Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Jeff4272]

They listened to us morons who said we wanted Maxpass at WDW. They also listened to the people who whined that DLP pass prices were too expensive and we wouldn't pay that much here. Really they should have known better

I never said i wanted MaxPass!

The thing with WDW, the percentage of people in the parks who are resort guests is WAY higher than DL.........


WDW averages 160k guests per day...........36k hotel rooms x 4 guests per room is 144k...........ratio of 90%

DL is averages about 88k per day with little under 1,000 hotel rooms x 4 guests per room is 4,000 = ratios of 5%ish

while the math isnt exact, i think you get the point........(im not saying 90% of people in WDW parks are resort people every day....Im saying that the ratio and percentage is exponentially higher at WDW vs DL)

WDW needs to cater to their audience, the resort people......thats why people liked FP+ over Genie+, it gave the resort people a benefit

 

[Jeff4272]

Len

I'd be interested if you had any special insight into this. DM me if so, please. Thanks!

Len....Do you have any data on guest satisfaction that you can share, whether its firsthand or word of mouth?

I just dont understand why they wouldnt do whatever they need to to fix the problem, even if it means changing it completely (assuming they keep their revenue)

 

[Jrb1979]

Len

Len....Do you have any data on guest satisfaction that you can share, whether its firsthand or word of mouth?

I just dont understand why they wouldnt do whatever they need to to fix the problem, even if it means changing it completely (assuming they keep their revenue)

As @disneyglimpses said they are working on changing it. They can't do much til the end of the year when all the pre-purchased Genie+ is done.

My hope that Disney has learned that they can't offer this to everyone as they don't have to capacity for it to work.

 

[Grumpy4196]

i would rather see them return to free Fastpass and raise the ticket price instead. (they will anyway)

 

[UnPocoLoco]

I used to think it was somewhat a crazy idea to visit WDW and skip the parks. I find that its become more and more commonplace on our trips to schedule resort time and not just when we need the break. I have no problem waiting in line for an hour or more for a good ride, especially if it’s new. I have no problem paying extra for a shorter wait on a ride I want to do. I don’t want to pay extra and still wait in long lines for 40 year old attractions. The last time we went we did genie and still only did half the day at the park. It was confusing, didn’t get us what we were anticipating (was touted as better than FP, after all), and required constant checks on is it time to book yet, what’s open, is it near us or are we walking across the park? It became easier to get ice cream and hang out at the pool and we still had a good time.

 

[Jeff4272]

I used to think it was somewhat a crazy idea to visit WDW and skip the parks. I find that its become more and more commonplace on our trips to schedule resort time and not just when we need the break. I have no problem waiting in line for an hour or more for a good ride, especially if it’s new. I have no problem paying extra for a shorter wait on a ride I want to do. I don’t want to pay extra and still wait in long lines for 40 year old attractions. The last time we went we did genie and still only did half the day at the park. It was confusing, didn’t get us what we were anticipating (was touted as better than FP, after all), and required constant checks on is it time to book yet, what’s open, is it near us or are we walking across the park? It became easier to get ice cream and hang out at the pool and we still had a good time.

Agree......Do a show, hit Disney Springs, take a boat ride, pub crawl on the monorail resorts, play golf, hang at the pool, see the fireworks........

Only thing I would do is hit World Showcase at Epcot and watch harmonious.........We could do a 5 day trip and 2 park days just to hit Epcot at night

 

[pdude81]

I never said i wanted MaxPass!

The thing with WDW, the percentage of people in the parks who are resort guests is WAY higher than DL.........


WDW averages 160k guests per day...........36k hotel rooms x 4 guests per room is 144k...........ratio of 90%

DL is averages about 88k per day with little under 1,000 hotel rooms x 4 guests per room is 4,000 = ratios of 5%ish

while the math isnt exact, i think you get the point........(im not saying 90% of people in WDW parks are resort people every day....Im saying that the ratio and percentage is exponentially higher at WDW vs DL)

WDW needs to cater to their audience, the resort people......thats why people liked FP+ over Genie+, it gave the resort people a benefit

I didn't ask for it either, but the group think on that was so overwhelming I use the "collective" we. I think they could fix this a bit by raising prices, allowing resort guests to purchase and choose one pass the night before from your reserved park, and limiting the number of passes based on the park selected. The limiting is the big piece here, but I think the other improvementes would be better for most guests and certainly the ones like you that don't want to wake up early.

