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Unpopular Disney world opinions

Moth

Moth

Well-Known Member
Magic Kingdom is booty. RoA being torn out doesn't make it's case better and Villains just adds onto the spaghetti. It's only saving grace is having a pretty nice Adventureland and- nevermind look at those ugly carpets.

Disney has failed to capitalize on the majority of non-princess post-2000s IP in their parks, specifically Lilo and Stitch, and I think Berk in EU is going to be a wake up call in this department on how Disney can figure out ways to milk an alien. The fandom wants to grovel and groan when they see Stitch but outside of a bad re-theme, he's had nothing. The lack of Wreck it Ralph, WALL-E, Incredibles, Tangled, Big Hero 6, and other IPs like Phineas and Ferb have been obvious.

It's time for WDW Jungle Cruise to meet the big Disney's America in the sky.

Toy Story Land is perfectly fine, and if Galaxy's Edge wasn't sold as the second coming of Jesus by Disney it would be seen as a "fine" land too.
 
Sir_Cliff

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I'm definitely on board with rides not necessarily needing a linear narrative -- one of the complaints people have made here about Na'vi River Journey is that it doesn't tell a story, and I've never really understood that particular complaint. I don't think it needs a story (and there are other classic Disney attractions that don't really have a narrative, like Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise); you're just experiencing being on a river in a jungle on an alien planet (and, at least IMO, it absolutely nails that).

I've never really understood the complaint about book report rides either, though. If you're building a ride based off a specific movie, isn't that often what people want? People generally want to see the scenes and characters from the film they enjoyed. I think that's part of the reason FEA felt off to me (although certainly not my biggest issue); it's basically a collection of scenes similar to scenes from the film (Elsa singing Let It Go in the ice palace, etc.). If they ever built an Aladdin ride, e.g., I think people would want to see the Cave of Wonders, they'd want to see an A Whole New World flying carpet scene, they'd want to see a Friend Like Me scene, etc., which doesn't have to be done as a book report, but if you have all those scenes it seems like it's almost inherently one.
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Yeah, I understand that view and am not sure where I sit on book report rides in principle. In practice, though, I'm trying to think of one that I would rate very highly. Absent that, I tend to side with those who argue theme park rides aren't a good medium for telling a narrative story. Splash Mountain is perhaps the main exception, perhaps because it tells a short and simple story equivalent to a short rather than a feature film over a relatively long ride.

I would imagine trying to fit in the major plot points of a film into a relatively short ride probably serves as a bit of a straightjacket which necessitates shoehorning things in that don't really fit or flow naturally and making it harder to linger on key moments. With the Aladdin example, I think what you mention would actually does work best as kind of a book report ride in that it recreates memorable moments from the film but isn't one because it isn't bound to telling a narrative story. The conceit could be as simple as Aladdin and Jasmine taking a spin on the carpet, or that you're doing it and bumping into them along the way. That way, they can just leave out stuff like introducing Jafar and having him defeated at the end, for example, and concentrate on giving guests the feeling of riding on a magic carpet through the world of Aladdin with all the music they want to hear.

That's what I kind of respect about FEA: they don't worry about explaining why Elsa is in her ice castle singing Let it Go and I don't think it really matters; who knows, maybe she just likes to go up there sometimes in the summer and sing to herself! As far as Tiana is concerned, I think that ride is another victim of over-thinking everything.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Sir_Cliff said:
Yeah, I understand that view and am not sure where I sit on book report rides in principle. In practice, though, I'm trying to think of one that I would rate very highly. Absent that, I tend to side with those who argue theme park rides aren't a good medium for telling a narrative story. Splash Mountain is perhaps the main exception, perhaps because it tells a short and simple story equivalent to a short rather than a feature film over a relatively long ride.

I would imagine trying to fit in the major plot points of a film into a relatively short ride probably serves as a bit of a straightjacket which necessitates shoehorning things in that don't really fit or flow naturally and making it harder to linger on key moments. With the Aladdin example, I think what you mention would actually does work best as kind of a book report ride in that it recreates memorable moments from the film but isn't one because it isn't bound to telling a narrative story. The conceit could be as simple as Aladdin and Jasmine taking a spin on the carpet, or that you're doing it and bumping into them along the way. That way, they can just leave out stuff like introducing Jafar and having him defeated at the end, for example, and concentrate on giving guests the feeling of riding on a magic carpet through the world of Aladdin with all the music they want to hear.

That's what I kind of respect about FEA: they don't worry about explaining why Elsa is in her ice castle singing Let it Go and I don't think it really matters; who knows, maybe she just likes to go up there sometimes in the summer and sing to herself! As far as Tiana is concerned, I think that ride is another victim of over-thinking everything.
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I think people would want to see Jafar on an attraction like that, though -- isn't that a big part of the reason people are excited for a Villains land?

