Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Ayla]

How? G+ everyone had same availability. Now onsite guests can book ahead of offsite guests.

Keep in mind, this poster had little idea of how FP+ actually worked, so...handful of salt.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

As market research, they should just have an average guest planning a WDW vacation with their family read this thread.

They will immediately book a trip to Hawaii to relax and have fun.

This entire mess continues to show that the people making these decisions do not actually use (and spend their money on) their product.

The parks have been planning and education heavy for at least 10 years now. Even the additional paywalls and convoluted mess of running 3 poorly named systems simultaneously aren’t new.

They don’t care. I want a Disney+ series where the higher ups at Disney have to plan a week at WDW with a fixed budget and absolutely no help, and then have to actually take the trip and meet their planned goals.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Currently (3:45pm on a Fri) MK has 15 rides/m&gs under 15 minutes, 9 more under 30 minutes, 5 more under 45 minutes, Space is 70, and Seven Dwarfs is 75… that seems fairly reasonable.

Hopefully this is a sign they aren’t overselling LL.

 

[Epcot81Fan]

The parks have been planning and education heavy for at least 10 years now. Even the additional paywalls and convoluted mess of running 3 poorly named systems simultaneously aren’t new.

They don’t care. I want a Disney+ series where the higher ups at Disney have to plan a week at WDW with a fixed budget and absolutely no help, and then have to actually take the trip and meet their planned goals.

Bolded for emphasis.

And the idea that you can keep putting people through this ridiculous labyrinth to just plan a day at a theme park and that will not have any negative perceptions on the brand, experience, and value shows you that they truly have no idea what they are doing.

Now that the Instagram FOMO wave of "Look at me in front of the castle with ears on!!!" phenomenon is wearing thin, people are realizing there are much better options of where to spend their vacation dollars.

When I talk to people who have returned from a WDW trip, "magic" is not a word they are using.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Opened MK, zero refreshes. Of value:

BTMRR for 4:45
Pirates 5:05 (with a low wait time though, posted at 20)
Tiana 4:45
Other more minor rides that are very far out or close but so low effort for standby that I would consider a waste.

Cool that Tiana is showing. I even refreshed and it was still there. Maybe I hit a drop. However wait times are pretty low, my glass half empty side thinks the availability relative to wait times is still poor.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Several people have reported that even though they could see supposed availability, they were not able to book it. As if that time option was a ghost or glitch.

I wonder if it’s a fastest fingers issue. By the time someone clicks through a legitimate option could be gone. If memory serves, FP+ held the times if they were showing up for you upon a refresh, but the tip board doesn’t?

 

[Ayla]

I used Genie+ prob 25x+......Every time i went to HS i got SDD, RNR (as long as it wasnt closed), TOT, MMRR, TSMM, MFSR and bought ILL ROTR,.........


Theres ZERO chance you can do that with this new system

The uncertainty is with the new system because of no inventory, not with Genie+

You claim you used Genie+ over twenty five times in 2 and a half years, getting all top tier rides...and you're complaining this new system somehow disadvantages you??

 

[GoofGoof]

We really need the full picture of drops and the ease of refreshes.

FP+ looked often terrible too at a single glance like that but was plentiful if you knew how to game it - like Genie, with actual usage in the parks I found more success with the rolling FP+ than the rolling Genie+ LL.

Edit - I just gave Epcot 10 refreshes to see, chose Epcot because there’s realistically only 2 rides to keep track of there. FEA showed up twice with 2 difference times, Remy showed up 3 times with 2 different times.

Yep, so far that seems to be the case. Similar to Genie+ refreshing and updating seems to work based on most of the reviews I’ve seen.

 

[cranbiz]

You claim you used Genie+ over twenty five times in 2 and a half years, getting all top tier rides...and you're complaining this new system somehow disadvantages you??

Don't feed the troll.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I've heard this sentiment expressed by posters on this site many times. What I truly don't understand is why people didn't just book the meals they wanted anyway. Essentially a receipt from a table service restaurant would turn your LL into an anytime pass for that ride. It was advantageous in some respects to book a G+ lightning lane that conflicted with your meal so that you could let it expire and hold for later.

Because as with so many things with WDW, you are at the mercy of pleading your case to the CM. (as opposed to something clearly stated in print.)

Mostly, I think many folks chose less expensive dining due to the added expense of G+, the threat of no-show fees, - AND -the crazy high buffet prices. IMO, $60 is just absurd price to charge anyone, but especially a 10-year old.

