News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[el_super]

Attendance can be artificially manipulated on a day to day basis to "move" people to lesser crowded days... but attendance for the year will remain the same.

I'm not talking about day to day changes. If they had kept pricing lower for Galaxy's Edge they could have filled the parks to the brim and recognized significant attendance gains. They choose not to because they didn't want 10 hours lines.

 

[Andrew25]

Universal is not number two and four in Orlando nor the Americas. At least not yet. 2023 numbers have yet to be released.

Harry Potter no doubt was a game changer and helped universal double attendance. But doubling your attendance when you only have a couple million visitors to begin with is not a significant as it sounds. View attachment 777854

You might want to take a second look at the numbers...

TEA last year kept the same ranking as 2019, but Islands of Adventure had higher numbers than Hollywood Studios, Epcot & Animal Kingdom.

Islands of Adventure was the 2nd most visited park in Orlando after MK.

 

[donsullivan]

You might want to take a second look at the numbers...

TEA last year kept the same ranking as 2019, but Islands of Adventure had higher numbers than Hollywood Studios, Epcot & Animal Kingdom.

Islands of Adventure was the 2nd most visited park in Orlando after MK.

This table might help with the last 10 years worth of attendance data for all Disney and Univeral parks in Orlando.

 

[peter11435]

You might want to take a second look at the numbers...

TEA last year kept the same ranking as 2019, but Islands of Adventure had higher numbers than Hollywood Studios, Epcot & Animal Kingdom.

Islands of Adventure was the 2nd most visited park in Orlando after MK.

There’s a reason TEA chose not to update their rankings and why those numbers are not comparable.

 

[LSLS]

Universal is not number two and four in Orlando nor the Americas. At least not yet. 2023 numbers have yet to be released.

Harry Potter no doubt was a game changer and helped universal double attendance. But doubling your attendance when you only have a couple million visitors to begin with is not a significant as it sounds. View attachment 777854

They are in Orlando. Those ranks are based on 2019 rankings, if you look at the 2022 numbers, IOA has 11,025, while DAK is 9,017, Epcot is 10,000, and DHS is 10,900

 

[Andrew25]

I'm not talking about day to day changes. If they had kept pricing lower for Galaxy's Edge they could have filled the parks to the brim and recognized significant attendance gains. They choose not to because they didn't want 10 hours lines.

Universal has also increased pricing (and has matched) WDW's pricing.

This table might help with the last 10 years worth of attendance data for all Disney and Univeral parks in Orlando.

View attachment 777860

Yup - easy to see a trend of UOR increasing attendance. Back in 2019, IOA was only 1 mil away from taking over DAK (which was still reeking benefits from Pandora, Hagrid had only opened halfway through the year, and Velocicoaster had yet to open).

There’s a reason TEA chose not to update their rankings and why those numbers are not comparable.

Yes, TEA is not 100% accurate, but they work with the parks to make sure they're somewhat aligned with attendance trends so Wall Street doesn't freak out with any unexpected attendance changes.

Once we get 2023, we can understand post-Covid impacts and how guests responded.

 

[donsullivan]

Universal has also increased pricing (and has matched) WDW's pricing.


Yup - easy to see a trend of UOR increasing attendance. Back in 2019, IOA was only 1 mil away from taking over DAK (which was still reeking benefits from Pandora, Hagrid had only opened halfway through the year, and Velocicoaster had yet to open).


Yes, TEA is not 100% accurate, but they work with the parks to make sure they're somewhat aligned with attendance trends so Wall Street doesn't freak out with any unexpected attendance changes.

Once we get 2023, we can understand post-Covid impacts and how guests responded.

2023 data is going to be the first real set of data on patterns. Disney took a much more conservative approach coming out of the pandemic than Universal which resulted in very skewed numbers in those years. 2023 should represent the back-to-normal pattern for the future.

 

[BrianLo]

Yup - easy to see a trend of UOR increasing attendance. Back in 2019, IOA was only 1 mil away from taking over DAK (which was still reeking benefits from Pandora, Hagrid had only opened halfway through the year, and Velocicoaster had yet to open).

Do you mean DHS? DAK was 3 million ahead.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Its going to interesting once EPIC opens and is up and running. The Disney die-hards will not go, but everyone else is going to give EPIC, Universal and IOA a try and that's for sure multiple days.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Before Potter, SeaWorld had higher attendance than Islands of Adventure.

Since 2009, attendance increases in Orlando from 2009 to 2019:
MK +22% | +3.7M
EP +13% | +1.5M
DHS +18% | +1.8M
DAK + 45% | +4.3M
USF + 98% | +5.4M
IOA +124% | +5.7M
SWO -20% | -1.2M

I just don't know how you can say Potter isn't a game-changer when it saw 124% growth in 10 years.
Disneyland from 2009-2019 saw a 17% change... Universal Hollywood saw 95% change.

Judging changes by percentages can be slightly misleading.

If all you had was a penny, and I gave you two more, you would think that you have just a pittance. But, I can proclaim that I grew your net worth by 200%!!

It's better to look at the second column for the absolute value of the change in guests. An extra 4M people for MK would be a lower percentage increase than 4M for just about any other park because they started with a lower figure.

