News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[flynnibus]

I think 5 Disney + 2 Uni is what most split trip guests are doing now, and my guess is that will still be the move for most guests when UE opens

The real competition will be at the 4-5 day mark IMHO. Doing UNI for 2 days is the nearly the most expensive way to do it and they know it.. and that situation will continue as they want to drive towards 4-5 day stays. My kid wanted to go with friends at the end of the month. They are getting 4 days with park hopping for basically what 2 days w/o park hopping would have cost them. And that's before any EPIC bundling going on.

I don't think people will keep trying to squeeze UNI in for 2 days.. 3-4 will likely be people's point to sweat and where both companies will try to ensure they don't fall below 4 days.

The battle will be which hotel you stay at, and who gets the minimum 4 days.

 

[flynnibus]

There's just not much there. If they're staying on-site with an Express Pass, it should be pretty easy to do just about everything worth doing in USF/IOA in one day. Obviously a bit harder if you're waiting standby for everything, though

This sounds like the argument when people moaned forever that DHS or DAK was only a half day park... because if they only did the things they REALLY liked... they were done by noon.

Yet, those are repeat visitors, and the kind that won't sit back and usually were more the non-show types of people.

While meanwhile people who actually went around the park, and did more of what it offered, didn't have this same dead horse argument. People, especially less familar people, don't tour that same way.... unless they have someone in their ear telling them to skip everything else.

 

[UNCgolf]

The real competition will be at the 4-5 day mark IMHO. Doing UNI for 2 days is the nearly the most expensive way to do it and they know it.. and that situation will continue as they want to drive towards 4-5 day stays. My kid wanted to go with friends at the end of the month. They are getting 4 days with park hopping for basically what 2 days w/o park hopping would have cost them. And that's before any EPIC bundling going on.

I don't think people will keep trying to squeeze UNI in for 2 days.. 3-4 will likely be people's point to sweat and where both companies will try to ensure they don't fall below 4 days.

The battle will be which hotel you stay at, and who gets the minimum 4 days.

I think you're right in the long run -- I just think short term it will be hard to get people to commit to giving up additional time at one of the Disney parks in favor of USF when it's much weaker across the board.

It's possible people decide to spend an extra day at EU instead as mentioned above, though.

 

[UNCgolf]

This sounds like the argument when people moaned forever that DHS or DAK was only a half day park... because if they only did the things they REALLY liked... they were done by noon.

Yet, those are repeat visitors, and the kind that won't sit back and usually were more the non-show types of people.

While meanwhile people who actually went around the park, and did more of what it offered, didn't have this same dead horse argument. People, especially less familar people, don't tour that same way.... unless they have someone in their ear telling them to skip everything else.

It's not remotely the same.

You aren't going to find many people who think USF offers enough quality to be a full day experience; it's not some wild minority opinion.

The problem is that the attraction lineup at USF is legitimately awful right now. I'm also not a regular repeat visitor, so your argument doesn't apply to me. We tried to do everything there when we visited a few years ago and it's just not good. Diagon Alley is obviously fantastic, though.

 

[flynnibus]

The ideal 7 day visit I think is going to be 5 Disney + 2 Uni OR 2-3 Disney + 4-5 Uni (completely cutting out DAK) - mostly from a cost and feasibility perspective. The 5+2 is going to be the cheapest ticketing wise though and allows someone to still see all 7 parks with a semi-adequate allotment of time. That's probably the sweet spot until USF/IOA get busier.

I don't see that... UNI doesn't really give any breaks for 2 day tickets... and Disney doesn't give breaks really till about the 5 day mark. Right now, UNI is the one who discounts the hardest once past their 3 day mark.. and of course that target will move with EPIC.. but I don't think 5+2 is a good split even today.

I expect the biggest offers will be in the room+ticket deals... from both camps.

 

[Andrew25]

It's not remotely the same.

You aren't going to find many people who think USF offers enough quality to be a full day experience; it's not some wild minority opinion.

The problem is that the attraction lineup at USF is legitimately awful right now. I'm also not a regular repeat visitor, so your argument doesn't apply to me at all. We tried to do everything there and it's just not good.

I wouldn't say it's awful... just has some huge duds.

