Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

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Purduevian

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
They aren't releasing as many passes as they did before. A lot has to do with that people are paying for it and most likely expect short waits. With FP+ being free people were ok with 30 minute waits for FP.
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Are you saying they changed the ratio of standby to LL as well? I thought the standard was 4 to 1 in both FP and LL... for instance

If there was a ride that had 1000 people per hour. Meaning you want 800 line skippers and 200 standby guests to get in every hour.

To break this down into the time slots (every 5 minutes). Disney would issue 40 skip the line passes every 5 minutes. (10 standby get in every 5 minutes)

The only way to build a 30 minute line from FP+ and have lets say a 5 minute wait from LL would like something like this:
Time (9:00am open)# of FP distributed [Wait time]# of LL distributed [Wait time]
9:00am240 [30 minutes]80 [5 minutes]
9:05am40 [30 minutes]40 [5 minutes]
9:10am40 [30 minutes]40 [5 minutes]
9:15am40 [30 minutes]40 [5 minutes]
9:20am40 [30 minutes]40 [5 minutes]

In this case, FP+ did distribute more passes than LL, but only in the first 5 minutes of the day. Over the course of a 12 hour park day, this would account for 9,800 Fastpass and 9,640LL passes given out. Just doesn't seem significant enough to change how hard it is to get a G+ vs a LL. The wait time seems to have a pretty minimal effect on the amount of passes given out, unless the ratio of G+ to FP+ also changed with it.
 
pdude81

pdude81

Well-Known Member
Purduevian said:
Are you saying they changed the ratio of standby to LL as well? I thought the standard was 4 to 1 in both FP and LL... for instance

If there was a ride that had 1000 people per hour. Meaning you want 800 line skippers and 200 standby guests to get in every hour.

To break this down into the time slots (every 5 minutes). Disney would issue 40 skip the line passes every 5 minutes. (10 standby get in every 5 minutes)

The only way to build a 30 minute line from FP+ and have lets say a 5 minute wait from LL would like something like this:
Time (9:00am open)# of FP distributed [Wait time]# of LL distributed [Wait time]
9:00am240 [30 minutes]80 [5 minutes]
9:05am40 [30 minutes]40 [5 minutes]
9:10am40 [30 minutes]40 [5 minutes]
9:15am40 [30 minutes]40 [5 minutes]
9:20am40 [30 minutes]40 [5 minutes]

In this case, FP+ did distribute more passes than LL, but only in the first 5 minutes of the day. Over the course of a 12 hour park day, this would account for 9,800 Fastpass and 9,640LL passes given out. Just doesn't seem significant enough to change how hard it is to get a G+ vs a LL. The wait time seems to have a pretty minimal effect on the amount of passes given out, unless the ratio of G+ to FP+ also changed with it.
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I thought someone had commented much earlier in the thread that the LL to standby ratio is much higher than it used to be, but there are less skips overall. Hard to find anything in this sea of verbiage but perhaps someone else might know who discussed the ratios.

Plus we know that LL/FP usage is very low in the first half hour of park opening as people try to hit other rides before using their first pass if they could even get one for 9am.

Also you have a math mistake there as if there were 800 skips per hour you'd have 66 and 2/3 skips every 5 minutes. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your approach as I think the number of people in each line is fluid and it's hard to think linearly about it, but you'd have the LL queue emptied by 9:10 if you used the higher number. I assume the rest of your example would still line up the same just with higher skip numbers.
 
D

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
The problem they are having with Genie+ is that too many people buy it. It's a big reason for it not working that well. The biggest pickle they got themselves in started back in the FP days having people believe short waits are required to enjoy the parks. Here is an example from a poster who did Universal and Disney the same week recently.

"Disney guests were quite cranky compared to Universal guests. We were just down there for a wedding and one of our DISer friends who came as well for the wedding we got to talking and he made it a good point something that we had discussed separately and then both came to the same conclusion. Guests over at Universal sorta get the "stand in line" thing. I mean it's not preferable but you don't throw a fit and act like it's going to ruin your day, the other DISer was like "I think people treat Universal more like other parks where that's what you do, you ride rides but you stand in line as well". Over at Disney they have an awful ratio with their skip line and it does create a negative impact on those waiting in the SB, and that's because they can't even think of making those in a skip line (which predates Genie+) actually wait any measurable time. Even if you had these two systems working together if they went with the mentality of allowing those in the skip line to wait more than they do now they would come away with less complaints, but they created this and they are going to keep feeding into this."
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I don't know that this is a bad thing. People have different expectations for different places. You don't complain about lack of air conditioning when camping, but you would complain if the air conditioner in your room was on the fritz during a stay at a hotel. Some places you expect tranquility, at others, a party; some places you expect independence to do your own thing, at others, top notch service by others who will take care of your needs, and so on.