Me personally, it was mostly price, but also a desire to get the most value out of G+. Eating at a WDW TS is not your average real world TS. The WDW ones are very slow, especially if you are seated late. A few years ago, it was the norm to be seated 30+minutes late at places like 'Ohana. I got tired of it. they can't seat me on time, but then they want to charge me a no show fee if I refuse to wait to be seated? No thanks.

So we booked attractions rapid fire and ate QS during one of the short time gaps.

 

[doctornick]

I also think the hypothetical numbers that get thrown around when a true express style system is discussed are almost always too low. Unless you’re quoting VIP guide prices, you’re valuing unlimited and unscheduled entries lower than Disney does.

Unlimited and unscheduled (like Uni) passes at WDW would need to be something like $200-300 per person. No way they start selling anything for that price because of the grief they’d get for charging so much and being greedy (Disney gets more attention for such things than other places).

A one time per ride and timed format might be possible but would be close to $100 I’d guess.

 

[doctornick]

I have heard that but my experience was opposite...I did have success with FP+, but i had a lot more success with Genie+ and i think thats due to the inventory being more spread out........when i was there a couple weeks ago, at 7pm at MK when it closed at 10pm, i could get POC, Small World, Buzz, Thunder and HM as a walk on as my next Genie+ selection.........Most of those rides will be long gone by 7pm under this new system, never mind on a busy day

Of course a knowledgeable Genie+ user would do better than FP+ or LLMP because they benefit from more ignorant users only getting 1 or 2 useful passes a day. LLMP is going even things out since everyone buying gets at least 3 decent choices.

Even though G+ had equal opportunity for all, the outcomes were massively different for users of different skill and knowledge levels. What are seeing by the lower availability with LLMP is that the numbers are being more evenly distributed with likely most users falling into the 3-5 pass range. Since everyone starts the day with 3, the remaining selections will get used up much more rapidly. But the total numbers distributed should be similar (except for the lack of M&Gs)

 

[C33Mom]

Unlimited and unscheduled (like Uni) passes at WDW would need to be something like $200-300 per person. No way they start selling anything for that price because of the grief they’d get for charging so much and being greedy (Disney gets more attention for such things than other places).

A one time per ride and timed format might be possible but would be close to $100 I’d guess.

I would be happy to get either of those options. I believe 2 years ago at DLP it was about €150 to go on every ride once. Can’t remember if that was park specific or park hopper. I think Disney should be charging at least that much— will make for short waits for people willing to pay 2x admission for them and also shorter waits for everyone else in the standby line if fewer people use LLs.

 

[GoofGoof]

Of course a knowledgeable Genie+ user would do better than FP+ or LLMP because they benefit from more ignorant users only getting 1 or 2 useful passes a day. LLMP is going even things out since everyone buying gets at least 3 decent choices.

Even though G+ had equal opportunity for all, the outcomes were massively different for users of different skill and knowledge levels. What are seeing by the lower availability with LLMP is that the numbers are being more evenly distributed with likely most users falling into the 3-5 pass range. Since everyone starts the day with 3, the remaining selections will get used up much more rapidly. But the total numbers distributed should be similar (except for the lack of M&Gs)

It seems from early reports of LLMP that there are drops happening throughout the day similar to Genie+. I still think the biggest advantage knowledgable guests had was knowing this happened and knowing when and how to refresh. So I think the super users will still be able to work the system better and get a lot of what they want except for repeat rides. Less knowledgeable users are still getting at least their original 3 and likely a few more if they want which will likely be better than Genie+.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Of course a knowledgeable Genie+ user would do better than FP+ or LLMP because they benefit from more ignorant users only getting 1 or 2 useful passes a day. LLMP is going even things out since everyone buying gets at least 3 decent choices.

Even though G+ had equal opportunity for all, the outcomes were massively different for users of different skill and knowledge levels. What are seeing by the lower availability with LLMP is that the numbers are being more evenly distributed with likely most users falling into the 3-5 pass range. Since everyone starts the day with 3, the remaining selections will get used up much more rapidly. But the total numbers distributed should be similar (except for the lack of M&Gs)

It’s funny because at the end of every systems ‘life’ similar claims have been made. When FP+ went away for Genie+ there was a ton of concern they were stomping out the super user (same when paper left), which is ironic given the discussion in this thread. Also relevant: I think Genie+ is being looked back on with some serious rose coloured glasses, it was not as effortless to get the high numbers out of the system as some are portraying. If it was easy, it was probably being used where it wasn’t really needed. It took work and strategizing, and a solid plan going in in order to keep things efficient. It did not work well with every single type of day. I anticipate LLMP and LLSP will be the same.