My original idea was to give one free skip (Tier 2) per resort guest, and let everything else be a la carte. I kind of prefer the subscription model at this point if they can figure out how to swap passes instead of the cancel and rebook method.

 

[Jeff4272]

I didn't ask for it either, but the group think on that was so overwhelming I use the "collective" we. I think they could fix this a bit by raising prices, allowing resort guests to purchase and choose one pass the night before from your reserved park, and limiting the number of passes based on the park selected. The limiting is the big piece here, but I think the other improvementes would be better for most guests and certainly the ones like you that don't want to wake up early.

My original idea was to give one free skip (Tier 2) per resort guest, and let everything else be a la carte. I kind of prefer the subscription model at this point if they can figure out how to swap passes instead of the cancel and rebook method.

I know you didn't (was tongue in cheek)............I think where WDW went wrong is they "overcorrected" for the planning aspect that people complained about.........Went from one extreme to the other by not allowing any advanced reservations. There has to be a happy medium OR an "anytime return" pass so you feel comfortable knowing what you are going to get as you're paying all of that money.

There are many problems with Genie+, not just waking up early.............Here's the email i sent ot guest services

1. The entire Genie+ system is confusing and requires a TON of research and work to make it even marginally effective
2. Not being able to pre book is a big problem for our family. We stay in deluxe hotels and not knowing if we can get on the headliners in advance without waiting 90+ minutes if we are paying $15,000 for a vacation is a deal breaker for us.
3. 7am day of booking is a very bad experience. We typically sleep in, go to pool, have lunch in hotel/pool and then to the parks from 2-3pm until closing. 7am wake up virtually eliminates the entire reason we go to WDW.
4. Not being able to choose return times is a major problem too. As I mentioned above, we usually do not go to the parks until later in the day. Genie+ makes that strategy impossible. Overlaps with other plans, park hopping, dining reservations and overall lack of flexibility is a major drawback.
5. By not allowing pre booking, it requires much more time on my phone which makes our trip a lot more stressful.
6. Not being able to “lock in” a selected time when booking a ride is very stressful.
7. Not being able to amend a reservation without losing my previous one is very stressful.
8. Being forced to accept "next available" time creates an ineffective park strategy requiring you to criss cross the parks

I hope you simplify this system. It was exhausting, stressful and an overall bad experience our last trip and makes us not want to return

 

[lentesta]

Len

Len....Do you have any data on guest satisfaction that you can share, whether its firsthand or word of mouth?

I just dont understand why they wouldnt do whatever they need to to fix the problem, even if it means changing it completely (assuming they keep their revenue)

i don't think we have anything around overall satisfaction. I know from sources that Genie (the itinerary app) numbers are terrible, as are Genie+ numbers. With Genie, it's functionality. With Genie+, it's some variation of the poor implementation and the "nickle and dime" philosophy.

Money is the reason why they don't fix the problem. Revenue is up, and that is by far the primary metric they're concerned with. If it's going to cost $25 million (or whatever) to fix the Genie+ software and take your dev team a year away from doing anything else, and it's not going to increase revenue, they're not going to do it. They'd rather use the money to build a restaurant, bar, or food kiosks, because those generate revenue. Or buy back shares, which increases the stock price.

I mean, the park reservation system is absolutely useless for guests for around 360 of the 365 days in a year. And we know that there are days when Disney artifically closes off one park's reservations, far below the park's available capacity, just to direct people to the other parks for balance. So not only is the reservation system a no-benefit burden to guests, but it's actually used to force guests away from their first-choice park, even when that first choice should be an option.