Mummy, MIB, ET, Bourne, Horror Makeup, Gringotts are great attractions. Not even touching some of the "decent" options like Fallon & Transformers.

Oh... we're also getting a new parade and nighttime show to convince people to stay late.

 

[UNCgolf]

I wouldn't say it's awful... just had some huge duds.

Mummy, MIB, ET, Bourne, Horror Makeup, Gringotts are great attractions. Not even touching some of the "decent" options like Fallon & Transformers.

Oh... we're also getting a new parade and nighttime show to convince people to stay late.

I personally thought Transformers was terrible. Like to the extent I wouldn't ride it again as a walk-on. I also wouldn't call MIB or Gringotts great; they'd both go into the "decent" category for me (Diagon Alley itself is great, though).

Obviously that's all subjective, but I don't think too many people would disagree that it has the weakest attraction lineup of any of the Universal/Disney parks. DAK is the only one that I think you could even argue (I personally think DAK is stronger; it has several attractions better than anything USF offers), but DAK also has a lot of additional stuff that USF doesn't have with the animal trails etc.

 

[BrianLo]

I don't see that... UNI doesn't really give any breaks for 2 day tickets... and Disney doesn't give breaks really till about the 5 day mark. Right now, UNI is the one who discounts the hardest once past their 3 day mark.. and of course that target will move with EPIC.. but I don't think 5+2 is a good split even today.

I expect the biggest offers will be in the room+ticket deals... from both camps.

That's exactly my point, I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. There's no more free 3rd day option moving forward for Universal once Epic rolls out. It doesn't support split stays well anymore, you almost just need to either commit to the entire stay at Uni or suck it up and increase the ticketing spend.

4+3 was always 'fine' before as you were either (in essence) turning down a free day at Disney or a free day at Universal. Or you could even save money and go 3 Disney + 4 Universal and drop off DAK.

In order to access the free days now you either have to go for 5 days at Disney or 4 days at Universal... so it really is a forced choice. All roads also lead to another 'full priced day' with Epic onboarding. The cheap side trip to Universal option is going away.

 

[montyz81]

I put this in another thread, but I probably should have put it here. With $60B US, is there a chance Disney would be wise and earmark $100M for new Monorail trains and possibly an expansion to AK or Springs?

 

[flynnibus]

It's not remotely the same.

You aren't going to find many people who think USF offers enough quality to be a full day experience; it's not some wild minority opinion.

The problem is that the attraction lineup at USF is legitimately awful right now. I'm also not a regular repeat visitor, so your argument doesn't apply to me at all. We tried to do everything there and it's just not good.

Minions x2
Rip Rocket
Mummy
JimmyF
Transformers
Gringots
Diagon Alley exploring
MIB
Simpsons
ET
Bourne
Horror Makeup
Lunch
Break

That's 13+ things most guests would be told they should try... And most would have even a hard time completing in a day. Yes, if you still have young kids that fear everything, USF (and IOA) are less desirable for you with less to do. But that's not the center of the target anyway.

And of that list, really only Simpsons is super long in the tooth. And that list is if someone were told to skip F&F and did none of the kids area stuff.

Your dislike of UNI is well covered... but to blanket write off USF like you have is unwarranted and projecting of your own... or the UNI fanboys who are yearning for major new stuff and aren't satisified with only Transformers being the only big time non-HP ride added in a long time... because they discount the reworked attractions and poo on transformers as a clone.

 

[UNCgolf]

That's exactly my point, I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. There's no more free 3rd day option moving forward for Universal once Epic rolls out. It doesn't support split stays well anymore, you almost just need to either commit to the entire stay at Uni or suck it up and increase the ticketing spend.

4+3 was always 'fine' before as you were either (in essence) turning down a free day at Disney or a free day at Universal. Or you could even save money and go 3 Disney + 4 Universal and drop off DAK.

In order to access the free days now you either have to go for 5 days at Disney or 4 days at Universal... so it really is a forced choice.

Right, this is what I was trying to get at before. 5 days at Disney is a much better value than 4 at Universal right now in terms of park experiences. That could change going forward as Universal rolls out more expansions, but since Disney is apparently going to do the same, who knows.

