Star Wars: The Acolyte

[Disney Irish]

I’m kinda with Walt on this…

Quality would win out

If that was case we wouldn't have 100s of reality tv shows airing 24 hours a day.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Yep, and to that point, I find Roblox and Minecraft the most dullest games on the face of the earth. But yet they are beloved by many in the younger generations.

Can’t argue with that

 

[networkpro]

People are still into this obsessive gatekeeping and insistence that their opinion is absolute.

Still insisting that no one liked Last Jedi despite a pretty obvious split down the middle.

Insisting the franchise is dead and no one likes it. I guess millions of people are watching the Acolyte to self punish?

Immediately latching onto that one Starcruiser review video as if one negative opinion is suddenly the definitive assessment of it.

So what do the last 500 audience reviews tell us about The Last Jedi? Not surprisingly, the film continues to polarize audiences. More than half of all reviewers (54.4%; n = 206 + 66 = 272) during this time either gave The Last Jedi the worst possible score on Rotten Tomatoes (0.5 Star) or the highest possible score (5 Stars). If the 10-point scale is condensed further to a 5-point scale, thus lumping together 0.5 and 1 Star scores and 4.5 and 5 Star scores, we find that only 29% of reviewers ranked The Last Jedi somewhere in the middle of the pack, from 1.5-4.0 Stars. Either this film is the greatest thing since sliced bread, or it ruined people’s lives/the Star Wars saga completely. Here is a top-level breakdown of the scores these 500 users gave to TLJ:

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Are you sure you’re not just projecting your own frustrations? The idea that The Last Jedi is universally disliked is based on a lot of feedback from fans, not just a few voices. Claiming there’s an even split feels like you’re trying to downplay the significant criticism it received.

Maybe it’s not about gatekeeping but about recognizing genuine disappointment from many fans. The insistence that holding a different opinion is wrong could simply be a reaction to those who feel their valid criticisms are being ignored or dismissed. It’s not about saying one view is objectively incorrect; it’s about acknowledging that the widespread criticism comes from a place of genuine concern for the franchise.

Perhaps the real issue here is not gatekeeping, but rather a need to understand why so many fans were upset with The Last Jedi. If the movie resonated more positively, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. So maybe it’s worth considering that the strong negative reactions are rooted in more than just a desire to gatekeep.

Except I'm not dismissing complaints. It's absurd to think any movie would satisfy all of the fans all of the time.

I'm acknowledging there are a wide range of opinions, whereas you continue to insist a movie was universally disliked, which is nonsense.

 

[erasure fan1]

Andor was incredible and was immediately forgotten.

You say Andor was incredible but was immediately forgotten. Does that not indicate a problem with the story’s lasting impact?

Andor was very good. It's by far the best shot, best acted, best looking star wars show by a mile. I liked it but I get why it didn't resonate with the broader audience. It was a much more slow paced mature show. It with the more hardcore fan but didn't move the needle with the a average fan.

The idea that anything from SW/LFL is automatically met with heavy bias isn't entirely accurate.

Exactly. They might go in with a more cautious mindset. But I think the acolyte shows people are willing to jump in. And if we are to believe the hidden agenda clan, it should have had a small fraction of the viewership number it had. The bashers have been blasting it since the first trailer. Yet people still tuned in to watch. In my opinion the next couple episodes are going to make or break the show.

It's not the fans job to blindly support whatever star wars puts in front of us. It's lucasfilms job to earn the viewership. So if the acolyte takes a nose dive, it's not because the online noise, it will be because they lost the interest of the audience.

 

[Disney Irish]

Are you sure you’re not just projecting your own frustrations? The idea that The Last Jedi is universally disliked is based on a lot of feedback from fans, not just a few voices. Claiming there’s an even split feels like you’re trying to downplay the significant criticism it received.

Maybe it’s not about gatekeeping but about recognizing genuine disappointment from many fans. The insistence that holding a different opinion is wrong could simply be a reaction to those who feel their valid criticisms are being ignored or dismissed. It’s not about saying one view is objectively incorrect; it’s about acknowledging that the widespread criticism comes from a place of genuine concern for the franchise.

Perhaps the real issue here is not gatekeeping, but rather a need to understand why so many fans were upset with The Last Jedi. If the movie resonated more positively, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. So maybe it’s worth considering that the strong negative reactions are rooted in more than just a desire to gatekeep.

