For Reference: Space for a 5th Park at Walt Disney World

[Andrew25]

That's a fair point to an extent. However, times have obviously changed in several ways:

First, there are simply more people in the parks on a regular basis than there were in the Eisner era. The lines are simply longer throughout the year, even during off season.

There are definitely more people today at the parks than 10-15 years ago... but there are also the same amount of attractions as there were 10-15 years ago.

So... demand is up and capacity has remained stagnant.

I don't know how you can champion a 5th gate when DAK has the same number of attractions as one entire land at MK.

 

[Eric M Blake]

There are definitely more people today at the parks than 10-15 years ago... but there are also the same amount of attractions as there were 10-15 years ago.

So... demand is up and capacity has remained stagnant.

I don't know how you can champion a 5th gate when DAK has the same number of attractions as one entire land at MK.

Oh I agree on that--and we know Disney's working on that, with the "Beyond" project for filling out the empty chunk between Fantasyland, Frontierland, and the railroad. Plus the Dinoland renovation into Zootopia.

The simple fact is, one way or another WDW needs more stuff. The only question is HOW MUCH.

That's why Disney has the possibility OPEN for a 5th Gate. Because somewhere down the line, "Just expand the parks we have!" won't be much of a solution. (DHS only has so much extra space to fill into, for example. Same for EPCOT. )

See the other reasons I gave on the previous page.

 

[DisneyDean97]

I'm curious where this hypothetical 5th park would go... like where on property would the fit this? There seems like there's a lot of room off of Western Way, near Coronado Springs-- would be interesting to see where Disney would put it, I'm assuming they would want it to have its own resort area as well, like the other parks have.

 

[Kamikaze]

There are definitely more people today at the parks than 10-15 years ago... but there are also the same amount of attractions as there were 10-15 years ago.

So... demand is up and capacity has remained stagnant.

I don't know how you can champion a 5th gate when DAK has the same number of attractions as one entire land at MK.

They need to do one or the other, though, and not just replace things with other things. That's the issue they've always had. They need to commit to expansion and not just replacement.

I would venture to guess that an additional gate would spread guests out more than a new land at an existing park.

 

[Eric M Blake]

I'm curious where this hypothetical 5th park would go... like where on property would the fit this? There seems like there's a lot of room off of Western Way, near Coronado Springs-- would be interesting to see where Disney would put it, I'm assuming they would want it to have its own resort area as well, like the other parks have.

Well, at the beginning of this thread, the OP had a map showing all the areas still deemed "suitable." His blue arrow points to the spot that, by all accounts, is the most perfect for a 5th Gate. Observe:

As has also been discussed, the green "unsuitable" areas have precedent for being usable for parking lot space. Thus, it's an ideal "easy" area for a park, and a resort in the adjacent "red" to the right of it, just south of Ft Wilderness.

Now, as you can see, there's another "big red" RIGHT next to Wide World Of Sports (bottom of WDW, middle of the map)...but for obvious reasons, that's a little busy. And the "red" right above the Animal Kingdom reserve (Kilimanjaro Safaris) would require a lot of finesse--the animals PROBABLY wouldn't care for the noise.

Other "possible but less likely" areas include the potential "butterfly" with Disney Hollywood studios...

...and the corner between Magic Kingdom and the golf course.

Again, both would require some finesse. The last has the most POTENTIAL of all the possibilities...but achieving that potential (fixing up all the yellow "marginally suitable" parts of it) would require a lot of work.

 

[Eric M Blake]

They need to do one or the other, though, and not just replace things with other things. That's the issue they've always had. They need to commit to expansion and not just replacement.

I would venture to guess that an additional gate would spread guests out more than a new land at an existing park.

Precisely. Expanding MK and DHS, and renovating Dinoland in AK, are good short-term solutions...but a 5th Gate is long-term.

 

[DisneyDean97]

Well, at the beginning of this thread, the OP had a map showing all the areas still deemed "suitable." His blue arrow points to the spot that, by all accounts, is the most perfect for a 5th Gate. Observe:

View attachment 720497
View attachment 720526
As has also been discussed, the green "unsuitable" areas have precedent for being usable for parking lot space. Thus, it's an ideal "easy" area for a park, and a resort in the adjacent "red" to the right of it, just south of Ft Wilderness.

Now, as you can see, there's another "big red" RIGHT next to Wide World Of Sports (bottom of WDW, middle of the map...but for obvious reasons, that's a little busy. And the "red" right above the Animal Kingdom reserve (Kilimanjaro Safaris) would require a lot of finesse--the animals PROBABLY wouldn't care for the noise.

Other "possible but less likely" areas include the potential "butterfly" with Disney Hollywood studios...

View attachment 720519

...and the corner between Magic Kingdom and the golf course.

View attachment 720522

Again, both would require some finesse. The last has the most POTENTIAL of all the possibilities...but achieving that potential (fixing up all the yellow "marginally suitable" parts of it) would require a lot of work.

