Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[crazy4disney]

IMO what's backfired on them is having a skip the line system available to everyone since day 1. Now they are trying to get it out of people's heads thats not how they work.

I still rather have at least 3 skip the lines than none bc again. They can remove FP altogether. Lines are going nowhere and yes i watched the Defunctland doc. I also watched social media and other forums say see how FP screwed everything up because lines were short when the parks opened after with limited capacity and people hesitant to travel & failing to factor that in…

 

[pdude81]

I think that's fine. It's when you click and see the proposed time, then click again and get it booked for an entirely different time, that they need to fix. ASAP.

This is the thing I've never had happen to me. I've tried to mess with it quite a bit over 10 days on two trips, but so far if I'm diligent about not button mashing that second screen I always see the terrible return time and have the option to change it. I do believe that it happens to some, but I feel like that has to be more glitch than design.

 

[pdude81]

It is very easy to solve. Cap sales so guests who buy it feel like it's worth it and at the same raise the price to $20 to make up for the loss in revenue.

They also have this unfortunate issue where one park has lots of inventory and the others don't, so capping is not that straightforward... unless they have one price for park hopping G+ and one without.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I believe they simply expected it to work as well as MaxPass without realizing that different parks, different guests and changing key components would have drastic impacts on that system.

If seems to me like the “different guests” element is a big factor. People plan Disney World trips the way they plan a wedding. It’s an iconic, dream destination for so many people, and given the price tag they understandably take it pretty seriously. They are also, often, traveling in large multi generational groups who lack flexibility in terms of being able to renegotiate nap time or walk long distances with arthritis. Disneyland is often a very very different mindset.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

FP+ only worked for us because we knew how to use it G+ has leveled the playing field so that all who are willing to pay to play are equal.

What? G+ is way more complicated than FP+. Go up to a random guest and ask them to explain the interaction of the 2 hour cooldown rule with stacking. Now add in the difference between an ILL$ purchase and G+.

 

[msha88]

I agree. I don't believe it will be limited aggressively enough. If they want this to work, ILL needs to go away because Genie+ desperately needs the inventory. Firework viewing areas should also be added. Fantasmic! needs to return.

This is a solvable problem but they can't get out of their own way. They are doing the bare minimum, one at a time, crossing their fingers that it fixes everything.

They should cap total genie plus to a meaningful number per park per day AND get rid of the individual LL which confuses people and limits usable and desirable inventory. Doubt they will but I think would help.

I get taking away ILL would be a big help with the sticky situation they’re in as it would add desperately needed Genie+ inventory.

But on our December trip, I preferred ILL to Genie+ by a long way because it was simpler and a few minutes after 7 am we knew where we stood; whether we had the ILL or not and what time. Can then plan the rest of the day from there. No being on the phone to refresh every couple of hours after that to try and get another Genie+ booking and being annoyed when we didn’t feel we got value from it. Plus in our experience, the ILL lines were shorter than the Genie+ ones generally but that could just be coincidence.

For our upcoming trip I’m pretty certain I’m not buying Genie+ again but would be tempted with ILLs for Rise, Guardians and FOP. So for me, if they removed ILL completely it would just make me hate Genie+ even more, although I get it would improve our chances of getting a few worthwhile bookings.

 

[msha88]

The problem is $5 won't solve the issue, that's how bad it is. That's why temporary measures are being put in place until the end of the year. It also isn't great PR to raise the price for a product that already has horrible ratings.

Guests' top complaint about WDW (and specifically FP+) was how much research and planning was required on the front end of trips. There was also an apparent industry standard that allowed for a skip the line feature to become a paid offering and not a free one.

Transitioning away from FP+ had nothing to do with Park Pass. They mangled FP+ to get Park Pass operating but that's not why it didn't return. This was being planned prior to COVID-19 closures; if anything, the already made decision to sunset FP+ simply made it easier to implement Park Pass but they certainly didn't sacrifice the FP+ codebase for it.

Needless to say, mistakes were made and they are well aware of that fact.

I don’t doubt that $5 won’t solve the issue, but I’m still struggling to understand why stopping advanced purchases will, although I know you've said this is just one step they’re taking in the interim.

But were there that many people advance purchasing? And is it the case that they’re really going to drastically limit availability and play around with that to find the sweet spot for guest satisfaction / acceptable revenue?