No, I agree with Wendy there has been a lot of gatekeeping regarding SW over the years. Its not just a difference of opinions about quality, it literally shouting down any positivity regarding Disney SW as being wrong. I've been told I was wrong about my own personal opinions on the ST many times by posters because I wasn't willing to burn down Disney. You can see a bit of it just in this thread alone. Just because you agree with the opinions of those doing it doesn't mean its still not gatekeeping.

 

[BrianLo]

I liked TLJ. It's my favourite of all their post-Disney movies. I hated the fallout from it, which basically ruined my enjoyment of it. I think that was the goal though. I think everyone was ultimately left unsatisfied with the trilogy because they relented to the fanbase demands and left the entire thing a mess.

TLJ received an A cinemascore, which is indeed a relatively pure reaction from audiences, who actually saw the movie, before the temper tantrums started taking place. And if anything I'm sure opening audiences were "big Star Wars fans".

I'm not a Gen Xer though and I do take the strong belief that the long standing OT trilogy fans did not connect to the Luke they had been imagining for decades. Which is fair. Everything since has been a temper tantrum and trying to drag people into their misery. Let it go.

Why were Rogue One and Ahsoka 'accepted'? Because they predate TLJ. Even though I like TLJ, I'd be fine with the wish fulfillment version of that instead, because at least the whole product would be coherent and the fanbase might have a modicum of enjoyability to it. Maybe. Even if I liked the direction we almost got to go on.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm not a Gen Xer though and I do take the strong belief that the long standing OT trilogy fans did not connect to the Luke they had been imagining for decades. Which is fair. Everything since has been a temper tantrum and trying to drag people into their misery. Let it go.

Well I am a Gen Xer, and I connect with Luke in all the films from OT to ST. Many just couldn't accept that their hero's get old and grow and that changes ones outlook on life, and that unfortunately sometimes means those hero's getting disillusioned about things. And yep you're right too many wanted the Luke that they built up in their mind, something that was impossible.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

No, I agree with Wendy there has been a lot of gatekeeping regarding SW over the years. Its not just a difference of opinions about quality, it literally shouting down any positivity regarding Disney SW as being wrong. I've been told I was wrong about my own personal opinions on the ST many times by posters because I wasn't willing to burn down Disney. You can see a bit of it just in this thread alone. Just because you agree with the opinions of those doing it doesn't mean its still not gatekeeping.

I took some time to think about this over a BBQ sandwich with a cold Coke. It sounded amazing at the time, but when I finished it, I felt miserable. It’s exactly how I felt watching The Last Jedi. To this day, I dislike that movie, but I’m not stopping anyone from seeing it or saying you’re not a true fan for liking it.

It’s interesting that you agree with Wendy about gatekeeping, but have you considered that gatekeeping goes both ways? True gatekeeping also happens when fans who dislike the newer films are criticized or attacked for their views.

Gatekeeping involves trying to control who gets to be a “real” fan or what opinions are valid within the community, regardless of whether those opinions are positive or negative.

So, when you say there’s a lot of gatekeeping regarding Star Wars, are you sure you’re not overlooking the fact that the same thing happens to those who criticize the newer films? It’s not just about shouting down positivity regarding Disney Star Wars—it’s also about dismissing valid criticisms.

Just because Wendy experienced pushback for her positive opinions doesn’t mean that the opposite isn’t true as well. The real issue is the attempt to invalidate any differing opinion, which is a broader problem than just one side of the debate. Maybe it’s time to recognize that both positive and negative voices should be heard without being dismissed as gatekeeping.

I respect that you love Last Jedi Wendy, it just doesn’t agree with my stomach… much like the BBQ sandwich I just had.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Except I'm not dismissing complaints. It's absurd to think any movie would satisfy all of the fans all of the time.

I'm acknowledging there are a wide range of opinions, whereas you continue to insist a movie was universally disliked, which is nonsense.

I did not explicitly say that The Last Jedi is universally disliked. Instead, I acknowledge that there is significant criticism from many fans and argue against the idea of an even split, suggesting that the criticism is more widespread than you claim. Universally disliked means no one liked it, which isn’t true. As we saw on the graph of the 500 most recent reviews, 66 gave it 5 stars. And we know you love it, Wendy. So yes, it’s not universally disliked.

 

[Willmark]

Fair point. My 12-year-old girls have no interest in Marvel or Lucasfilm; they love YouTube and Roblox. However, they are excited to see Inside Out and Despicable Me. Younger generations have a multitude of high-quality options available to them instantly besides tv shows and the cinema.