You might be thinking "But the visitors who spend that money today and leave dissatisfied, won't be back in five years." And that's absolutely not the concern of today's management.

 

[Jeff4272]

i don't think we have anything around overall satisfaction. I know from sources that Genie (the itinerary app) numbers are terrible, as are Genie+ numbers. With Genie, it's functionality. With Genie+, it's some variation of the poor implementation and the "nickle and dime" philosophy.

Money is the reason why they don't fix the problem. Revenue is up, and that is by far the primary metric they're concerned with. If it's going to cost $25 million (or whatever) to fix the Genie+ software and take your dev team a year away from doing anything else, and it's not going to increase revenue, they're not going to do it. They'd rather use the money to build a restaurant, bar, or food kiosks, because those generate revenue. Or buy back shares, which increases the stock price.

I mean, the park reservation system is absolutely useless for guests for around 360 of the 365 days in a year. And we know that there are days when Disney artifically closes off one park's reservations, far below the park's available capacity, just to direct people to the other parks for balance. So not only is the reservation system a no-benefit burden to guests, but it's actually used to force guests away from their first-choice park, even when that first choice should be an option.

You might be thinking "But the visitors who spend that money today and leave dissatisfied, won't be back in five years." And that's absolutely not the concern of today's management.

I think people would pay for the cost associated to fix it........So if it costs $25mm, increase fees so it makes $50mm to make up for the cost and fix it right

Bummer.......

We will be going other places (which is not what we want)

 

[Disney Glimpses]

If Genie+ is sold out by noon everyday, I would be pleasantly surprised. Unfortunately, my gut tells me the greed in them will only allow them to use it under extenuating circumstances. We’ll see.

 

[DisneyfanMA]

The problem they are having with Genie+ is that too many people buy it. It's a big reason for it not working that well. The biggest pickle they got themselves in started back in the FP days having people believe short waits are required to enjoy the parks. Here is an example from a poster who did Universal and Disney the same week recently.

"Disney guests were quite cranky compared to Universal guests. We were just down there for a wedding and one of our DISer friends who came as well for the wedding we got to talking and he made it a good point something that we had discussed separately and then both came to the same conclusion. Guests over at Universal sorta get the "stand in line" thing. I mean it's not preferable but you don't throw a fit and act like it's going to ruin your day, the other DISer was like "I think people treat Universal more like other parks where that's what you do, you ride rides but you stand in line as well". Over at Disney they have an awful ratio with their skip line and it does create a negative impact on those waiting in the SB, and that's because they can't even think of making those in a skip line (which predates Genie+) actually wait any measurable time. Even if you had these two systems working together if they went with the mentality of allowing those in the skip line to wait more than they do now they would come away with less complaints, but they created this and they are going to keep feeding into this."

I get where this is coming from. That said is US vs DIS parks a apples to apples comparison? My uninformed gut feeling here is that US has a few MORE rides per park AND has less people visiting on average. Is that true? So the lines are there, but probably aren't as bad?

Wishful thinking and unlikely to occur any time soon, I know....But IMO Disney needs to drop ILL (permanently making all rides Genie +) and add just a few (2-3) more RIDES at each park!!! They have the deepest pockets. If there was more inventory in the Genie plus system it would solve everything. Epcot would benefit significantly from even 1 or 2 more rides in the countries. I see an area between China and Germany with what looks like storage of equipment? If they added a country there with some dark ride -even a small one with decent throughput (Brazil with amazon jungle boat ride?). IS it still rumored that Mary Poppins could be some sort of ride or interactive entertainment in UK pavilion? Both would go a long way if made Genie+ bookings......HS definitely needs a few more RIDES. MK once Tron comes on is in pretty good shape. AK could probably use 1 or 2 more. Again I know this is NOT going to happen. But if I could wave a magic wand, that's what I would do.

 

[Jrb1979]

If Genie+ is sold out by noon everyday, I would be pleasantly surprised. Unfortunately, my gut tells me the greed in them will only allow them to use it under extenuating circumstances. We’ll see.