I don't think a Villains land is a good idea, because I don't think most of the Disney villains really work outside of the context of their own stories. I think they should be included in attractions centered around that IP.

Frozen didn't really have a capital V villain the way many other Disney films do, so I don't think it's a major issue there. If Disney is determined to use their movies as the basis for all attractions, though, the ones that have major villains should be incorporated into those attractions. That's one of the major complaints about Tiana, too.

I agree that theme park rides aren't generally the best medium to tell a linear narrative (with maybe a few exceptions), but I don't think a ride necessarily has to retell the entire movie (so maybe what I'm suggesting isn't what other people call a book report ride? I'm not really sure). I do think people generally want to see the high points of the film, though, including the villain.
 
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D

DisneyFanatic12

Well-Known Member
Moth said:
Disney has failed to capitalize on the majority of non-princess post-2000s IP in their parks, specifically Lilo and Stitch, and I think Berk in EU is going to be a wake up call in this department on how Disney can figure out ways to milk an alien. The fandom wants to grovel and groan when they see Stitch but outside of a bad re-theme, he's had nothing. The lack of Wreck it Ralph, WALL-E, Incredibles, Tangled, Big Hero 6, and other IPs like Phineas and Ferb have been obvious.
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I agree, it’s interesting how they have failed to capitalize on a lot of different IP in the parks.
 
Coaster Lover

Coaster Lover

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Dolewhips are highly overrated... there are dozens of better options if you are looking for a refreshing treat.

Pirates at Magic Kingdom is by no means sacred and I would not shed a tear if they ever announced it would be removed. It was a rushed, trimmed down clone of a substantially better ride and an arguably better alternative ride would have been built if "fans" didn't interfere.

Infact I will go so far as to say that I don't think there is a single ride at Magic Kingdom that I would consider "untouchable". Keep the originals at Disneyland, the clones at Magic Kingdom are not sacred to me.

CRT and BOG are 100% skipable.

All of the rides that they replaced at EPCOT needed to be replaced... if they were still there today (as they were when they opened) we'd all be complaining about how dated the rides are.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Coaster Lover said:
All of the rides that they replaced at EPCOT needed to be replaced... if they were still there today (as they were when they opened) we'd all be complaining about how dated the rides are.
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Imagination would still be one of the best rides at WDW right now if it was functioning in its original incarnation. That's not to say it wouldn't have benefitted from some updates, but it really wouldn't be significantly outdated.

World of Motion would have needed some changes towards the end (like Spaceship Earth) but the majority of that ride would also still be good to great right now.

Horizons is the one that would have needed a significant overhaul; its vision of the future was very 1980s.
 
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Brer Panther

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh is a fun ride, if it had been built on the 2000 Leagues land or something instead of replacing Mr. Toad it wouldn't get nearly as much hatred as it does.
UNCgolf said:
I've never really understood the complaint about book report rides either, though. If you're building a ride based off a specific movie, isn't that often what people want? People generally want to see the scenes and characters from the film they enjoyed. I think that's part of the reason FEA felt off to me (although certainly not my biggest issue); it's basically a collection of scenes similar to scenes from the film (Elsa singing Let It Go in the ice palace, etc.). If they ever built an Aladdin ride, e.g., I think people would want to see the Cave of Wonders, they'd want to see an A Whole New World flying carpet scene, they'd want to see a Friend Like Me scene, etc., which doesn't have to be done as a book report, but if you have all those scenes it seems like it's almost inherently one.
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I don't think book report rides are inherently bad, it's the execution that matters. Pooh works as a book report because it actually allows riders to participate in the story (bouncing in the forest with Tigger, entering Pooh's Heffalumps and Woozles dream sequence) and has the unique "hook" of traveling through a giant storybook.

By contrast, the Little Mermaid ride and Tokyo's Beauty and the Beast ride have riders just drift by scenes without interacting with them (the latter doesn't even have any of the characters acknowledge us). Going off the Aladdin ride idea, what sounds like it'd be more fun: an elaborate scene of traveling through the Cave of Wonders and flying alongside Aladdin and Abu as they try to escape, followed by a big "Friend Like Me" sequence with Genie that we travel through*... or just drifting around a scene of Aladdin grabbing the lamp, and then just drifting around a scene of Aladdin and Abu meeting the Genie, and then just drifting around a scene of Genie turning Aladdin into a prince? Or, to use another movie... if they did a dark ride based on The Jungle Book, would you rather have a scene where we just circle around a scene of Kaa hypnotizing Mowgli and then head to the next scene... or a scene where Kaa emerges from the treetops in front of us and attempts to hypnotize the riders?

