Disneyland passholder lawsuit alleges Magic Key deceptively advertises no blockout dates - OCR

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
It never promised equal availability either.

And APs would have a hard time arguing they should assume all admission forms are equal -- given APs love to tell Disney how they are different and need special everything :)


Tell that to all the Dream Key vloggers that also don’t seem to understand how things work. They think they should have bigger pools of reservations on days when the other passes are valid.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
It was never stated pass owners had different availability than day guests.

The terms just said subject to availability. In their case the parks had plenty of availability, yet they couldn't use their pass.

That being said, I hope she wins, but I know lawsuits only work out for those who can continually pay legal fees to keep things going.

I don’t care about the money, we just want to be able to visit again. We’ve had APs for a decade and loved that we could just go whenever we wanted, that’s gone and likely never coming back.

I live out of state which means I can only do weekend trips, as of right now I can’t get a weekend reservation in March, there’s only 2 available in April (which conflict with other commitments), and there’s only 1 available the end of May. My $1400 pass is absolutely worthless for the next 3 months. We’ve been debating whether we’ll renew next year and now it’s an absolute no. Unless you are a local, or can travel midweek, the new reservation system has made passes absolutely worthless.

DL was our happy place but it won’t be anymore. We’ll take a trip or 2 to DL paying day prices, a trip or 2 to WDW, maybe even take a cruise, but the other 7-8 months a year our vacation money will now be going to non Disney places.

Not sure how that’s good for Disney but well done Chapek, you’ve got your wish, we’ll pay higher prices the couple days we go and you’ll lose ten times that amount from the lost days we don’t go.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
I don’t care about the money, we just want to be able to visit again. We’ve had APs for a decade and loved that we could just go whenever we wanted, that’s gone and likely never coming back.

I live out of state which means I can only do weekend trips, as of right now I can’t get a weekend reservation in March, there’s only 2 available in April (which conflict with other commitments), and there’s only 1 available the end of May. My $1400 pass is absolutely worthless for the next 3 months. We’ve been debating whether we’ll renew next year and now it’s an absolute no. Unless you are a local, or can travel midweek, the new reservation system has made passes absolutely worthless.

DL was our happy place but it won’t be anymore. We’ll take a trip or 2 to DL paying day prices, a trip or 2 to WDW, maybe even take a cruise, but the other 7-8 months a year our vacation money will now be going to non Disney places.

Not sure how that’s good for Disney but well done Chapek, you’ve got your wish, we’ll pay higher prices the couple days we go and you’ll lose ten times that amount from the lost days we don’t go.

You can still visit the parks 10 or so times for less than $1400 by just buying day tickets. No blackout dates to worry about. Its a realization I came to a few years back where I realized it made more financial sense to just buy day tickets than to get the highest pass so I could go weekends. For people with alternative work/school schedules going midweek, a cheap pass is worth it. For someone like me who works Mon-Fri, I need to go high end or nothing and I'm too busy to visit enough times to make the high end worth it. Especially since they neutered DCA these past few years.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
You can still visit the parks 10 or so times for less than $1400 by just buying day tickets. No blackout dates to worry about. Its a realization I came to a few years back where I realized it made more financial sense to just buy day tickets than to get the highest pass so I could go weekends. For people with alternative work/school schedules going midweek, a cheap pass is worth it. For someone like me who works Mon-Fri, I need to go high end or nothing and I'm too busy to visit enough times to make the high end worth it. Especially since they neutered DCA these past few years.

Our problem is it doesn’t make sense to pay for full price tickets for the partial days but without the partial days it doesn’t make sense to go.

We usually get there around 1-2 on Friday and leave around 2-3 on Sunday. With a pass the partial days were no problem but I’m struggling to see the value in paying full price for half days. So our 3 days in the parks likely becomes 1 day in the parks with travel days spent elsewhere, or we drive up after work Thursday and add another night of hotel costs so we can get a full day Friday also, either way it just makes the whole trip harder to justify. 8-9 hours of round trip travel isn’t bad for 1 full day and 2 partial days in the parks, it’s a lot of travel time for only 1 full day in the park though.

We’ll adapt, I’m just not happy about it.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Our problem is it doesn’t make sense to pay for full price tickets for the partial days but without the partial days it doesn’t make sense to go.

We usually get there around 1-2 on Friday and leave around 2-3 on Sunday. With a pass the partial days were no problem but I’m struggling to see the value in paying full price for half days. So our 3 days in the parks likely becomes 1 day in the parks with travel days spent elsewhere, or we drive up after work Thursday and add another night of hotel costs so we can get a full day Friday also, either way it just makes the whole trip harder to justify. 8-9 hours of round trip travel isn’t bad for 1 full day and 2 partial days in the parks, it’s a lot of travel time for only 1 full day in the park though.

