Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Casper Gutman]

Reject.

100% increases in 2 years at the grocery is not “logistics”. Check it.

CEOs were caught on mic saying “why not take it?” Over the last couple of years when “supply logistics” loosened.

Nope. Just the hunger games.

Yup. An increasing number of economists and bankers are coming to believe that inflation is being driven by companies padding profits. The big difference in the last several years is not that corporations are greedier (they’re always greedy) but that global instability (war, pandemic, etc.) has created an environment in which consumers are willing to pay higher prices and blame factors other then corporate greed, giving companies an opportunity to gouge. It’s why we’re not seeing wage inflation the way we’re seeing price inflation. Is this all correct? Who knows. But very smart people are seeing it as increasingly plausible.

 

[JD80]

Which again is insane and makes me wonder if we finally have crossed the rubicon…at some point consumers were not gonna pay what Disney wanted while noticing stagnation and loss of perks.

I edited my post to show household income as well from my state (maryland).

 

[networkpro]

The drive for profit is just one item in play. Another was the increase in the money supply relative to the size of the economy due to the "Covid 19 Free Money" programs, they didn't make any new economic inputs, they just printed more bills which decreased the value of the existing currency.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The drive for profit is just one item in play. Another was the increase in the money supply relative to the size of the economy due to the "Covid 19 Free Money" programs, they didn't make any new economic inputs, they just printed more bills which decreased the value of the existing currency.

But the companies capitalized by overcharging to get that money…some to recoup the labor they didn’t want to pay…but also to pad their stock

Now we can pass Go and collect $200

 

[larryz]

I blame it on the rising costs of traveling to WDW: higher air fares, higher gas prices, higher hotel room rates, more expensive food, and MUCH higher park admission prices.

 

[SamusAranX]

I edited my post to show household income as well from my state (maryland).

Oh now I understand what you meant. My apologies

yesterworld entertainment has a great video on the insane percentages tickets have increased with inflation in account…and he made it using 2021 data

 

[SamusAranX]

The drive for profit is just one item in play. Another was the increase in the money supply relative to the size of the economy due to the "Covid 19 Free Money" programs, they didn't make any new economic inputs, they just printed more bills which decreased the value of the existing currency.

“No free lunch”

I won’t say I struggle, but it is harder to budget now as an individual. I can’t imagine a necessities budget for a family of 4 with these prices…let alone a Disney vacation

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

“No free lunch”

I won’t say I struggle, but it is harder to budget now as an individual. I can’t imagine a necessities budget for a family of 4 with these prices…let alone a Disney vacation

I think after 50 years of attempting to do it…the halls of power are finally succeeding

A bill passed in 2017 was designed specifically to crush the middle. Huge blow if you’re successful without being “rich”.

And this “inflationary period” is just salt on the wound.

My guess is the buying potential for the majority share of Americans is down 10-20% in real terms in 5 years.

 

[JD80]

I blame it on the rising costs of traveling to WDW: higher air fares, higher gas prices, higher hotel room rates, more expensive food, and MUCH higher park admission prices.

Aka everything.

 

[JD80]

I think after 50 years of attempting to do it…the halls of power are finally succeeding

A bill passed in 2017 was designed specifically to crush it. Huge blow if you’re successful without being “rich”.

And this “inflationary period” is just salt on the wound.

My guess is the buying potential for the majority share of Americans is down 10-20% in real terms in 5 years.

Maybe. Inflation outpacing wages by a significant amount plus increased cost above inflation of utilities and consumer goods.

Double whammy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe. Inflation outpacing wages by a significant amount plus increased cost above inflation of utilities and consumer goods.

Double whammy.

And it’s price gouging…you open the door and daddy warbucks is gonna dive through. US treasury fail.

Never forget that the American dollar is the most addictive substance in world history.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

It's probably a lot of things coming together - until now attendance was propped up by revenge travel and people wanting to get their Disney fix, plus people that typically go every 2-3 years were waiting during covid years so all that got lumped together and now this is just an "off year" for many

Combined with many people discovering other things to do with the money they had during covid and just exploring other vacation destinations, add in the increased complexity and costs with a Disney trip and many people just say "forget it, other better/easier things for me to do with my time and money"

Now Disney needs to try to attract people back - seems focus is undoing something of elements recently installed and trying to make things more like what they were pre-pandemic (which still charging more, but at least removing some barriers)

 

[hopemax]

Yup. An increasing number of economists and bankers are coming to believe that inflation is being driven by companies padding profits. The big difference in the last several years is not that corporations are greedier (they’re always greedy) but that global instability (war, pandemic, etc.) has created an environment in which consumers are willing to pay higher prices and blame factors other then corporate greed, giving companies an opportunity to gouge. It’s why we’re not seeing wage inflation the way we’re seeing price inflation. Is this all correct? Who knows. But very smart people are seeing it as increasingly plausible.