But as I also said above, I there's still a pretty significant difference in core audience for the two resorts, at least in terms of attractions. They've both tried to move towards each other with HTTYD/Nintendo at EU and Disney adding TRON and Cosmic Rewind, but I think there's still a dividing line between the two in terms of the general experience they offer.

 

[Andrew25]

I personally thought Transformers was terrible. Like to the extent I wouldn't ride it again as a walk-on. I also wouldn't call MIB or Gringotts great; they'd both go into the "decent" category for me (Diagon Alley itself is great, though).

Obviously that's all subjective, but I don't think too many people would disagree that it has the weakest attraction lineup of any of the Universal/Disney parks. DAK is the only one that I think you could even argue (I personally think DAK is stronger; it has several attractions better than anything USF offers), but DAK also has a lot of additional stuff that USF doesn't have with the animal trails etc.

USF is not my favorite, and definitely in danger of being "dropped" in favor of Epic, but it's far from a horrible park. It just has some "dark areas" they need to clean up (which, they have plans for).

That's exactly my point, I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. There's no more free 3rd day option moving forward for Universal once Epic rolls out. It doesn't support split stays well anymore, you almost just need to either commit to the entire stay at Uni or suck it up and increase the ticketing spend.

4+3 was always 'fine' before as you were either (in essence) turning down a free day at Disney or a free day at Universal. Or you could even save money and go 3 Disney + 4 Universal and drop off DAK.

In order to access the free days now you either have to go for 5 days at Disney or 4 days at Universal... so it really is a forced choice. All roads also lead to another 'full priced day' with Epic onboarding. The cheap side trip to Universal option is going away.

+ add that Universal is tinkering with the idea of pulling a Disneyland SWGE and possibly only allowing single-day tickets to access Epic for the first few months.

I put this in another thread, but I probably should have put it here. With $60B US, is there a chance Disney would be wise and earmark $100M for new Monorail trains and possibly an expansion to AK or Springs?

$100M... more like $1B lol

 

[Jrb1979]

Minions x2
Rip Rocket
Mummy
JimmyF
Transformers
Gringots
Diagon Alley exploring
MIB
Simpsons
ET
Bourne
Horror Makeup
Lunch
Break

That's 13+ things most guests would be told they should try... And most would have even a hard time completing in a day. Yes, if you still have young kids that fear everything, USF (and IOA) are less desirable for you with less to do. But that's not the center of the target anyway.

And of that list, really only Simpsons is super long in the tooth. And that list is if someone were told to skip F&F and did none of the kids area stuff.

Your dislike of UNI is well covered... but to blanket write off USF like you have is unwarranted and projecting of your own... or the UNI fanboys who are yearning for major new stuff and aren't satisified with only Transformers being the only big time non-HP ride added in a long time... because they discount the reworked attractions and poo on transformers as a clone.

IMO what it comes down to is the majority of guests aren't ride pounders and never have been. For my family we could care less about shows, fireworks or dining. Our last trip to Universal we rode the Mummy 11 times

 

[UNCgolf]

Minions x2
Rip Rocket
Mummy
JimmyF
Transformers
Gringots
Diagon Alley exploring
MIB
Simpsons
ET
Bourne
Horror Makeup
Lunch
Break

That's 13+ things most guests would be told they should try... And most would have even a hard time completing in a day. Yes, if you still have young kids that fear everything, USF (and IOA) are less desirable for you with less to do. But that's not the center of the target anyway.

And of that list, really only Simpsons is super long in the tooth. And that list is if someone were told to skip F&F and did none of the kids area stuff.

Your dislike of UNI is well covered... but to blanket write off USF like you have is unwarranted and projecting of your own... or the UNI fanboys who are yearning for major new stuff and aren't satisified with only Transformers being the only big time non-HP ride added in a long time... because they discount the reworked attractions and poo on transformers as a clone.

I'm not projecting -- I'm not basing this on my personal opinion of USF.

I'm basing it on what I've read both here and elsewhere, that USF is generally considered the weakest park of the six.

That could be wrong; I'm not claiming it as a fact (and I don't think there's any way to objectively determine that regardless, other than one park being significantly behind all the others in attendance and that's certainly not the case).

 

[BrianLo]

+ add that Universal is tinkering with the idea of pulling a Disneyland SWGE and possibly only allowing single-day tickets to access Epic for the first few months.