We’ll adapt, I’m just not happy about it.
Get a 3 day pass. You save on the daily rate while still not wasting money on a pass that goes unused.
 

chadwpalm

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Our problem is it doesn’t make sense to pay for full price tickets for the partial days but without the partial days it doesn’t make sense to go.

We usually get there around 1-2 on Friday and leave around 2-3 on Sunday. With a pass the partial days were no problem but I’m struggling to see the value in paying full price for half days. So our 3 days in the parks likely becomes 1 day in the parks with travel days spent elsewhere, or we drive up after work Thursday and add another night of hotel costs so we can get a full day Friday also, either way it just makes the whole trip harder to justify. 8-9 hours of round trip travel isn’t bad for 1 full day and 2 partial days in the parks, it’s a lot of travel time for only 1 full day in the park though.

We’ll adapt, I’m just not happy about it.
I've made a handful of 7 hours each way trips just to be at the park for one day, but it is definitely not something I'd want to do all the time. I totally get the partial day thing though. I've never known what that's like because I always buy full price tickets. So 1 day would mean 2 nights, 2 days would mean 3 nights, etc.

Now I try to fly from San Jose to John Wayne if I can find good deals. I still stay the same amount of nights, but the traveling is easier.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
I don’t care about the money, we just want to be able to visit again. We’ve had APs for a decade and loved that we could just go whenever we wanted, that’s gone and likely never coming back.

I live out of state which means I can only do weekend trips, as of right now I can’t get a weekend reservation in March, there’s only 2 available in April (which conflict with other commitments), and there’s only 1 available the end of May. My $1400 pass is absolutely worthless for the next 3 months. We’ve been debating whether we’ll renew next year and now it’s an absolute no. Unless you are a local, or can travel midweek, the new reservation system has made passes absolutely worthless.

DL was our happy place but it won’t be anymore. We’ll take a trip or 2 to DL paying day prices, a trip or 2 to WDW, maybe even take a cruise, but the other 7-8 months a year our vacation money will now be going to non Disney places.

Not sure how that’s good for Disney but well done Chapek, you’ve got your wish, we’ll pay higher prices the couple days we go and you’ll lose ten times that amount from the lost days we don’t go.
I feel the same about this. To me the point of having a pass was being able to show up when I had a free day. My friends and wife also agree with this and none of us bought "keys" due to the reservation system.

I can't tell you what my plans are two months from now, I'm not gonna pay 1000 dollars to have to tip toe and scope out each time I go to the park.
 

Sailor310

Well-Known Member
Two friends and I bought passes. We check Touring Plans a month out and pick the lowest crowd day for a place holder.
Last week someone got a wild hair to go, so we got reservations when they opened up the night before. It's not ideal, but it's workable for us. Two of us are retired, the third is self-employed so our schedules are flexible.
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
"A federal judge has allowed a Disneyland passholder lawsuit to move forward that claims the Anaheim theme park misled and deceived its most loyal fans by artificially limiting capacity and restricting reservations, according to court documents.

The complaint filed by Disneyland Magic Key annual passholder Jenale Nielsen of Santa Clara County has been working its way through the court process since November 2021.

Disney sought to have the case dismissed in early March and a Central District of California judge issued a ruling in early April dismissing four of Nielsen’s six allegations in the suit but allowing the other two to move forward. Disney lawyers answered the complaint in late April and Nielsen’s attorneys filed an amended complaint on May 10.

Disney denies each and every allegation and assertion in the complaint, according to the company’s response to the court filing.

Disneyland has been clear about the terms of the Magic Key product and continues to vigorously defend its position as the case proceeds, according to Disneyland officials.

The lawsuit alleges that Nielsen purchased a $1,399 Disneyland Dream Key annual pass with no blockout dates in September 2021, but was unable to make theme park reservations for certain dates in November 2021.

Nielsen’s attorneys are seeking to have the case certified as a class action by the U.S. District Court — a step that has not yet happened.

The $5 million suit filed against Walt Disney Parks and Resorts on behalf of all Magic Key annual passholders alleges Disneyland relegated them to “second class” ticket holders by artificially limiting Magic Key reservations and the number of passholders that can visit on any given day.

United States District Court Judge David Carter denied Disney’s motion to dismiss the Magic Key annual passholder case as it relates to breach of contract and the California consumer protection act. Carter granted Disney’s dismissal motions relating to claims of false advertising, negligent misrepresentation, legal disclosure and unfair competition.

“The court finds that plaintiff has adequately pled facts supporting how a reasonable consumer may be deceived by the advertisement, which states ‘no blockout dates.’” Carter wrote in his ruling. “Plaintiff argues that ordinary consumers generally understand blockout dates to be ‘dates when tickets, credits, passes or rewards cannot be used.’”

