Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[Tom Morrow]

Are these a bunch of people that don’t do real adulting?

Uhh. Idk? Online theme park and roller coaster enthusiast communities that don't have Disney parks as their main focus like this one have been rife for a while with discussions about how Disney is "failing" and "no longer in first place". Again, the problem with social media bubbles - people end up in echo chambers of what they already believe, having it reinforced back to them. So while a lot of theme park fans may not agree with many of Disney's recent decisions (myself included), they equate all that negative feedback with their parks falling out of first place. But they are not.

I think there is a disconnect where fans try and equate a full immersive environment to equal a more enjoyable visit or more excitement.
I have been to SWGE and it is very immersive, however, it falls short in so many ways that have little or nothing to do with immersion. If they would throw out the specific time and location, and included a wider variety of Star Wars as a full property, IMHO it would be way for enjoyable, but less immersive.
Just a thought as the immersive element seems to be a significant discussion point. Some of that Universal did to itself thru marketing, but I really believe some of it is the disconnect between immersion and enjoyment/entertainment.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - I think that for most people, whether they can actually articulate it as an issue or subconsciously, would feel that being taken out of a highly themed environment by seeing backstage or out of the park is at least somewhat of a vibe killer. It's one thing to see out of SeaWorld - who cares? It's another to see the Kirkman Road extension from the Monsters outdoor queue.

I, personally, genuinely do take enjoyment in feeling fully immersed, even if I know it's fake, and I also enjoy seeing all the ways that the parks can accomplish it.

But I also acknowledge that full immersion alone is not enough for a theme park land to be fun. I recently concluded that SWGE is more immersive, detailed, and "real" feeling than the lands at Epic. But it also is ultimately less fun because it feels dead and lifeless, whereas the lands at Epic are full of life and kinetic movement.

I also think because its been so long since a new park has opened in the US, people have poor expectations of what a brand new park is supposed to have and be like. I have been around long enough to remember the underwhelming and often negative reaction and marketing desperation surrounding the opening of both AK and DCA, and I don't get the same sense of that about Epic. For Epic, people want *more* while DCA was, "Why the heck did they built it like this?" and AK was a lot of confusion by the general public. Building out more is a much more solvable problem than people rejecting your entire underlying concept.

Yeah, I guess I have to remember my first visit to AK. I remember thinking that it didn't feel like Disney and felt empty and incomplete, especially with having only two rides - Dinosaur (then Countdown to Extinction) and Kilimanjaro Safaris. Today it is my favorite of the WDW parks.

 

[CosmicDuck]

To add some perspective, my wife and I make an annual WDW trip every year. We spend about 4-5 days in the parks. We like Universal, but not enough to go back unless something major opens. We have only made 3 visits in the last 8 years.

We just got back from our most recent trip where we spent three days at Epic Universe. We left incredibly impressed, and cannot imagine a world for the foreseeable future we don't add one or two Epic days onto every trip. And our trips won't/can't get longer, so we'll sacrifice a Hollywood Studios day and probably a Magic Kingdom one to do it.

We'll visit those parks when something major opens. And that's how things slowly begin to shift.

 

[MrPromey]

Yeah, I guess I have to remember my first visit to AK. I remember thinking that it didn't feel like Disney and felt empty and incomplete, especially with having only two rides - Dinosaur (then Countdown to Extinction) and Kilimanjaro Safaris. Today it is my favorite of the WDW parks.

Epcot being only Disney's third park and the first non-castle had a huge uphill battle on opening, too.

The focus and intent was entirely different from MK and DL and there were a ton of people disappointed and flat out bored by it.

It was a park built with big huge ideas and possibly even greater ideals.

People, however, were looking for the next Pirates and Space Mountain and absolutely nothing there fit that bill.*

The closest thing to the MK was the Imagination pavilion and even that one was trying to teach you something. (the horror!)