Wow, so the two most likely possibilities are right near Magic Kingdom... interesting

 

[Kamikaze]

Wow, so the two most likely possibilities are right near Magic Kingdom... interesting

I said ever since they built the GF walkway - there's a reason they did that after all these years.

 

[Nottamus]

5th park cost- 17.1 billion

Earmarked $ for parks - 17 billion

Oooooh, so close.

 

[Eric M Blake]

5th park cost- 17.1 billion

Earmarked $ for parks - 17 billion

Oooooh, so close.

Keep in mind, the 5th Gate doesn't need to cost NEARLY that much.

As discussed earlier, $7 billion is a generous estimate. Higher than the $6 billion price tag for Universal Orlando's Epic Universe--which is itself a record.

It'll probably be less.

 

[Kamikaze]

Keep in mind, the 5th Gate doesn't need to cost NEARLY that much.

As discussed earlier, $7 billion is a generous estimate. Higher than the $6 billion price tag for Universal Orlando's Epic Universe--which is itself a record.

It'll probably be less.

/r/woooosh

 

[Eric M Blake]

/r/woooosh

Indeed? What's being missed?

 

[Kamikaze]

Indeed? What's being missed?

He was making a funny.

 

[Eric M Blake]

He was making a funny.

Ah.

Poe's Law, and all that.

 

[HauntedPirate]

They need to do one or the other, though, and not just replace things with other things. That's the issue they've always had. They need to commit to expansion and not just replacement.

I would venture to guess that an additional gate would spread guests out more than a new land at an existing park.

The Bob's's's's decisions to rip-and-replace when all the parks needed more capacity were the some of the biggest, most baffling, and most bone-headed examples of boardroom buffoonery I can think of since September 2005. Right there along with that is Bob 1.0's buy-in on NextGen and belief that the parks were "mature".

 

[lazyboy97o]

The Bob's's's's decisions to rip-and-replace when all the parks needed more capacity were the some of the biggest, most baffling, and most bone-headed examples of boardroom buffoonery I can think of since September 2005. Right there along with that is Bob 1.0's buy-in on NextGen and belief that the parks were "mature".

They were both part of the same strategy to provide the minimum capacity and strain it as much as possible. It was also very much inherited from Eisner.

 

[Eric M Blake]

Agreed. People keep forgetting, the removal of Eisner was ultimately necessary to restore Roy Disney's authority (until, sadly, his death 4 years later) and bring back some creative energy to the company. As the Imagineers miniseries lays out, Eisner was initially GREAT...but following the death of his excellent sidekick AND the financial struggles of EuroDisney aka Disneyland Paris, he ultimately moved to a "play it safe" mindset.

And after Roy's death in 2009, Iger did exactly the same.

 

[HauntedPirate]

They were both part of the same strategy to provide the minimum capacity and strain it as much as possible. It was also very much inherited from Eisner.

It's as if there was some team that was made up of strategic planners or something who were influencing decisions...

 

[HauntedPirate]

Agreed. People keep forgetting, the removal of Eisner was ultimately necessary to restore Roy Disney's authority (until, sadly, his death 4 years later) and bring back some creative energy to the company. As the Imagineers miniseries lays out, Eisner was initially GREAT...but following the death of his excellent sidekick AND the financial struggles of EuroDisney aka Disneyland Paris, he ultimately moved to a "play it safe" mindset.

And after Roy's death in 2009, Iger did exactly the same.

Eisner's legacy is two-fold: First decade with Frank Wells, and second decade post-Wells' death and Eisner's heart attack. The first decade speaks for itself. They stopped doing big and bold in the latter, and the wheels really came off the bus and sadly set the stage for what has come since 1996-ish.

Thank goodness DLP was built in the first decade. Not perfect, but pretty damn good, better than anything else they built after EPCOT Center. And he still had enough sense to let Rohde run with AK in the second decade (and Everest), although there could have been more, IIRC, but things were cut.

 

[Eric M Blake]

Eisner's legacy is two-fold: First decade with Frank Wells, and second decade post-Wells' death and Eisner's heart attack. The first decade speaks for itself. They stopped doing big and bold in the latter, and the wheels really came off the bus and sadly set the stage for what has come since 1996-ish.

Thank goodness DLP was built in the first decade. Not perfect, but pretty damn good, better than anything else they built after EPCOT Center. And he still had enough sense to let Rohde run with AK in the second decade (and Everest), although there could have been more, IIRC, but things were cut.

Yup. As discussed earlier, the "lower left" corner of AK was originally going to be "Beastly Kingdom" (or probably "Beastland," to jive with Dinoland), with a dragon thrill ride and unicorns and what-not. But it was ultimately deemed WAY too expensive, so they did Camp Minnie-Mickey for essentially filler. Now we've got Pandora, of course.

Frankly, it may prove to have been for the best. Not just because Pandora's pretty cool, but because what they were going for with "Beastly Kingdom"/"Beastland" was so complex it may as well have been a base concept for a whole park....