I think the question is whether line skip services add value to Disney that makes it worth it for them to implement. For me, yes, but I have a toddler and the only rides I will go on are LL rides. For those who don't want to have standby interrupted with LL riders coming in, maybe not so much. Overall, though, I assume they add some kind of value from Disney's perspective (in terms of attracting guests) or else they wouldn't bother with them.
 
Jeff4272

Jeff4272

Well-Known Member
G00fyDad said:
I get your point but 20%. Where did that number come from on AllEars?


And don't get me wrong, I dislike this G$ garbage as much as the next person. My point is that he has this blinding rage for the program that causes him to just wildly make crap up and if you do not feel EXACTLY the same as he does then he calls you names and loses his mind on you.
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lol....you're 100% right, but the 20% number is a real number............
 
Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
DisneyHead123 said:
I don't know that this is a bad thing. People have different expectations for different places. You don't complain about lack of air conditioning when camping, but you would complain if the air conditioner in your room was on the fritz during a stay at a hotel. Some places you expect tranquility, at others, a party; some places you expect independence to do your own thing, at others, top notch service by others who will take care of your needs, and so on.

I think the question is whether line skip services add value to Disney that makes it worth it for them to implement. For me, yes, but I have a toddler and the only rides I will go on are LL rides. For those who don't want to have standby interrupted with LL riders coming in, maybe not so much. Overall, though, I assume they add some kind of value from Disney's perspective (in terms of attracting guests) or else they wouldn't bother with them.
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I'm not suggesting they get rid of skip the line passes at all. I agree they have lots of value and IMO they have even more value the less people have it.
 
Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
DisneyfanMA said:
Individual LL purchases (excempt from Genie + unless noted by *)
  • Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
  • Space Mountain*
  • Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind
  • Frozen Ever After*
  • Mickey & Minnie's Runaway Railway*
  • Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance
  • Avatar Flight of Passage
  • Expedition Everest – Legend of the Forbidden Mountain*
*not considered individual LL between Feb 25-Aug 7 2022


Do you guys expect them to extend the inclusion of SM, Frozen, MM Railway, and EE in with regular Genie+ to the fall/rest of 2022? Hoping this continues for my early Nov visit.
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Starting June 8th, Genie + will only be available to purchase on the day of your visit.

I think they are doing this so they can limit the number of Genie + given out per day.

I can see it now.

Let's say you can purchase yout Genie + or Individual lighting lanes for the day at 7AM.

By 7:03AM, all Genie + and Individual lighting lanes are gone.
 
Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
Starting June 8th, Genie + will only be available to purchase on the day of your visit.

I think they are doing this so they can limit the number of Genie + given out per day.

I can see it now.

Let's say you can purchase yout Genie + or Individual lighting lanes for the day at 7AM.

By 7:03AM, all Genie + and Individual lighting lanes are gone.
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I don't think they will go that quickly. I can see by noon it not being available to buy.
 
Jeff4272

Jeff4272

Well-Known Member
disneyglimpses said:
I believe they simply expected it to work as well as MaxPass without realizing that different parks, different guests and changing key components would have drastic impacts on that system.
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BUt this is MAJOR problem......They are the experts....how did they not know that WDW and DL are completely different animals and what works for one doesn't mean it would work for the other?

Paris, HK, DL, WDW, all had different strategies, because they were all different parks

Why did they not see that?
 
pdude81

pdude81

Well-Known Member
Jeff4272 said:
BUt this is MAJOR problem......They are the experts....how did they not know that WDW and DL are completely different animals and what works for one doesn't mean it would work for the other?

Paris, HK, DL, WDW, all had different strategies, because they were all different parks

Why did they not see that?
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They listened to us morons who said we wanted Maxpass at WDW. They also listened to the people who whined that DLP pass prices were too expensive and we wouldn't pay that much here. Really they should have known better
 

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