As long as it’s a system where the guest has some control, and not one with defined outcomes and a la carte purchases, the educated guest always does better. We do better at the expense of guests who don’t properly understand how to for lack of a better word, exploit the systems given. But the systems have never by design given everybody that every headliner with ease kind of day.

 

[xxbradonxx]

If you had time and flexibility in the day to ride 15-20 majority being LL - and I’m assuming this had to involve hopping too at some points given the lack of repeats, my gut says a guest like you will be completely satisfied with this new system. It was possible under the most similar comparison we have, FP+, to do everything you wanted to.

You’ll need to learn how to play with it, but Genie+ absolutely didn’t spit out that kind of day without effort either.

I park hopped, usually started at one park in the morning and went to another park later in the day. We would go back to our resort and hit the pool usually between parks. Definitely would stack the second park but looking at the availability and tiers that won’t be nearly as easy or possible anymore. I did have it down to a science. If you take the payment part out genie+ was better then any fast pass when it came to the amount of rides you could do in a day. I really liked when you caught up on your passes you could book a new ride as soon as you hit the touch point. Looking at the availability the last few days it’s just not possible right now. Rides like Btmrr, hm and potc used to have availability 5 minutes out so I could skip a 15-45 minute line and knock all those rides out in no time. It was nice being able to take a 20 minute line and making it a 5 minute line. Looking at today in mk none of those rides had availability at all or are hours out. Sorry for the length of this and I hope you are right. I never got to ride Peter Pan or jungle cruise as much as I did the last few years. Sorry for the length of this response again but this is definitely not something I can talk about with regular people lol.

 

[doctornick]

It’s funny because at the end of every systems ‘life’ similar claims have been made. When FP+ went away for Genie+ there was a ton of concern they were stomping out the super user (same when paper left), which is ironic given the discussion in this thread. Also relevant: I think Genie+ is being looked back on with some serious rose coloured glasses, it was not as effortless to get the high numbers out of the system as some are portraying. If it was easy, it was probably being used where it wasn’t really needed. It took work and strategizing, and a solid plan going in in order to keep things efficient. It did not work well with every single type of day. I anticipate LLMP and LLSP will be the same.

As long as it’s a system where the guest has some control, and not one with defined outcomes and a la carte purchases, the educated guest always does better. We do better at the expense of guests who don’t properly understand how to for lack of a better word, exploit the systems given. But the systems have never by design given everybody that every headliner with ease kind of day.

Absolutely the educated guests will do better than uneducated. My suspicion though is that the peak won’t be quite as good as G+ but that the floor will be better than G+.

But I think super users will still do just fine. And if there are drops during the day and those get known then it potentially won’t be that different from G+

 

[bwr827]

When I talk to people who have returned from a WDW trip, "magic" is not a word they are using.

And when I talk to people who’ve returned, they are using “magic”.

Anecdote vs anecdote.

But, fewer people can afford the trip. And the extra costs for things like LL.

 

[Ayla]

I used the new LLMP system at MK yesterday (July 25th) having purchased it at 7am on the 24th as this was my only day in MK on this trip and wanted to do as many rides as possible.
Have to say I found the system incredibly similar to the old Fastpass system, with the 3 pre visit reservations and then as soon as scanning in, being able to book another one.
I was able to get 11 LLMP bookings in the day which meant I rode every ride bar Space and Astro Orbiter at least once, which on a busy July day is incredible.
My only gripe (apart from having to pay $29 for it now) is that it's a 1 and done system per ride, as some people like to ride a specific ride 2+ in a trip.
I'd estimate I saved approx 5hrs of listed waiting time.
For me, depending on the day its now a no brainer for MK.

I want to clarify the bolded ~ with this new system, you are only allowed to bypass an attraction once for the entirety of your ticket?? That can't possibly be correct.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

You have yet to provide these facts. I’d love to see em, and in not being snarky or sarcastic. Searching yields nothing but opinions.

I don’t think it’s logical Disney would move to a system that hurts more of its guests. I think they have better data than we do.

To some extent, WDW is always seeking ways to charge higher prices for further rationing of their product.

To some extent, every new version of FP succeeds, at least for a time, because people buy it to try it out, or they fear missing out (favorite rides)

This new version benefits WDW too because it is non-refundable. In the past, we might not have bought G+ if the weather looked iffy or we didn't feel up for a busy park day. And many of us would not have bought ILL's if we got a VQ. Now VQ's are in opposite land. If you don't buy the SPLL, then you are at the mercy of luck in getting a VQ. That a reversal of sorts.