Anecdotal but my kids have zero interest in SW. My friends group, one of which who has an early Gen Alpha (around 10) likewise has zero interest in it.

Now how do we walk this out? Hard to say. There is likely a wide spectrum to how SW is viewed now.

I think SW is certainly polarizing and sure some elements online are unpleasant. At the same time Disney is not blameless in this. For those who disagree with that statement? Shrug, YMMV and all.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I did not explicitly say that The Last Jedi is universally disliked. Instead, I acknowledge that there is significant criticism from many fans and argue against the idea of an even split, suggesting that the criticism is more widespread than you claim. Universally disliked means no one liked it, which isn’t true. As we saw on the graph of the 500 most recent reviews, 66 gave it 5 stars. And we know you love it, Wendy. So yes, it’s not universally disliked.

I'm skeptical of that graph because of the sheer number of of 0.5 star reviews.

There are very few movies in my experience that are so egregiously bad as to warrant a rating suggesting they have zero redeeming qualities.

 

[Willmark]

So what do the last 500 audience reviews tell us about The Last Jedi? Not surprisingly, the film continues to polarize audiences. More than half of all reviewers (54.4%; n = 206 + 66 = 272) during this time either gave The Last Jedi the worst possible score on Rotten Tomatoes (0.5 Star) or the highest possible score (5 Stars). If the 10-point scale is condensed further to a 5-point scale, thus lumping together 0.5 and 1 Star scores and 4.5 and 5 Star scores, we find that only 29% of reviewers ranked The Last Jedi somewhere in the middle of the pack, from 1.5-4.0 Stars. Either this film is the greatest thing since sliced bread, or it ruined people’s lives/the Star Wars saga completely. Here is a top-level breakdown of the scores these 500 users gave to TLJ:

(Building off your thoughts here)

TBQH? The top end should be viewed with much much scrutiny than the bottom. Why?

Call it 5 out of 5, 10 out of 10. Whatever scale one wants to use. For those people who scores it that way, that means they are ranking it with the greatest movies of all time? Take your pick: Scarface, Godfather, Gone with the Wind, etc. They are saying The Last Jedi actually ranks up there? Because that is what people are saying when they rank it that way. In no universe is TLJ ranking up there.

Now bring it back to the Acolyte, people are agreeing that if we use the critic scores, there are shows ranking 93% and above? Think about that. The Acolyte is better than 92% of TV shows.

A guess another way to say: people have been going on about review bombing. Might very well be the case. As is critics over-inflating their scores. Both can be true at the same time.

 

[erasure fan1]

Its not just a difference of opinions about quality, it literally shouting down any positivity regarding Disney SW as being wrong. I've been told I was wrong about my own personal opinions on the ST many times by posters because I wasn't willing to burn down Disney.

Yes, just as a lot of us have been shouted down because our disappointment with the sequels. Being told we have hidden agendas, and our opinion is wrong on how they handled the original characters...

I guess my thoughts on last Jedi boil down to one thing. If it didn't do significant damage to the brand, Disney wouldn't have abandoned theatrical star wars for what will end up being 7yrs most likely. And I'm not convinced the movies they have announced will ever get behind cameras. Disney wanted star wars to be a once a year release minimum. So for them to abandon it after the sequels ended, tells me something went horribly wrong. They had at least 5yrs to figure out what yhey were going to do after ep9. But now cancelation after cancelation after cancelation we are still waiting almost 5yrs years later for something to hit the theater. And I don't want to hear that it's coming. We've been hearing that for years. Something went wrong, very wrong, and last Jedi sure seems to be the epicenter as far as I can tell.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I liked TLJ. It's my favourite of all their post-Disney movies. I hated the fallout from it, which basically ruined my enjoyment of it. I think that was the goal though. I think everyone was ultimately left unsatisfied with the trilogy because they relented to the fanbase demands and left the entire thing a mess.

TLJ received an A cinemascore, which is indeed a relatively pure reaction from audiences, who actually saw the movie, before the temper tantrums started taking place. And if anything I'm sure opening audiences were "big Star Wars fans".

I'm not a Gen Xer though and I do take the strong belief that the long standing OT trilogy fans did not connect to the Luke they had been imagining for decades. Which is fair. Everything since has been a temper tantrum and trying to drag people into their misery. Let it go.

