Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[GoofGoof]

I hate the idea of a pay for every ride/book of tickets system with a passion.
It would be an all day internal conflict of, is it worth it, is it worth it.
I'm an accountant and this sounds like a good way to ruin a vacation that I dearly enjoy.
Don't get me wrong - I don't like ILL either, but that's one decision to make and move on.
Am I an adult that rides Small World almost every trip because it's nostalgic and usually has a short line - yes.
Now, charge me $1, $3 - whatever.... gross. That would probably be the #1 thing that would turn me off from Disney/Theme Parks.

I see your point and would probably agree I’d be turned off, but you could always just not buy in. For the Small World example you could still ride for free but you just have to wait 15 mins in standby. For someone who really doesn‘t want to wait they pay the $3 and skip the wait.

I agree with others that this system would never happen, but it would be an interesting psychology experiment.

 

[Jrb1979]

I see your point and would probably agree I’d be turned off, but you could always just not buy in. For the Small World example you could still ride for free but you just have to wait 15 mins in standby. For someone who really doesn‘t want to wait they pay the $3 and skip the wait.

I agree with others that this system would never happen, but it would be an interesting psychology experiment.

Never say never. Other parks are starting to do that. Cedar Fair parks have a pass similar to Universal where it's anywhere from $100 to $185 for the day. Now they have added single use passes for top attractions that run anywhere from $5 to $30.

I can see Disney doing at some point. They were late to the game I'm charging guests for shorter waits. I can see them adopting this eventually.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This is probably not worth discussing because it'll never happen, but I'll leave it at this (DM me if you want to continue the convo because I find it interesting).

If there are 100 slots to sell per hour. The first 10 slots cost $5 the next 30 cost $10 then next 30 cost $15 then the next 30 cost $20. Anything over 100 is now $40. As demand drops and time passes, it makes its way back down to 10 based on how many people are in the LL.

You can write a simple dynamic script that sets the price.

Or they could just eliminate the skip the line altogether and let wait times be the natural deterrent, there’s no extra money in that for Disney though. Nearly everyone will get in a 15 minute line, fewer will get in a 30, even fewer an hour, very few at 2 hours. The lines used to self regulate, FP and the subsequent schemes distorted that.

No matter what system they come up with the reality is most rides average about 1500-2000 people per hour, roughly 20k-30k rides a day, in a park that regularly has 50k people in it, no matter what they do only 50% of guests can ride any given attraction, the other 50% have to skip it because of capacity.

Whether it’s a time deterrent, a lack of interest, or a financial deterrent the reality is 50% have to “choose” to skip every ride because the rides simply can’t accommodate the number of people in the parks.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Yeah, there’s no way that everyone purchasing G+ or LLMP could all get a pass for every eligible attraction. The capacity just isn’t there. I would spitball and say the average number of attractions that can be booked is probably around 4 per purchaser, maybe 5.

In order the have it function as a “everyone gets one pass for every eligible ride” system they would have to sell a ton fewer G+ or LLMP. And if they did that, we’d be looking at a price many times greater (like $75-100 per person per day) to make up for the revenue. And that would have bad PR I would think both in being unaffordable for “regular” families and also being unfavorable compared to Uni’s system that is more similar but allows unlimited rides.

Yup, this is a very different system than express pass. It is to let you skip a couple of lines not all them and why priced as such

If Disney ever did a true express pass it would have to be so pricey - I mean, at Universal it can be $200/person/day or more so for MK it would have to be at least that much, probably more - but then like 10% or less of guess buy it

 

[Jrb1979]

Yup, this is a very different system than express pass. It is to let you skip a couple of lines not all them and why priced as such

If Disney ever did a true express pass it would have to be so pricey - I mean, at Universal it can be $200/person/day or more so for MK it would have to be at least that much, probably more - but then like 10% or less of guess buy it

To be fair back when they first introduced Genie+ a few insiders did say the reason Genie+ didn't work as planned was it was optimal with 10% of guests using it.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

To be fair back when they first introduced Genie+ a few insiders did say the reason Genie+ didn't work as planned was it was optimal with 10% of guests using it.