*Ultimately, when you look at how the park has changed and what's been replaced, the original concept arguably never fully won the public over. Personally, I much prefer my childhood memories of the original park to a lot of what is in the front half today but if the general public had agreed, I doubt we'd have gotten Test Track, Mission Space and a Marvel property set up there and Frozen would have found a home at MK instead of being shoehornned into a country it doesn't belong in just to boost the popularity of World Showcase.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Epcot being only Disney's third park and the first non-castle had a huge uphill battle on opening, too.

The focus and intent was entirely different from MK and DL and there were a ton of people disappointed and flat out bored by it.

It was a park built with big huge ideas and possibly even greater ideals.

People, however, were looking for the next Pirates and Space Mountain and absolutely nothing there fit that bill.*

The closest thing to the MK was the Imagination pavilion and even that one was trying to teach you something. (the horror!)


*Ultimately, when you look at how the park has changed and what's been replaced, the original concept arguably never fully won the public over. Personally, I much prefer my childhood memories of the original park to a lot of what is in the front half today but if the general public had agreed, I doubt we'd have gotten Test Track, Mission Space and a Marvel property set up there and Frozen would have found a home at MK instead of being shoehornned into a country it doesn't belong in just to boost the popularity of World Showcase.

EPCOT Center visitation was very close to Magic Kingdom visitation. Despite the financial troubles at the studio, the parks remained so profitable that the entire company remained profitable. The story of EPCOT Center struggling out of the gate is just that, a story pushed by Roy E. to help justify his actions against his cousin’s husband whose ideas and successes would also be attributed to others.

 

[The Mom]

Any posters who continue bickering will be banned from this thread.

Just a reminder, posters had a warning.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Fair enough, and this is why I was honestly interested in the first post that mentioned this feeling as I was wondering whether it was just me who has sensed a change in tone. Not a negative reaction, just more a muted reaction.

For example, I occasionally look through the Universal Orlando reddit group and my impression is that it skews positive overall, but probably more mixed than this forum in terms of trip reports.

I've looked at other places too and they seem overwhelmingly positive for Epic. This is the only site that is not positive IMO.

 

[Chi84]

I've looked at other places too and they seem overwhelmingly positive for Epic. This is the only site that is not positive IMO.

Imagine that!

 

[MrPromey]

EPCOT Center visitation was very close to Magic Kingdom visitation. Despite the financial troubles at the studio, the parks remained so profitable that the entire company remained profitable. The story of EPCOT Center struggling out of the gate is just that, a story pushed by Roy E. to help justify his actions against his cousin’s husband whose ideas and successes would also be attributed to others.

Epcot was included in the four seasons pass (I believe it was called) we had which is why my family went in the early years.

Having extended family who both went and worked that included cast members, I can say first-hand I experienced adults around me making these claims and when we went, it was almost never a full day visit to just Epcot. It's anecdotal, of course but unless Roy E. was pushing propaganda around Florida back in the early 80's to turn the hearts and minds of locals who visited, it wasn't JUST a story that people didn't immediately take to the concept upon initial visits.

Wait times were almost always better than things at the MK too which meant splitting time over there as passholders was always a connvenient way to break up the day and I was all for the long monorail ride and ready to be forever abandoned in Imageworks (which sadly, never happened).

There of course were no Youtube influenncers either to explain it, offer "tips" for it or bash it though so many people really wouldn't have had an opinion either way without visiting and again, Disney very much bundled it from the start.

Yeah, they had an opening special on TV but at a time when many households didn't even own VCRs, it's not like that kind of thing strongly informed the general public, either.

It was always my favorite park and I was young enough that long attractions teaching me about the history of communication and transportation and humantiny didn't seem odd since those were some of my earliest memories of actually going to WDW to begin with. Then again, you don't usually see a whole lot of adults without kids when visting Science and Industry or hands-on style museaums, either so it kind of makes sense as a kid, that would have been more impressive and interesting.

I'll admit to being bored as a kid with what we spent most of our time doing in World Showcase, though and I have to think that was a fairly universal (no pun intended) problem they recognized since they eventually started doing the Kidcot stuff.