It’s such a complex situation and as much as I’m not a fan of Genie+ in any way, I do find it fascinating, the pickle they’ve got themselves in and how they‘re eventually going to get out of it to whatever degree.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don’t doubt that $5 won’t solve the issue, but I’m still struggling to understand why stopping advanced purchases will, although I know you've said this is just one step they’re taking in the interim.

But were there that many people advance purchasing? And is it the case that they’re really going to drastically limit availability and play around with that to find the sweet spot for guest satisfaction / acceptable revenue?

It’s such a complex situation and as much as I’m not a fan of Genie+ in any way, I do find it fascinating, the pickle they’ve got themselves in and how they‘re eventually going to get out of it to whatever degree.

The problem they are having with Genie+ is that too many people buy it. It's a big reason for it not working that well. The biggest pickle they got themselves in started back in the FP days having people believe short waits are required to enjoy the parks. Here is an example from a poster who did Universal and Disney the same week recently.

"Disney guests were quite cranky compared to Universal guests. We were just down there for a wedding and one of our DISer friends who came as well for the wedding we got to talking and he made it a good point something that we had discussed separately and then both came to the same conclusion. Guests over at Universal sorta get the "stand in line" thing. I mean it's not preferable but you don't throw a fit and act like it's going to ruin your day, the other DISer was like "I think people treat Universal more like other parks where that's what you do, you ride rides but you stand in line as well". Over at Disney they have an awful ratio with their skip line and it does create a negative impact on those waiting in the SB, and that's because they can't even think of making those in a skip line (which predates Genie+) actually wait any measurable time. Even if you had these two systems working together if they went with the mentality of allowing those in the skip line to wait more than they do now they would come away with less complaints, but they created this and they are going to keep feeding into this."

 

[crazy4disney]

The problem they are having with Genie+ is that too many people buy it. It's a big reason for it not working that well. The biggest pickle they got themselves in started back in the FP days having people believe short waits are required to enjoy the parks. Here is an example from a poster who did Universal and Disney the same week recently.

"Disney guests were quite cranky compared to Universal guests. We were just down there for a wedding and one of our DISer friends who came as well for the wedding we got to talking and he made it a good point something that we had discussed separately and then both came to the same conclusion. Guests over at Universal sorta get the "stand in line" thing. I mean it's not preferable but you don't throw a fit and act like it's going to ruin your day, the other DISer was like "I think people treat Universal more like other parks where that's what you do, you ride rides but you stand in line as well". Over at Disney they have an awful ratio with their skip line and it does create a negative impact on those waiting in the SB, and that's because they can't even think of making those in a skip line (which predates Genie+) actually wait any measurable time. Even if you had these two systems working together if they went with the mentality of allowing those in the skip line to wait more than they do now they would come away with less complaints, but they created this and they are going to keep feeding into this."

Do we know if more people use genie than used FP+/ this too me is the biggest baffling headscratcher. I cant see that being possible yet FP never caused the amount of issues genie has

 

[Jrb1979]

Do we know if more people use genie than used FP+/ this too me is the biggest baffling headscratcher. I cant see that being possible yet FP never caused the amount of issues genie has

The problem is unless there is a ride breakdown, they have made it so those who use the LL have a very short wait. With FP+ there were many times you still had a 20 to 30 minute wait.

 

[crazy4disney]

The problem is unless there is a ride breakdown, they have made it so those who use the LL have a very short wait. With FP+ there were many times you still had a 20 to 30 minute wait.

I used genie and have DAS i can assure you that was far from the case during my trip this past November & had nothing to do with ride breakdowns... as a matter of fact there were a couple times we just walked off the line and didnt bother bc we were told waits were gonna be min 30 minutes.

 

[Jrb1979]

I used genie and have DAS i can assure you that was far from the case during my trip this past November & had nothing to do with ride breakdowns... as a matter of fact there were a couple times we just walked off the line and didnt bother bc we were told waits were gonna be min 30 minutes.

Not to be rude or anything but your last sentence is exactly what I was talking about in the difference in Disney guests mindset and Universal guests. Most Universal guests, just like every other park, accept waiting in long lines. Where as Disney guests since FP was created won't accept anything more then a 30 minute wait.

 

[Purduevian]

The problem is unless there is a ride breakdown, they have made it so those who use the LL have a very short wait. With FP+ there were many times you still had a 20 to 30 minute wait.

Please explain this to me. I'm having a tough time comprehending how shorter waits in the FP/LL lane would reduce the inventory of the skip the line.

As long as the same number of people get through LL and FP in the same hour, it shouldn't matter how long the wait is right?