I heard 20%, but yes, any of these systems would work better with fewer people but more greets felt they *had* to get it

But if they charged $200/person I think a lot less would actually buy it

 

[JD80]

At 200+ you may as well buy a VIP tour if your party is big enough.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

At 200+ you may as well buy a VIP tour if your party is big enough.

If you have like 10 people, maybe, but a VIP tour is like $3,000-$6,000 + tip, so still a gap

 

[Jrb1979]

I heard 20%, but yes, any of these systems would work better with fewer people but more greets felt they *had* to get it

But if they charged $200/person I think a lot less would actually buy it

From the sounds of it, Disney knew that but was unwilling to either cap it or charge more cause they liked the revenue it brought in.

I think charging $100 a person would do the trick. Enough guests wouldn't buy it and it would leave availability for those who do. I would easily pay $100 if I knew I could get 10-11 attractions a day.

 

[Saskdw]

Or they could just eliminate the skip the line altogether and let wait times be the natural deterrent, there’s no extra money in that for Disney though. Nearly everyone will get in a 15 minute line, fewer will get in a 30, even fewer an hour, very few at 2 hours. The lines used to self regulate, FP and the subsequent schemes distorted that.

No matter what system they come up with the reality is most rides average about 1500-2000 people per hour, roughly 20k-30k rides a day, in a park that regularly has 50k people in it, no matter what they do only 50% of guests can ride any given attraction, the other 50% have to skip it because of capacity.

Whether it’s a time deterrent, a lack of interest, or a financial deterrent the reality is 50% have to “choose” to skip every ride because the rides simply can’t accommodate the number of people in the parks.

The issue with eliminating all forms of skip the lines is people like me would just never go there again.

We waited in some lines the first time we went because we thought it was a once in a lifetime vacation. But when started going every year our desire to wait in a line longer than 15mins is almost zero.

And like you said there is money to made selling line skipping.

 

[Saskdw]

Yup, this is a very different system than express pass. It is to let you skip a couple of lines not all them and why priced as such

If Disney ever did a true express pass it would have to be so pricey - I mean, at Universal it can be $200/person/day or more so for MK it would have to be at least that much, probably more - but then like 10% or less of guess buy it

I think the only reason people pay $200 at Universal is because they only go there for 1 day, maybe 2.

No one is taking a 2 week vacation there and paying $200 per person to skip the lines everyday. Disney needs a system that is reasonably priced for 1-2 week vacations.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I think the reason they’re hesitant to do the pricing the majority out strategy to make whatever version of paid FP work more efficiently is it really exposes how lacking some of the parks are attraction wise when you’re talking numbers like $100-200 per person on top of a ticket and it nets you maybe 2-3 rides that have significant waits unless it’s an extremely busy time.

I also think the hypothetical numbers that get thrown around when a true express style system is discussed are almost always too low. Unless you’re quoting VIP guide prices, you’re valuing unlimited and unscheduled entries lower than Disney does.

 

[Purduevian]

And that would have bad PR I would think both in being unaffordable for “regular” families and also being unfavorable compared to Uni’s system that is more similar but allows unlimited rides.

Just a note, Universal sells 2 versions of express. 1 is the unlimited the other is 1 ride per attraction. Disneyland Paris I think does similar pricing and functionality.

As a side note:
1:30PM check

Park	LLMP sold out	LLMP past 7:30pm (6 hours out)
MK	Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, Pooh, Tiana	Buzz (8:25), Space (9:30)
EPCOT	Frozen, Mission Space, Remy	None
DHS	RNRC, SDD, TSMM, ToT	MMRR (7:50)
AK	FotLK, Kali, Navi

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I think the reason they’re hesitant to do the pricing the majority out strategy to make whatever version of paid FP work more efficiently is it really exposes how lacking some of the parks are attraction wise when you’re talking numbers like $100-200 per person on top of a ticket and it nets you maybe 2-3 rides that have significant waits unless it’s an extremely busy time.

