Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[MrPromey]

I feel like the opening version of Epcot would have been even better received if it had opened with prior years of information and tracking of the project leading up to its opening. If more people had been primed to expect something completely different than Magic Kingdom, more people would not have been disappointed by it when they finally visited.

I didn't see Epcot until 1994, which was basically the final year of "original Epcot" but also it had been open long enough that people knew what to expect. I know as a kid in 1994 I didn't care about World Showcase at all, but I loved Future World.

Excellent point.

 

[MrPromey]

Park hopping from USF/IOA to the Epic resort area is unfortunately such a chore that I can’t see myself doing it.

It's a 14 minute bus ride. I think how smooth that ends up being comes down to how many buses they're willing to have going back-and-forth all day to reduce/eliminate the wait times.

... Although Citywalk being between the two parks and the busses at the main campus is another issue.

 

[hopemax]

What if people used Hard Rock as a transfer point instead of the bus hub?

 

[DarkMetroid567]

It's a 14 minute bus ride. I think how smooth that ends up being comes down to how many buses they're willing to have going back-and-forth all day to reduce/eliminate the wait times.

... Although Citywalk being between the two parks and the busses at the main campus is another issue.

Exactly. I thought it’d be an easier experience until I stayed at Terra Luna, and then you really feel the isolation. It’s a 10 minute walk from the parks through heavy pedestrian traffic to the bus, and then a 14 minute bus ride. So it ends up being a 30+ minute ordeal at best.

 

[MrPromey]

What if people used Hard Rock as a transfer point instead of the bus hub?

Are you talking the restaurant/theater area or the resort area?

 

[MrPromey]

Exactly. I thought it’d be an easier experience until I stayed at Terra Luna, and then you really feel the isolation. It’s a 10 minute walk from the parks through heavy pedestrian traffic to the bus, and then a 14 minute bus ride. So it ends up being a 30+ minute ordeal at best.

To be fair, you get a sense of the same when staying at any on-campus resort that doesn't have boat access as it comes to visiting those two parks.

I don't like City Walk in the mornings on our way into the parks but I absolutely hate Citywalk with a burning passion at night walking back to my car, even with valet parking and the busses are even further out than that is.

 

[hopemax]

Are you talking the restaurant/theater area or the resort area?

The hotel. It would be an easy walk to go from the Studios to the bus area of the hotel to catch a bus to Epic. Or take a bus from Epic to the Hard Rock Hotel and then head to the Studios. IOA wouldn't be as convenient since it's still a walk from the gate to any bus.

 

[DavidDL]

In regards to TM issues (attitudes, lack of knowledge, etc.) being a "teething" thing for Epic Universe, I'd like to point out that any negative interactions between my first visit to Orlando in '07 and now (that were bad enough for me to remember) have taken place almost exclusively at Universal Parks. I wonder if they have a different onboarding process there than they do out in Hollywood? Because I don't have any recollection of any one particularly bad TM experience out here on the West coast (-and I've been visiting since I was a child).

But I've had awful experiences with rude, unknowledgeable or inefficient TMs in places like Poseidon's Fury, Skull Island: Reign of Kong, Thunder Falls Terrace, Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, etc. and not really one interaction that stands out as being particularly memorable in a good way (as far as front line, interactable TMs are concerned) over my many trips there.

Maybe it's just the weather or something? But if their other parks still haven't ironed out this kink in the nearly 35 years they've been around, then I don't exactly have high hopes in the long run for this particular issue at Epic, either.

 

[MrPromey]

The hotel. It would be an easy walk to go from the Studios to the bus area of the hotel to catch a bus to Epic. Or take a bus from Epic to the Hard Rock Hotel and then head to the Studios. IOA wouldn't be as convenient since it's still a walk from the gate to any bus.

I know where it is but have never stayed there or walked over there. Do you think there would be space/capacity to add a real bus transfer spot intended for this purpose for all resort guests that wouldn't detract from the HR guests in that area or are you thinking more as an individual hack?

Seems like even with it being a bit more of a walk, it would be better than having to trudge through all of Citywalk.

 

[hopemax]

Individual, mid-day hack for savvy WDWMagic readers. Same as how depending on what you're doing it's easier to transfer at a hotel at WDW.