Why were Rogue One and Ahsoka 'accepted'? Because they predate TLJ. Even though I like TLJ, I'd be fine with the wish fulfillment version of that instead, because at least the whole product would be coherent and the fanbase might have a modicum of enjoyability to it. Maybe. Even if I liked the direction we almost got to go on.

Okay, we're all guilty of being way off topic now. Can we just get a general Star Wars discussion thread to rehash it all?

Having said that, I thought at the time they should have had J.J. and Rian write the third movie together. J.J. was capable of making a comforting Star Wars movie that felt reassuringly like classic Star Wars after the prequels, with Rian willing to do some new things.

They needed a planned out story to avoid things like setting up a question of Rey's parentage, with Rian justifiably saying there's no logical connection to an established character and J.J. going in another direction.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

I'm skeptical of that graph because of the sheer number of of 0.5 star reviews.

There are very few movies in my experience that are so egregiously bad as to warrant a rating suggesting they have zero redeeming qualities.

Wendy, I respect that you love The Last Jedi, and I’m not stopping anyone from enjoying it. However, if I could give The Last Jedi a score lower than zero, I would do it in a heartbeat. The movie still angers me even after 7 years. That’s just my opinion, and I might be in the minority.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Okay, we're all guilty of being way off topic now. Can we just get a general Star Wars discussion thread to rehash it all?

Having said that, I thought at the time they should have had J.J. and Rian write the third movie together. J.J. was capable of making a comforting Star Wars movie that felt reassuringly like classic Star Wars after the prequels, with Rian willing to do some new things.

They needed a planned out story to avoid things like setting up a question of Rey's parentage, with Rian justifiably saying there's no logical connection to an established character and J.J. going in another direction.

I agree with you on that point. Abrams should have handled all three films for consistency.

However, once Rian Johnson made The Last Jedi, he should have been allowed to finish his vision rather than handing it back to Abrams.

 

[Disney Irish]

I took some time to think about this over a BBQ sandwich with a cold Coke. It sounded amazing at the time, but when I finished it, I felt miserable. It’s exactly how I felt watching The Last Jedi. To this day, I dislike that movie, but I’m not stopping anyone from seeing it or saying you’re not a true fan for liking it.

It’s interesting that you agree with Wendy about gatekeeping, but have you considered that gatekeeping goes both ways? True gatekeeping also happens when fans who dislike the newer films are criticized or attacked for their views.

Gatekeeping involves trying to control who gets to be a “real” fan or what opinions are valid within the community, regardless of whether those opinions are positive or negative.

So, when you say there’s a lot of gatekeeping regarding Star Wars, are you sure you’re not overlooking the fact that the same thing happens to those who criticize the newer films? It’s not just about shouting down positivity regarding Disney Star Wars—it’s also about dismissing valid criticisms.

Just because Wendy experienced pushback for her positive opinions doesn’t mean that the opposite isn’t true as well. The real issue is the attempt to invalidate any differing opinion, which is a broader problem than just one side of the debate. Maybe it’s time to recognize that both positive and negative voices should be heard without being dismissed as gatekeeping.

I respect that you love Last Jedi Wendy, it just doesn’t agree with my stomach… much like the BBQ sandwich I just had.

Not to belabor this point much longer, but while I agree there has been a bit of gatekeeping on both sides one side is usually louder and more guilty of it, at least in my experience. SW is just one of those topics in which the old skool fans feel they have to protect "their" version of SW at all costs. And that anyone that is perceived to threaten that needs to be "dealt" with.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think one has to accept that maybe, just maybe, the younger generations don't hold things in the same regard that we in the older generation do. And that isn't the fault of the content in this case, that is just life.

And so just because one finds something atrocious because one has held it to different standards doesn't mean the younger generations have those same standards.

I was a little confused. Are you saying that younger generations are more likely to be "kinder" in their reviews than older ones who compare it to yesteryear?

In other words, where older generations might find TROS as trampling on Anakin's legacy, younger generations may not care? Or is it the other way around?

It’s fully legit to think they fandom has changed in 40 years…for a variety of reasons

It was up to Disney to figure out how to manipulate that. And they had a template. They’ve just been unsuccessful

 

[Jedijax719]

Somehow put Han and Luke together in a movie set between ROTJ and TFA and everyone should be happy again. You can sense that with the deaging of Hamil in Mando and Ford in Indy5, it's what they're working on.