The California consumer protections portion of the case will likely hinge upon whether a Disneyland Dream Key annual pass constitutes a good or service as Nielsen’s lawyers contend or a temporary license as Disney contends. Another key contention: The meaning of “blockout dates” and what that definition includes and excludes for passholders and Disneyland.

“Plaintiff alleges that the term ‘no blockout dates’ is not defined in the advertisement but that she understood the term to mean that Dream Key Pass holders would not be blocked from making theme park reservations ‘whenever Disney was offering park reservations for entrance to the theme parks,’” according to the complaint. “She also understood the advertisement’s statement that ‘park reservations are subject to availability and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park’ to mean that ‘if park reservations were available and being offered to the public, Dream Key holders could use their passes to make reservations for entry to the parks.’”

In answering the complaint, Disney admits the phrase “blockout date” is not defined, but denies the phrase “no blockout dates” can be reasonably understood to mean Dream Key passholders can make reservations whenever Disneyland or Disney California Adventure offer theme park reservations.

In addition, Disney admits it promised there would be no blockout dates for Dream Key pass holders, but denies Disneyland blocked out dates to Dream Key pass holders.

Disney has taken the position that Disneyland has the power to artificially limit theme park reservations and decide when to make Dream Key passholder reservations available or unavailable, according to the response from Nielsen’s attorneys."

“Disney appears to be limiting the number of reservations available to Dream Key pass holders on any given day in order to maximize the number of single day and other passes that Disney can sell,” according to the response from Nielsen’s attorneys. “This practice directly contradicts Disney’s advertised promise that the Dream Key would not be subject to blockout dates.”

 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
From an outsider Disney created this problem. They obviously didn't price passes high enough to price more people out. I thought when they cancelled all the APs it was cause they had too many AP holders. From the sounds of it they never solved that problem. They really needed to price people out. They failed to do it.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
From an outsider Disney created this problem. They obviously didn't price passes high enough to price more people out. I thought when they cancelled all the APs it was cause they had too many AP holders. From the sounds of it they never solved that problem. They really needed to price people out. They failed to do it.

This. Disney could have easily controlled the crowds by raising prices higher, than trying to change the market with blockout dates/reservations/ticketing tiers.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
This. Disney could have easily controlled the crowds by raising prices higher, than trying to change the market with blockout dates/reservations/ticketing tiers.

A jaded person may call this outright fraud.

If you can only accommodate 100,000 passes you really only have 2 choices, sell 100,000 passes at $2500 or sell 500,000 passes at $1500 and then deny people the ability to use what they paid for… if you have no ethics and don’t care about customer satisfaction it’s an easy choice, if you care about customer satisfaction it’s also an easy choice... Disney’s choice makes it crystal clear they are no longer concerned with customer satisfaction.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
A jaded person may call this outright fraud.

If you can only accommodate 100,000 passes you really only have 2 choices, sell 100,000 passes at $2500 or sell 500,000 passes at $1500 and then deny people the ability to use what they paid for…
No one sells annual passes as dedicated capacity. that’s not reality.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
This. Disney could have easily controlled the crowds by raising prices higher, than trying to change the market with blockout dates/reservations/ticketing tiers.
Yes, IF the reason for park pass reservations was to control the crowds.

THE REASON FOR THE PARK PASS RESERVATION IS TO KEEP STAFFING TO THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM TO SAVE COSTS!

Also, Disney does not want annual pass holders to be in the parks, they want them to pay for the passes but stay out of the parks.

Disney only want folks who will spend the maximum $$ in the parks.

The park pass reservation system has nothing to do with improving the guest experience.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
A jaded person may call this outright fraud.

If you can only accommodate 100,000 passes you really only have 2 choices, sell 100,000 passes at $2500 or sell 500,000 passes at $1500 and then deny people the ability to use what they paid for… if you have no ethics and don’t care about customer satisfaction it’s an easy choice, if you care about customer satisfaction it’s also an easy choice... Disney’s choice makes it crystal clear they are no longer concerned with customer satisfaction.
Its a no win situation for Disney.

If they limit the amount of passes sold there are complaints that passes aren't available. If they raise the prices to control the amount of passes sold there are complaints that guests are being priced out. If they open up sales of passes there are complaints of too many passes being sold. If they add reservations there are complaints that passes can't get the days they want because the reservation might be gone. If they take away reservations there are complaints that there is no restrictions on the amount of passes allowed in the park which causes overcrowding. If they do away with the passes all together there are complaints that there are no options for frequent guests.

Basically no matter what there is going to be a complaint by some group over any decision that Disney makes. They are damned it they do, damned if they don't.
 

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