[Not saying the Potter wasn't a game-changer. Just want to put the math in perspective.]

 

[BrianLo]

Its going to interesting once EPIC opens and is up and running. The Disney die-hards will not go, but everyone else is going to give EPIC, Universal and IOA a try and that's for sure multiple days.

The ideal 7 day visit I think is going to be 5 Disney + 2 Uni OR 2-3 Disney + 4-5 Uni (completely cutting out DAK) - mostly from a cost and feasibility perspective. The 5+2 is going to be the cheapest ticketing wise though and allows someone to still see all 7 parks with a semi-adequate allotment of time. That's probably the sweet spot until USF/IOA get busier.

The problem with 4+3 is you are buying full price tickets for both resorts... it's interesting. I'm doing entirely separate trips for them personally, but the math gets very murky if people want to do both, which I assume will still largely occur. Though Disney might facilitate this option better if they keep around the currently heavily discounted 4 day option next year.

The cost aspect is being a bit swept under the rug, the days of the 2 pay + 2 free at Uni are obviously over.

 

[Andrew25]

2023 data is going to be the first real set of data on patterns. Disney took a much more conservative approach coming out of the pandemic than Universal which resulted in very skewed numbers in those years. 2023 should represent the back-to-normal pattern for the future.

I think the issue is that there is no "back to normal" pattern. I'm obviously one person and speaking from my personal experience, but IOA is far busier than DAK on any given day... I'd have to imagine it'll at least beat DAK in attendance.

And it pains me to say that since DAK is my favorite park lol

The ideal 7 day visit I think is going to be 5 Disney + 2 Uni OR 2-3 Disney + 4-5 Uni (completely cutting out DAK) - mostly from a cost and feasibility perspective. The 5+2 is going to be the cheapest ticketing wise though and allows someone to still see all 7 parks with a semi-adequate allotment of time. That's probably the sweet spot until USF/IOA get busier.

Obviously depends on the demographics of the group, but you can easily fill an entire day at IOA and maybe half a day at USF. Once Epic opens it's a solid 2.5-3 day destination. Disney is a solid 3-3.5 day destination.

Sure the pandemic skewed numbers... but I think 2023 numbers will at least give us a "new normal" until Epic.

 

[UNCgolf]

The ideal 7 day visit I think is going to be 5 Disney + 2 Uni OR 2-3 Disney + 4-5 Uni (completely cutting out DAK) - mostly from a cost and feasibility perspective. The 5+2 is going to be the cheapest ticketing wise though and allows someone to still see all 7 parks with a semi-adequate allotment of time. That's probably the sweet spot until USF/IOA get busier.

The problem with 4+3 is you are buying full price tickets for both resorts... it's interesting. I'm doing entirely separate trips for them personally, but the math gets very murky if people want to do both, which I assume will still largely occur.

The cost aspect is being a bit swept under the rug, the days of the 2 pay + 2 free at Uni are obviously over.

I think 5 Disney + 2 Uni is what most split trip guests are doing now, and my guess is that will still be the move for most guests when UE opens -- they'll just replace a USF day with an EU day, since USF is a stretch to even call a half day park right now. With hoppers, you could do a couple of hours at USF in the morning, see essentially everything worth seeing, then take the Hogwarts Express over to IoA for the rest of the day if you really wanted to see all three.

Once Universal makes some necessary changes to USF, then you might see people spending 3 or even 4 days at Universal, although I think it will be pretty easy to do everything you might want to do in 3 days until they have more expansions at all the parks (EU should be a full day park, but it doesn't look like a multi-day park absent wanting to ride attractions multiple times).

 

[rd805]

I think 5 Disney + 2 Uni is what most split trip guests are doing now, and my guess is that will still be the move for most guests when UE opens -- they'll just replace a USF day with an EU day, since USF is a stretch to even call a half day park right now. With hoppers, you could do a couple of hours at USF in the morning, see essentially everything worth seeing, then take the Hogwarts Express over to IoA for the rest of the day if you really wanted to see all three.

Once Universal makes some necessary changes to USF, then you might see people spending 3 or even 4 days at Universal, although I think it will be pretty easy to do everything you might want to do in 3 days until they have more expansions at all the parks (EU should be a full day park, but it doesn't look like a multi-day park absent wanting to ride attractions multiple times).

What you are forgetting is that for a probably year-plus, Epic is going to be a madhouse. It's going to take a solid 2 days to explore all the nooks & crannies, that alone will keep people at a Uni Park for 3 days (2 at Epic, 1 Hop between IoA). Maybe the every day park goer won't realize this, but I have a feeling word will get out quickly what can be feasible at Epic in one day.

I also expect Uni to think of some ticket offer to keep people in their bubble. Maybe they'll look at it like they don't "need" to with all the anticipated foot traffic, but why wouldn't they offer a buy 4 days get 2 free kind of bundle. It seems very "Universal" to do something like that.

 

[BrianLo]

Obviously depends on the demographics of the group, but you can easily fill an entire day at IOA and maybe half a day at USF. Once Epic opens it's a solid 2.5-3 day destination. Disney is a solid 3-3.5 day destination.