That would be unfortunate. I know you say they do care about guest satisfaction. I do believe they do but at the same time they don't seem to get it. I know they are the highest attended park in the US but that shouldn't make much of a difference in how to run a park. Universal is right up there in attendance and they seen to do things well in day to day operations.

 

[Jrb1979]

I get where this is coming from. That said is US vs DIS parks a apples to apples comparison? My uninformed gut feeling here is that US has a few MORE rides per park AND has less people visiting on average. Is that true? So the lines are there, but probably aren't as bad?

Wishful thinking and unlikely to occur any time soon, I know....But IMO Disney needs to drop ILL (permanently making all rides Genie +) and add just a few (2-3) more RIDES at each park!!! They have the deepest pockets. If there was more inventory in the Genie plus system it would solve everything. Epcot would benefit significantly from even 1 or 2 more rides in the countries. I see an area between China and Germany with what looks like storage of equipment? If they added a country there with some dark ride -even a small one with decent throughput (Brazil with amazon jungle boat ride?). IS it still rumored that Mary Poppins could be some sort of ride or interactive entertainment in UK pavilion? Both would go a long way if made Genie+ bookings......HS definitely needs a few more RIDES. MK once Tron comes on is in pretty good shape. AK could probably use 1 or 2 more. Again I know this is NOT going to happen. But if I could wave a magic wand, that's what I would do.

No they aren't the same. I will give you an example in regards to guests accepting having to wait in line. When Hagrids first opened the wait was 10 hours and I don't remember many complaints about the wait. This is just my opinion but had Guardians opened and instead of a virtual queue was a free for all it would easily have a multitude hour wait. I bet here would have been complaints galore for having to wait to ride.

 

[DisneyfanMA]

I will never in my life understand people queing up for 10-12 hours, or even 4 or more hours to ride a single <5 minute ride (Hagrids). Must have been mostly locals. I guess its like the people who camp overnight at Walmart for a $2 toaster on black friday.

Closest I came to this was waiting ~6 hours for NE Patriots opening day tix (unveiling their 4th banner). Ended up at the 50 yard line at least (they lost the opener later that night). But I remember my body was pretty exhausted from standing and sitting in the same rope line for 6 hours. Didn't help that we didn't move much. Just waited all that time for the box window to open.

I'm happy to hopefully ride Hagrids now a couple years post opening, and probably wait an hour at most, and maybe less with the express pass.

 

[pdude81]

I will never in my life understand people queing up for 10-12 hours, or even 4 or more hours to ride a single <5 minute ride (Hagrids). Must have been mostly locals. I guess its like the people who camp overnight at Walmart for a $2 toaster on black friday.

I'm happy to hopefully ride Hagrids now a couple years post opening, and probably wait an hour at most, and maybe less with the express pass.

If they ever give it express pass. Hopefully at some point they do.

 

[DisneyfanMA]

touché. I plead ignorance it was not express pass. Just checked the map now in the US app. Says 75 min wait.

 

[pdude81]

touché. I plead ignorance it was not express pass. Just checked the map now in the US app. Says 75 min wait.

75 isn't terrible. It's a very good ride.

 

[DisneyfanMA]

75 isn't terrible. It's a very good ride.

Certainly better than the following at HS right now:

HTT: 115 min
SDD: 100 min
SW SR: 95 min
SW RR: 95 min

-------------------
MM RR: 75 min
RR Coaster: 70 min


WOOF!

 

[mikejs78]

Certainly better than the following at HS right now:

HTT: 115 min
SDD: 100 min
SW SR: 95 min
SW RR: 95 min

-------------------
MM RR: 75 min
RR Coaster: 70 min


WOOF!

Keep in mind that those are probably inflated. Touring Plans estimates the actual wait for those attractions currently are:

TT: 83 minutes
SDD: 77 minutes
MFSR: 63 minutes
RotR: 76 minutes
MMRR: 57 minutes
RnRC: 53 minutes