Then there's the complete rogue option where I say buy 2 days for Epic only.

But I am doing a Universal only stay as mentioned, it's not a criticism of Universal at all. It's just something I don't think we've fully played out yet how the average person is going to roll with the very expensive ticketing increase that is forthcoming.

Probably the one thing that has the most to gain is Volcano Bay, as Universal sees way more 7-day exclusive uptake, those people need something else to do and 7 days on just the three parks is going to still be overkill. 7 days at Disney is still highly water-park skippable - as we've clearly seen.

 

[flynnibus]

That's exactly my point, I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. There's no more free 3rd day option moving forward for Universal once Epic rolls out. It doesn't support split stays well anymore, you almost just need to either commit to the entire stay at Uni or suck it up and increase the ticketing spend.

The 3rd day target will simply move. It's not like both sides won't be aggressively targeting the extended length stay discounting.

Let's put EPIC's first year aside... they won't drop their pants for it up front because they don't need to. The interesting bit will be to see how far UNI is willing to price EPIC at a separate price point and force it's purchase vs simply treating it as 'another day'. UNI is also going to be at the point where they really expect to be filling those hotels. I bet they use the hotels to be their big pricing token in the fight while protecting the theme park ticket price points.

4+3 was always 'fine' before as you were either (in essence) turning down a free day at Disney or a free day at Universal. Or you could even save money and go 3 Disney + 4 Universal and drop off DAK.

In order to access the free days now you either have to go for 5 days at Disney or 4 days at Universal... so it really is a forced choice. All roads also lead to another 'full priced day' with Epic onboarding. The cheap side trip to Universal option is going away.

I don't think the 'buy 2 get 2' style promos are really the core of the argument. It should be more about the pricing STRUCTURE, not the rotating discounts.

Neither property is going to be pricing attractive to visit for short stays. So my theory is I expect the war to be over where people stay and if the 'on property' perks become the new war along with discounting to try to swing the battle to their favor. Could UNI even partner with someone to make cross-resort travel even easier? UNI will be motivated to do this kind of stuff... while Disney will be all on the defensive to try to protect what's left of the bubble.

For repeat visitors, I bet we see more and more 'this trip was our UNI' trip and alternating/changing per trip and less split trips unless Disney flounders and can't fill 5 days.

 

[UNCgolf]

USF is not my favorite, and definitely in danger of being "dropped" in favor of Epic, but it's far from a horrible park. It just has some "dark areas" they need to clean up (which, they have plans for).

Diagon Alley alone keeps it from being horrible regardless of anything else (and it's not the only worthwhile thing there), but it had a much stronger attraction lineup in the 1990s than it does now. Almost every attraction replacement is weaker than what it replaced, unfortunately.

But yeah, I know they have plans to overhaul/expand, which is why I think it's only a short-term problem for them and not a long-term one.

 

[flynnibus]

Then there's the complete rogue option where I say buy 2 days for Epic only.

Actually, I'd bet for most cross-over/Theme Park 'fans' that kind of trip would be more common. People already know the other parks... and they will be chasing 'the new'. But that should be more of a first three years kind of phenom and not necessarily the design pattern going forward.

 

[BrianLo]

Neither property is going to be pricing attractive to visit for short stays. So my theory is I expect the war to be over where people stay and if the 'on property' perks become the new war along with discounting to try to swing the battle to their favor. Could UNI even partner with someone to make cross-resort travel even easier? UNI will be motivated to do this kind of stuff... while Disney will be all on the defensive to try to protect what's left of the bubble.

For repeat visitors, I bet we see more and more 'this trip was our UNI' trip and alternating/changing per trip and less split trips unless Disney flounders and can't fill 5 days.

Ya and I guess that's really my point at the end of the day. This is a landmark shift in pricing for the week-long vacationer. I actually expect Uni may want to rush a second water park. That better completes a 7 day resort experience and Volcano Bay as mentioned may become unbearable otherwise.

As you say, the trip rotations are coming in down the pipe. We're barely clinging onto a viable split stay strategy.

 

[montyz81]

$100M... more like $1B lol

It can't be that much for the train sets. I can't believe that they would put so much money into Orlando without ordering new trains at the very least.