And then you have Frozen Ever After, the Ratatouille ride, and The Seas With Nemo and Friends, which take place after the movie but still try to rehash it. This just makes things confusing - why is Elsa in her ice palace and singing "Let It Go" without context? Why do the characters sing "In Summer" other than "because it's a song from the movie"?
UNCgolf said:
I don't think a Villains land is a good idea, because I don't think most of the Disney villains really work outside of the context of their own stories. I think they should be included in attractions centered around that IP.

Frozen didn't really have a capital V villain the way many other Disney films do, so I don't think it's a major issue there. If Disney is determined to use their movies as the basis for all attractions, though, the ones that have major villains should be incorporated into those attractions. That's one of the major complaints about Tiana, too.
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I agree with that, too. I'd much rather have an Aladdin dark ride with Jafar in it than a Jafar ride.

* There's actually a pitch for an Aladdin dark ride on this very site where the "Friend Like Me" scene is represented by the riders actually entering Genie's lamp. That would be a neat idea, even if it didn't happen in the movie.
 
S

Streetway Again

Well-Known Member
Ok, alotta stuff here, so bear with me.
Moth said:
It's time for WDW Jungle Cruise to meet the big Disney's America in the sky.
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WOW. bold as F***, but i respect jt. used to feel the same about jungle cruise, but it grew on me. But I would get over that. Hell, If you wanna make magic kingdom a whole new thing separate from the Disneyland mold? No half measures. Though i think even GP wouldn’t like jungle cruise being gone.

You wanna know what I think SHOULD be torn out? MK POTC. that think is a disgrace and an embarrassment compared to every other pirates on the planet, for one of the flagship brands at the parks. I know it’s getting the bar so we are stuck with it, but if ANY ride in America should get the Tokyo space treatment, it should be it.


Moth said:
Disney has failed to capitalize on the majority of non-princess post-2000s IP in their parks, specifically Lilo and Stitch, and I think Berk in EU is going to be a wake up call in this department on how Disney can figure out ways to milk an alien. The fandom wants to grovel and groan when they see Stitch but outside of a bad re-theme, he's had nothing. The lack of Wreck it Ralph, WALL-E, Incredibles, Tangled, Big Hero 6, and other IPs like Phineas and Ferb have been obvious
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No notes, agreed. And there are a ton of older attractions that have worn out their welcome that are targets for these. Hell, as much as I like the muppets, maybe RNRC Wouldve been better at PnF coolest coaster ever.

Now I have a take that may or may not be hot, but damn I wanna say it after recent fandom events.

We need to stop pretending any new executive revolt, or ceo, or anything will come to save what we think the Disney Parks should be.

We all need to accept that the Disney parks of old are in some way gone, and work to start to accept that fact and move on.

What we of purists think the parks should be is dead. It’s gone. IP’s are the blood of theme parks now. And they will only Increase at Disney.

Yeah, it sucks to admit as a big fan, but it’s the hard truth, at least to me. We bemoan things like cars, and IPcot, and the focus on brands and stuff and all of that, but none of that is without reason. Average people want it. It’s been the case for a long time, since potter. If people didn’t want it, we wouldnt still be getting it. It’s what sells. People will enjoy cars in Frontierland more than the ROA in the long term. I know it sucks for us fans, losing old favorites and things that have been around forever, and things like the rivers of America and all that, but I’ve come to accept the hard truth is that we are the only ones who care anymore. us continually fighting hard against every major change to the parks, while I admire keeping the full integrity intact, at this point doesn’t feel really feasible anymore. Changes will happen and will never stop. We all, as purists, are fighting a battle against the march of time that we just can’t win. And if I’m being completely honest, it’s been a lost cause for a while now.

There’s bot to say that there is no place for park original content, because the continued popularity of figment and the haunted mansion says otherwise. There’s also room for parks to keep their integrity intact, but in a new way. This is what’s happening in tropical americas with the animal theming at the core and villiage thing, and the prospect of fixing Epcot, which should be done. There can and should be compromises to not fully erase or forget about what once was, and keep that soul intact in some way. There should be a marriage of past and present. But it won’t be the same.

At some point, we all need to face the music, and accept that on the main level, the new things happening, are what is going to continue to happen. And we can’t stop it. Not to say there won’t be any good things at the Disney parks, because the past few years, there HAS been. But you’re just going to have to keep a very open mind.

Call me pessimistic or a shill, but I’m tired of fighting the winds of change.


Edit: forgot to add but it is perfectly ok to mourn what’s lost. I’ve done it too. You’re not wrong for it and your sadness and feelings are valid.
 
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UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Moth said:
It's time for WDW Jungle Cruise to meet the big Disney's America in the sky.
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