 

[Chi84]

Not to be rude or anything but your last sentence is exactly what I was talking about in the difference in Disney guests mindset and Universal guests. Most Universal guests, just like every other park, accept waiting in long lines. Where as Disney guests since FP was created won't accept anything more then a 30 minute wait.

That may be why a lot of people preferred WDW with FP+ to Universal. There's so much more to do at WDW than standing in line waiting for rides. And Disney appeals more to entire families, with older folks and very young kids who have a more difficult time spending the entire day waiting in long lines and therefore benefit more from line-skip systems. The parks are different in a lot of ways other than the one you mentioned.

 

[Jrb1979]

Please explain this to me. I'm having a tough time comprehending how shorter waits in the FP/LL lane would reduce the inventory of the skip the line.

As long as the same number of people get through LL and FP in the same hour, it shouldn't matter how long the wait is right?

They aren't releasing as many passes as they did before. A lot has to do with that people are paying for it and most likely expect short waits. With FP+ being free people were ok with 30 minute waits for FP.

 

[crazy4disney]

Not to be rude or anything but your last sentence is exactly what I was talking about in the difference in Disney guests mindset and Universal guests. Most Universal guests, just like every other park, accept waiting in long lines. Where as Disney guests since FP was created won't accept anything more then a 30 minute wait.

I would not deny that and dont take it as being rude but honestly if the party im with cant deal with a 30 minute line we will just skip the ride for the time being especially considering they are things we have already done countless times on the trip. I did appreciate the CM honesty tho when entering the line etc but the point im making is. All the years prior i can even remember long FP lines (excluding 7D during down times). Just my experience in November vs prior trip the same time of year….

 

[Jrb1979]

I would not deny that and dont take it as being rude but honestly if the party im with cant deal with a 30 minute line we will just skip the ride for the time being especially considering they are things we have already done countless times on the trip. I did appreciate the CM honesty tho when entering the line etc but the point im making is. All the years prior i can even remember long FP lines (excluding 7D during down times). Just my experience in November vs prior trip the same time of year….

I know when Genie+ was first introduced waits were short. I'm wondering if they added more availability for LL to help with the complaints of not being able to get anything.

The easiest way to fix this is bring back tiers. Make it that you can only book 1 headliner per day. From everything I have heard is most are only using it for the top rides only.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I know when Genie+ was first introduced waits were short. I'm wondering if they added more availability for LL to help with the complaints of not being able to get anything.

The easiest way to fix this is bring back tiers. Make it that you can only book 1 headliner per day. From everything I have heard is most are only using it for the top rides only.

From what I understand, early on not nearly as many people purchased it as they didn't know what it was and didn't want to spend money on something they didn't understand. Inventory was actually good at this time. Shortly thereafter it just became a known "must do."

 

[GhostHost1000]

Hollywood Studios at park opening today
Rise down
Tower down
TS Midway Mania broke down on us during the ride
All are back up now but Indiana Jones 3rd scene isn’t working so they just stop the show after the second.

It’s a magical day with Genie+ at Di$ney

 

[Purduevian]

They aren't releasing as many passes as they did before. A lot has to do with that people are paying for it and most likely expect short waits. With FP+ being free people were ok with 30 minute waits for FP.

Are you saying they changed the ratio of standby to LL as well? I thought the standard was 4 to 1 in both FP and LL... for instance

If there was a ride that had 1000 people per hour. Meaning you want 800 line skippers and 200 standby guests to get in every hour.

To break this down into the time slots (every 5 minutes). Disney would issue 40 skip the line passes every 5 minutes. (10 standby get in every 5 minutes)

The only way to build a 30 minute line from FP+ and have lets say a 5 minute wait from LL would like something like this:

Time (9:00am open)	# of FP distributed [Wait time]	# of LL distributed [Wait time]
9:00am	240 [30 minutes]	80 [5 minutes]
9:05am	40 [30 minutes]	40 [5 minutes]
9:10am	40 [30 minutes]	40 [5 minutes]
9:15am	40 [30 minutes]	40 [5 minutes]
9:20am	40 [30 minutes]	40 [5 minutes]

In this case, FP+ did distribute more passes than LL, but only in the first 5 minutes of the day. Over the course of a 12 hour park day, this would account for 9,800 Fastpass and 9,640LL passes given out. Just doesn't seem significant enough to change how hard it is to get a G+ vs a LL. The wait time seems to have a pretty minimal effect on the amount of passes given out, unless the ratio of G+ to FP+ also changed with it.