I'm not saying Epcot "struggled" financially or in attendance but it opened as a bundled product attached to the MK with a form of transportation many would have considered an attraction in its own right linking the two so I think it's kind of difficult to view it in that sense because it never actually had to succeed solely on its own merits.

Disney openned Epcot and got many people through the turnstyles who were already there for MK. In contrast, Universal's forced many people to buy tickets for IOA and Studios to even be able to visit Epic so I'm not sure what point is to be made.

I will say I don't recall them (Disney with EPCOT Center) having any notable opening struggles with opperations or attraction uptimes. I would probably have been too young to be fully aware but I don't ever remember visiting and not being able to see the dinosaurs or Dreamfinder and Figment due to attraction downtime or b-modes.

I'm of course speaking here in the context of people commennting on how Epic is doing based on their observations arounnd internnet hype. I wonder what the discussions would have been about EPCOT back then during it's grand openning month if forums and reddit and youtube and tiktok would have been around.

I don't think anyone here is saying they're (Universal with Epic) financially struggling or having trouble selling tickets based on what we're seeing/hearing about this first month of official operation, either.

 

[networkpro]

The ticket restrictions don't lend themselves to continuing discussion. Like pointed out, a lot of us already visited, and probably aren't in a position to go back for a little bit. We did 2 preview days, and my next visit will be 2 days in September. Which will also be my DH's first visit. I'll have stuff to say then. My Dad is a local and would love to go back, and would have gone back already if it was included in his AP to try more food. But he doesn't want to pay $140 to go by himself.

I still think Epic is a game changer in the same way I thought Harry Potter was a game changer. There was a lot of resistance among the Disney faithful that HP could possibly be that good, and change people's idea of the value of visiting Universal.

I believe that Epic is more of a Universal "critical mass" game changer, but only after its integrated into the overall ticket availability and pricing strategy for all of the Comcast owned Orlando parks. The accommodations are better priced, (but that parking fee if you drive!) more centralized and closer to the parks than the competition, and Epics food , while pricey, overall right now is quite good and varied to the point that if available I'd park hop from Islands or Studios just to dine like we do to Eatcot.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I wonder what the discussions would have been about EPCOT back then during it's grand openning month if forums and reddit and youtube and tiktok would have been around.

I feel like the opening version of Epcot would have been even better received if it had opened with prior years of information and tracking of the project leading up to its opening. If more people had been primed to expect something completely different than Magic Kingdom, more people would not have been disappointed by it when they finally visited.

I didn't see Epcot until 1994, which was basically the final year of "original Epcot" but also it had been open long enough that people knew what to expect. I know as a kid in 1994 I didn't care about World Showcase at all, but I loved Future World.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I still think Epic is a game changer in the same way I thought Harry Potter was a game changer. There was a lot of resistance among the Disney faithful that HP could possibly be that good, and change people's idea of the value of visiting Universal. But it wasn't ever going to be instantaneous. The change will be in how people think and plan their visits to central Florida. Also, the same as how DCL slowly, but surely started capturing WDW market. Universal is now in a position to capture a week long vacation (including a family's travel days). Especially, as the market regenerates itself with new children aging into Universal.

I think it’ll definitely shift things, but not in the way Potter did. Potter turned the market on its head and completely changed the design philosophy for theme parks. Epic doesn’t really do that, at least not to the same extent.

I believe that Epic is more of a Universal "critical mass" game changer, but only after its integrated into the overall ticket availability and pricing strategy for all of the Comcast owned Orlando parks. The accommodations are better priced, (but that parking fee if you drive!) more centralized and closer to the parks than the competition, and Epics food , while pricey, overall right now is quite good and varied to the point that if available I'd park hop from Islands or Studios just to dine like we do to Eatcot.

Park hopping from USF/IOA to the Epic resort area is unfortunately such a chore that I can’t see myself doing it.

