially even realized because the concepts were executed flawlessly and the styles were realized in a complementary way. With the Cars expansion of Frontierland, it seems as though the new mountain and river/creek will serve as a natural buffer from a lot of existing attractions. If you look at the latest art, the Cars ride appears to go through a canyon / geyser-filled area around where Big Thunder is so that the visuals and transitions are complementary

But to say talking cars cannot exist next to a ghost town mine train is to question why singing birds are next to a boat ride jumping around major world rivers next to a boat ride with talking pirate skeletons

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ]

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I would hope Tomorrowland Speedway closes after this opens.

Why would it? They're two tonally different attractions.