I also think the hypothetical numbers that get thrown around when a true express style system is discussed are almost always too low. Unless you’re quoting VIP guide prices, you’re valuing unlimited and unscheduled entries lower than Disney does.

With the exception of MK I totally agree, not many people could justify another $200, on top of the $150 ticket price, for the half dozen rides where you’d benefit from a line skip system at HS, AK, or EP.

We struggle to justify buying the relatively cheap LL, it’s also one of the biggest problems with charging for FP, to get your moneys worth you feel like you need to go on more rides, it’s actually increasing demand because people are trying to justify spending the money they did.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

With the exception of MK I totally agree, not many people could justify another $200, on top of the $150 ticket price, for the half dozen rides where you’d benefit from a line skip system at HS, AK, or EP.

We struggle to justify buying the relatively cheap LL, it’s also one of the biggest problems with charging for FP, to get your moneys worth you feel like you need to go on more rides, it’s actually increasing demand because people are trying to justify spending the money they did.

MK was my exception too. Although I personally still could not shell out that kind of money for it, it at least has enough quantity to make it make a little more sense.

I am totally with you though, we also struggle with justifying the value of the current systems. On that note, the a la carte systems with micro transactions all day long that were brought up would probably be the nail in the coffin as far as my family visiting goes. That would drive me nuts. The current system causes enough decision fatigue for me. I also think the online contingent of Disney planners would in general hate a system like that far more than anything we’ve had thus far. It would completely eliminate any ability to get more out of a system with knowledge and strategy. Clearly as shown in conversation that have gone on in here, that’s something a lot of us really value.

 

[JIMMYEDDIE]

At 200+ you may as well buy a VIP tour if your party is big enough.

VIP tour is still 3x that amt pp

 

[JD80]

Yall taking my post way too seriously.

 

[JIMMYEDDIE]

Just a note, Universal sells 2 versions of express. 1 is the unlimited the other is 1 ride per attraction. Disneyland Paris I think does similar pricing and functionality.

As a side note:
1:30PM check

Park	LLMP sold out	LLMP past 7:30pm (6 hours out)
MK	Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, Pooh, Tiana	Buzz (8:25), Space (9:30)
EPCOT	Frozen, Mission Space, Remy	None
DHS	RNRC, SDD, TSMM, ToT	MMRR (7:50)
AK	FotLK, Kali, Navi

If this is how its going to go with this system, its worse than i could have even imagined it.....

What a disaster

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I think the reason they’re hesitant to do the pricing the majority out strategy to make whatever version of paid FP work more efficiently is it really exposes how lacking some of the parks are attraction wise when you’re talking numbers like $100-200 per person on top of a ticket and it nets you maybe 2-3 rides that have significant waits unless it’s an extremely busy time.

I also think the hypothetical numbers that get thrown around when a true express style system is discussed are almost always too low. Unless you’re quoting VIP guide prices, you’re valuing unlimited and unscheduled entries lower than Disney does.

Years of free Fastpasses have conditioned us to see them as necessary when visiting the parks.

The new system is priced low enough that most people will use it.

At the end of the day, it's just a ticket price increase above and beyond the norm, disguised as something else.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

If this is how its going to go with this system, its worse than i could have even imagined it.....

What a disaster

We really need the full picture of drops and the ease of refreshes.

FP+ looked often terrible too at a single glance like that but was plentiful if you knew how to game it - like Genie, with actual usage in the parks I found more success with the rolling FP+ than the rolling Genie+ LL.

Edit - I just gave Epcot 10 refreshes to see, chose Epcot because there’s realistically only 2 rides to keep track of there. FEA showed up twice with 2 difference times, Remy showed up 3 times with 2 different times.