 

[MrPromey]

I feel like the opening version of Epcot would have been even better received if it had opened with prior years of information and tracking of the project leading up to its opening. If more people had been primed to expect something completely different than Magic Kingdom, more people would not have been disappointed by it when they finally visited.

I didn't see Epcot until 1994, which was basically the final year of "original Epcot" but also it had been open long enough that people knew what to expect. I know as a kid in 1994 I didn't care about World Showcase at all, but I loved Future World.

Excellent point.

 

[MrPromey]

Park hopping from USF/IOA to the Epic resort area is unfortunately such a chore that I can’t see myself doing it.

It's a 14 minute bus ride. I think how smooth that ends up being comes down to how many buses they're willing to have going back-and-forth all day to reduce/eliminate the wait times.

... Although Citywalk being between the two parks and the busses at the main campus is another issue.

 

[hopemax]

What if people used Hard Rock as a transfer point instead of the bus hub?

 

[DarkMetroid567]

It's a 14 minute bus ride. I think how smooth that ends up being comes down to how many buses they're willing to have going back-and-forth all day to reduce/eliminate the wait times.

... Although Citywalk being between the two parks and the busses at the main campus is another issue.

Exactly. I thought it’d be an easier experience until I stayed at Terra Luna, and then you really feel the isolation. It’s a 10 minute walk from the parks through heavy pedestrian traffic to the bus, and then a 14 minute bus ride. So it ends up being a 30+ minute ordeal at best.

 

[MrPromey]

What if people used Hard Rock as a transfer point instead of the bus hub?

Are you talking the restaurant/theater area or the resort area?

 

[MrPromey]

Exactly. I thought it’d be an easier experience until I stayed at Terra Luna, and then you really feel the isolation. It’s a 10 minute walk from the parks through heavy pedestrian traffic to the bus, and then a 14 minute bus ride. So it ends up being a 30+ minute ordeal at best.

To be fair, you get a sense of the same when staying at any on-campus resort that doesn't have boat access as it comes to visiting those two parks.

I don't like City Walk in the mornings on our way into the parks but I absolutely hate Citywalk with a burning passion at night walking back to my car, even with valet parking and the busses are even further out than that is.

 

[hopemax]

Are you talking the restaurant/theater area or the resort area?

The hotel. It would be an easy walk to go from the Studios to the bus area of the hotel to catch a bus to Epic. Or take a bus from Epic to the Hard Rock Hotel and then head to the Studios. IOA wouldn't be as convenient since it's still a walk from the gate to any bus.

 

[DavidDL]

In regards to TM issues (attitudes, lack of knowledge, etc.) being a "teething" thing for Epic Universe, I'd like to point out that any negative interactions between my first visit to Orlando in '07 and now (that were bad enough for me to remember) have taken place almost exclusively at Universal Parks. I wonder if they have a different onboarding process there than they do out in Hollywood? Because I don't have any recollection of any one particularly bad TM experience out here on the West coast (-and I've been visiting since I was a child).

But I've had awful experiences with rude, unknowledgeable or inefficient TMs in places like Poseidon's Fury, Skull Island: Reign of Kong, Thunder Falls Terrace, Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, etc. and not really one interaction that stands out as being particularly memorable in a good way (as far as front line, interactable TMs are concerned) over my many trips there.

Maybe it's just the weather or something? But if their other parks still haven't ironed out this kink in the nearly 35 years they've been around, then I don't exactly have high hopes in the long run for this particular issue at Epic, either.

 

[MrPromey]

The hotel. It would be an easy walk to go from the Studios to the bus area of the hotel to catch a bus to Epic. Or take a bus from Epic to the Hard Rock Hotel and then head to the Studios. IOA wouldn't be as convenient since it's still a walk from the gate to any bus.

I know where it is but have never stayed there or walked over there. Do you think there would be space/capacity to add a real bus transfer spot intended for this purpose for all resort guests that wouldn't detract from the HR guests in that area or are you thinking more as an individual hack?

Seems like even with it being a bit more of a walk, it would be better than having to trudge through all of Citywalk.