I don't think most people are going to be deterred by the City Walk setup. Mostly, because people won't be interested in hopping preferring to spend full days at each campus. For those that do, it takes quite a bit of time and more than a few steps to park hop at WDW in comparison. In April, we checked out of Stella Nova, drove to the parking garage, took a bus to Helios Grand for breakfast and then bused back before heading to IOA. It was fine.

Definitely recommend staying at Stella Nova for Epic visits. On our unplanned 2nd day, we drove, and that walk felt more unpleasant than the one from Stella Nova, even with crossing a road.

 

[JoeCamel]

I know where it is but have never stayed there or walked over there. Do you think there would be space/capacity to add a real bus transfer spot intended for this purpose for all resort guests that wouldn't detract from the HR guests in that area or are you thinking more as an individual hack?

Seems like even with it being a bit more of a walk, it would be better than having to trudge through all of Citywalk.

No there isn't unless you destroy the ambience of the hotel

 

[Andrew25]

They could theoretically build a bus drop off area at the Valet parking spot by the USF arches and then build a small parking garage for Hard Rock guests.

Thought that would have been the better idea for resort guests with security constantly backing up at the main parking garages.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I think it’ll definitely shift things, but not in the way Potter did. Potter turned the market on its head and completely changed the design philosophy for theme parks. Epic doesn’t really do that, at least not to the same extent.

Park hopping from USF/IOA to the Epic resort area is unfortunately such a chore that I can’t see myself doing it.

I love Potter, and the ground it broke in terms of theme and immersion.

But I also think Potter broke something else. It made these companies think they need to dedicate entire lands to singular IP, which is think is a travesty in a lot of ways. Not to say it isn't suitable now and again, but I do wish more new lands would encompass broader themes. Do these single IP lands eventually become dated, and have to be fully bulldozed one day, versus just replacing old attractions in an existing land?

Tropical Americas is a good example of this, using multiple IP's to execute a theme, which seems rare these days.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

it is telling that most of the universal defenders have gone quiet in this thread

Just cause I dropped my phone in a lake Wednesday. The insurance brought me back today.

And yes, the biggest issue and the reason for the early closing hours is they didn't even come close to their hiring target, and as always happens, some of their new hires aren't working out.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I also think because it’s been so long since a new park has opened in the US, people have poor expectations of what a brand new park is supposed to have and be like. I have been around long enough to remember the underwhelming and often negative reaction and marketing desperation surrounding the opening of both AK and DCA, and I don't get the same sense of that about Epic. For Epic, people want *more* while DCA was, "Why the heck did they build it like this?" and AK was a lot of confusion by the general public. Building out more is a much more solvable problem than people rejecting your entire underlying concept.

Disney purposely underbuilt MGM-Studios, AK, DCA, WDSP and HKDL and is still paying the price for all of them.

Hopefully Epic doesn't wait 5-10 years at a time to add a new ride.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

EPCOT Center visitation was very close to Magic Kingdom visitation. Despite the financial troubles at the studio, the parks remained so profitable that the entire company remained profitable. The story of EPCOT Center struggling out of the gate is just that, a story pushed by Roy E. to help justify his actions against his cousin’s husband whose ideas and successes would also be attributed to others.

People talk for good reason about the pettiness of Jeffrey Katzenberg against Disney and vice versa.

I mean, we have one of the most successful animated franchises in history because of it

But Roy E Disney's beef with Ron Miller is severely underappreciated. Roy really did wonders to reshape his public image and historical connection with his uncle (the same one who didn't think much of him when he was alive) in the decades following Ron's removal from the company.

 

[mkt]

In regards to TM issues (attitudes, lack of knowledge, etc.) being a "teething" thing for Epic Universe, I'd like to point out that any negative interactions between my first visit to Orlando in '07 and now (that were bad enough for me to remember) have taken place almost exclusively at Universal Parks. I wonder if they have a different onboarding process there than they do out in Hollywood? Because I don't have any recollection of any one particularly bad TM experience out here on the West coast (-and I've been visiting since I was a child).