Sure the pandemic skewed numbers... but I think 2023 numbers will at least give us a "new normal" until Epic.

Ya, that's what I just mean by it being interesting. The perfect amount of days is going to be grossly more expensive to achieve (4+3). It very much depends on the family and if they are in any way engaging in entertainment over exclusively rides.

I really think I would recommend 2 days worth of MK, 1 Epcot + 1 DHS (with park hopping), 1/2 in DAK and then a 1/2 in the families preferred park (Epcot for many, but people really seem to like DHS these days). 1 Epic and 1 USF/IOA sprint. You'll save 100+ Dollars a head and can fit them all in without being psycho ride warriors outside of USF/IOA (where there is barely entertainment anyways).

3 days at Uni I honestly feel one would still skew 2 Epic and then 1 USF/IOA. I just foresee Epic being slammed for a few years and slower to get through. Though I'll admit the USF/IOA day basically requires it being a highlights tour.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The ideal 7 day visit I think is going to be 5 Disney + 2 Uni OR 2-3 Disney + 4-5 Uni (completely cutting out DAK) - mostly from a cost and feasibility perspective. The 5+2 is going to be the cheapest ticketing wise though and allows someone to still see all 7 parks with a semi-adequate allotment of time. That's probably the sweet spot until USF/IOA get busier.

The problem with 4+3 is you are buying full price tickets for both resorts... it's interesting. I'm doing entirely separate trips for them personally, but the math gets very murky if people want to do both, which I assume will still largely occur. Though Disney might facilitate this option better if they keep around the currently heavily discounted 4 day option next year.

The cost aspect is being a bit swept under the rug, the days of the 2 pay + 2 free at Uni are obviously over.

Really good point!

It makes sense to do separate trips, but families may not have the vacation days to do that AND each trip may involve plane fare so dong the 4 +3 in one trip, may be the least expensive way to go.

Families may alternate years, skipping WDW completely to experience all three Universal Orlando parks.

The folks from Europe are real winners here as they commonly can take multiple weeks to enjoy both.

 

[Andrew25]

Really good point!

It makes sense to makes sense to do separate trips, but families may not have the vacation days to do that AND each trip may involve plane fare so dong the 4 +3 in one trip, may be the least expensive way to go.

The battle for Orlando will be over which resort gets the most days versus which resort gets completely skipped.

People still love both resorts... question is which one do they love to visit more often lol

 

[UNCgolf]

Ya, that's what I just mean by it being interesting. The perfect amount of days is going to be grossly more expensive to achieve (4+3). It very much depends on the family and if they are in any way engaging in entertainment over exclusively rides.

I really think I would recommend 2 days worth of MK, 1 Epcot + 1 DHS (with park hopping), 1/2 in DAK and then a 1/2 in the families preferred park (Epcot for many, but people really seem to like DHS these days). 1 Epic and 1 USF/IOA sprint. You'll save 100+ Dollars a head and can fit them all in without being psycho ride warriors outside of USF/IOA (where there is barely entertainment anyways).

3 days at Uni I honestly feel one would still skew 2 Epic and then 1 USF/IOA. I just foresee Epic being slammed for a few years and slower to get through. Though I'll admit the USF/IOA day basically requires it being a highlights tour.

Luckily for guests (in this specific scenario, not overall), USF's highlights are basically Diagon Alley and a couple of other attractions. There's just not much there. If they're staying on-site with an Express Pass, it should be pretty easy to do just about everything worth doing in USF/IOA in one day. Obviously a bit harder if you're waiting standby for everything, though.

The other thing is that there still isn't that much overlap in the target audience for the two resorts in terms of attraction lineups. EU moved in that direction to an extent with HTTYD and Nintendo, but families with smaller kids will probably still be able to do everything in EU in one day even when it's busy. Some of the major attractions will be skippable, and perhaps even the whole Monsters land (despite having a family coaster).

 

[Andrew25]

USF has great (and even greater soon) entertainment. Best comedy show in Orlando, stunt show, and constant street/live music entertainment.

 

[BrianLo]

Luckily for guests (in this specific scenario, not overall), USF's highlights are basically Diagon Alley and a couple of other attractions. There's just not much there. If they're staying on-site with an Express Pass, it should be pretty easy to do just about everything worth doing in USF/IOA in one day. Obviously a bit harder if you're waiting standby for everything, though.

IOA is weird because while we talk about it like a full day park (which it is), it is ONLY a full day ride park.

If you've knocked out all the rides in MK, you still haven't really engaged in a lot of what the park has to offer.

If you've knocked out all the rides in Epcot, you still haven't really engaged in World Showcase, films or exhibits.

If you've knocked out all the rides in IOA... you can grab a wand and enjoy Hogsmead a bit more.

So while MK, Epcot and IOA are all worthy 1 day ride parks. MK and Epcot are actually 2 day "attraction parks" and IOA is still just a 1 day "ride park". The 7 day split-resort feasibility is going to come off the rails though by end of decade when DAK hopefully has a night show again and USF has Pokemon. Then the hard cuts in the itineraries start! 14 day stays are in.