Not to mention the “we underestimated the effect of the supply shocks” mea culpas. Consumers seemed to figure it out in real time, thus affecting the willingness to pay more.

It doesn’t feel like the supply issues are solved either. More like it’s changed from Covid-shutdowns affecting production and transport to now it’s insufficient labor in some key places. As well as how bad things are elsewhere affecting the price of the stuff we need to import.

 

[JD80]

It's probably a lot of things coming together - until now attendance was propped up by revenge travel and people wanting to get their Disney fix, plus people that typically go every 2-3 years were waiting during covid years so all that got lumped together and now this is just an "off year" for many

Combined with many people discovering other things to do with the money they had during covid and just exploring other vacation destinations, add in the increased complexity and costs with a Disney trip and many people just say "forget it, other better/easier things for me to do with my time and money"

Now Disney needs to try to attract people back - seems focus is undoing something of elements recently installed and trying to make things more like what they were pre-pandemic (which still charging more, but at least removing some barriers)

Podcast topic: Does WDW remember how to attract guests to their parks and how will they do it in 2024 with EU looming?

 

[GhostHost1000]

Podcast topic: Does WDW remember how to attract guests to their parks and how will they do it in 2024 with EU looming?

The answer to the first question is no. They don’t understand their customer and guest experience(s) planning and doing a parks vacation anymore.

How many of those decisions makers have ever had to make park reservations, dining reservations, genie+ purchases, 7am ILL and LL selections, rope drop sprints, etc etc etc etc etc

 

[erasure fan1]

Because if you believe all of these large monoliths truly had to “pass costs on”; do you really believe they will be lowering prices back to prior levels when inflation finally slows;

Yea it's really a joke. There is SO much profit gouging going on it's not even funny. I see it every week at the company I work for.

It is absolutely INSANE to believe that whoever comes after Iger will be significantly better. He is the result of SYSTEMIC issues.

I have almost zero faith the next ceo is going to be better in any real way. The only chance we see any real philosophy change is if the wheels completely fall off the bus. Record attendance lows, D+ subscriber count falls off a cliff. Then maybe, just maybe, you see a shift.

 

[lentesta]

Is it just some anecdotal accounts on what would be slow days every year? My gut tells me it could be a semi-significant trend/change.

Anybody feel any nervousness on the Mouse’s side?

I've been told that travel agencies are seeing ~20-25% drops in WDW volume. And that's carrying over to Universal Orlando, so it's not just WDW.

I would bet a lot of money that that number is accurate, based on what we're seeing with our site. I'm almost certain it's true.

DCL passenger volume at Port Canaveral is up YOY, so that's a bright spot. And DLR hasn't dropped as much.

For WDW, it's a combination of two things, according to Disney's own internal surveys:

• Young families are priced out
• Some of the "Over 50" demographic is put off by the Disney/DeSantis thing

 

[Trauma]

I just checked and according to google the average annual household income is 71k.

That not enough to survive on let alone go to Disney.

According to google I’m in the top 1%, that really surprised me since I don’t make that much, and I scoff at these prices.

So who the heck is taking these trips ?

 

[larryz]

I just checked and according to google the average annual household income is 71k.

That not enough to survive on let alone go to Disney.

According to google I’m in the top 1%, that really surprised me since I don’t make that much, and I scoff at these prices.

So who the heck is taking these trips ?

I guess that depends on where and how you live.
Live in a fly-over state, and within your means, 71k is very doable.
Try to live on that on the coast in the NE or SW, and you're on food stamps.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Podcast topic: Does WDW remember how to attract guests to their parks and how will they do it in 2024 with EU looming?

Definitely interesting times

I feel like Disney took the hard core fans for granted, figuring they would come no matter what - and they are right to some extent - and focused on attracting new guests / once in a lifetime guests, and maximizing th $ they got from their 1 trip

But now that group is harder to attract/turned off and their bread and butter guests are feeling a bit disenfranchised. Whil never cheap it used to be fairly easy to book/execute a family trip to WDW - and felt like you got good value for your $, and now doesn't feel like it