But I've had awful experiences with rude, unknowledgeable or inefficient TMs in places like Poseidon's Fury, Skull Island: Reign of Kong, Thunder Falls Terrace, Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, etc. and not really one interaction that stands out as being particularly memorable in a good way (as far as front line, interactable TMs are concerned) over my many trips there.

Maybe it's just the weather or something? But if their other parks still haven't ironed out this kink in the nearly 35 years they've been around, then I don't exactly have high hopes in the long run for this particular issue at Epic, either.

I know for a fact Universal completely overhauled and expanded their corporate training in preparation for Epic. They also beefed up leadership – promoting some of their best in-house and pulling seasoned folks from Disney, SeaWorld, and other parks across the industry. If you look at some of the names and resumes, it’s like a who’s who of top-tier talent.

Unfortunately, it wasn’t enough. Some longtime Universal Orlando leaders just aren’t adapting to modern expectations, and the staffing pool isn’t deep enough to meet the level of service Epic deserves.

At the end of the day, I genuinely don’t think there are enough willing and qualified people in Central Florida who want to work in theme parks anymore. And unlike Disney, Universal doesn’t have a strong, well-run college program bringing in talent from around the country (and world) to close that gap.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Two points I'd like to add about CMs vs. TMs:

1. The majority if people who move to Orlando specifically to work in theme parks at least start at Disney. Universal's staffing is more significantly filled by locals who aren't particularly enthusiastic about the parks but a job is a job. There are still many TMs that actually care about theme parks and are enthusiastic about them working there, but you are more likely to encounter these types at Disney.

2. Disney has an overall leadership policy that leans too heavily in favor of the guest at the detriment of the CMs. Universal is kind of the opposite, leaning a little too heavily toward favoring the TM at the detriment of the guest experience. The result is that Universal is typically regarded as a better place to work, but a worse guest service experience for visitors.

That said, I still think Universal has among the better theme park guest service in the industry, its just still, on average, several steps below Disney's (even with Disney's also having fallen a bit).

I know for a fact Universal completely overhauled and expanded their corporate training in preparation for Epic. They also beefed up leadership – promoting some of their best in-house and pulling seasoned folks from Disney, SeaWorld, and other parks across the industry. If you look at some of the names and resumes, it’s like a who’s who of top-tier talent.

Unfortunately, everything I know about how the parks are run tells me that the people being boosted upward are very much often not people who care about theme parks, but just people who are good at playing the game. This is true for every job and field I guess, but unfortunately, it's no different with the parks.

Unfortunately, it wasn’t enough. Some longtime Universal Orlando leaders just aren’t adapting to modern expectations, and the staffing pool isn’t deep enough to meet the level of service Epic deserves.

At the end of the day, I genuinely don’t think there are enough willing and qualified people in Central Florida who want to work in theme parks anymore. And unlike Disney, Universal doesn’t have a strong, well-run college program bringing in talent from around the country (and world) to close that gap.

I had wondered about this prior to Epic opening. There were already more guest service and hospitality jobs in the Orlando area than there are people who want to work them. Epic has only made it worse.

 

[jrhwdw]

 

[mkt]

Two points I'd like to add about CMs vs. TMs:

1. The majority if people who move to Orlando specifically to work in theme parks at least start at Disney. Universal's staffing is more significantly filled by locals who aren't particularly enthusiastic about the parks but a job is a job. There are still many TMs that actually care about theme parks and are enthusiastic about them working there, but you are more likely to encounter these types at Disney.

I would tend to agree, but Potter and Nintendo swung the pendulum nearer to parity.

2. Disney has an overall leadership policy that leans too heavily in favor of the guest at the detriment of the CMs. Universal is kind of the opposite, leaning a little too heavily toward favoring the TM at the detriment of the guest experience. The result is that Universal is typically regarded as a better place to work, but a worse guest service experience for visitors.

Culturally, this is spot on, but most of their policies and procedures are nearly identical.

Unfortunately, everything I know about how the parks are run tells me that the people being boosted upward are very much often not people who care about theme parks, but just people who are good at playing the game. This is true for every job and field I guess, but unfortunately, it's no different with the parks.

That’s just corporate America in a nutshell.