News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Lilofan]

If I park at Disney Springs. Can I take a bus directly to the Magic Kingdom and avoid the parking fee? Asking for a friend.

Take a bus to Contemporary, hop on the monorail is an option.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

There absolutely are legitimate questions to ask about the District. I would recommend anyone who is genuinely interested in how the District has benefited Disney read Married to the Mouse by Richard Foglesong. I found it very telling that an article posted yesterday gave the impression that even he is leery of what is happening.

The famous "EPCOT Building Codes" held by the RCID are more stringent than the International Building Codes (though not as big of a difference after the IBC was adopted near universally). This is important, not necessarily because Disney couldn't build to that standard if the RCID went away, but because Disney devised these codes so they could have an easy reference on how to build stuff when in initial design/engineering. It is much easier to have a standard workflow around standards you know rather than now having to deal with County inspectors who aren't as integrated or knowledgeable of your process.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Has anyone actually seen a non partisan pros and cons breakdown?

I’ve read articles saying this will harm the state because $2 billion in Disney debt will instantly become Florida debt, I’ve also read articles saying this will harm Disney because they’ll pay upwards of $500 million more a year in taxes to the state.

I can’t find an unbiased article that has looked at everything and broken down if this will be beneficial/damaging to Florida, beneficial/damaging to Disney, or beneficial/damaging to both.

This is going to harm WDW, visitors to WDW, the state and mostly the taxpayers stuck with the bill.
There is nothing good that will come from this.
The Governor only did this as a jab back to Disney for voicing opposition to a new law.
In the end, the new law will be overturned, RCID will still be gone, the taxpayer will still be stuck with bill.

But who cares, WDW will still be MOBBED

Disney wins again!

 

[JohnD]

The Florida House convenes in full session this morning at 10:00am to consider all bills in the special session -- special districts, social media, and Congressional Districts.

There will be a live stream. Should be an interesting debate.

Relevant Bill Texts:

• 4C: Special Districts
• 6C: Social Media Platforms

 

[Disstevefan1]

No, I think the county budget will be impacted and thus there will be some impact to residents. How much so is entirely up to the counties. However the notion that people will suddenly be paying thousands more is absurd and a misapplication of the facts.

Not sure who said folks will pay thousands but it was not me, but its still not fair to the taxpayers to pay for a fight between the governor and TWDC. The worst part is, the law that started the fight will be overturned, RCID will still be gone, and the taxpayer will be stuck with the bill for no reason.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The famous "EPCOT Building Codes" held by the RCID are more stringent than the International Building Codes (though not as big of a difference after the IBC was adopted near universally). This is important, not necessarily because Disney couldn't build to that standard if the RCID went away, but because Disney devised these codes so they could have an easy reference on how to build stuff when in initial design/engineering. It is much easier to have a standard workflow around standards you know rather than now having to deal with County inspectors who aren't as integrated or knowledgeable of your process.

The EPCOT Building Code was created at a time when there was no Florida Building Code. It’s an example of how the District created more regulations, not removed them.

With the adoption of the Florida Building Code as state law, it’s requirements now also apply to the District. The result is that the EPCOT Building Code must be equal to or more restrictive than the Florida Building Code which is itself more restrictive than the model International Building Code in certain aspects. The differences are now quite small.

Where Disney had a real advantage was in being able to more easily work directly with building officials. It’s a lot easier to get a project approved when trying things if you go in knowing the building official is going to accept your solution. This though is not a unique offering. One can also request meetings with Orlando and Orange County officials to review projects early and it’s now fairly common for big projects. Universal was absolutely meeting with the building and fire departments of Orange County to discuss Epic Universe. Disney’s advantage is that they’re pretty much the only client and could get staffing increases if they found things to be slowing down.

 

[mysto]

A government ruler whose power is derived by fiat can overcharge for services.
A private ruler whose power is derived from money can overcharge for services.

Both kinds of ruler are also capable of being fair.

To those who say they know how an RCID change will affect costs, I disagree.

 

[RoysCabin]

There absolutely are legitimate questions to ask about the District. I would recommend anyone who is genuinely interested in how the District has benefited Disney read Married to the Mouse by Richard Foglesong. I found it very telling that an article posted yesterday gave the impression that even he is leery of what is happening.

Yep, I picked that book up as research for my History MA thesis. It's academic and thus fairly dry, but it's incredibly well researched.

 

[JohnD]

Yep, I picked that book up as research for my History MA thesis. It's academic and thus fairly dry, but it's incredibly well researched.

I did my senior research paper in college on the RCID and Disney's presence in general on the state and central Florida. My title still holds up today: "Changing Attitudes Over a Growing Mouse". That was in 1991 which was before he wrote his book. My central thesis is that it took all three branches of government to establish Disney in FL. The attitudes? Well, excitement in the late 1960s. It's Walt Freaking Disney! Stagnation in the 1970s. Growth in the 1980s and early 1990s where the counties got involved wondering about the affects of infrastructure outside the RCID. Disney needs to step up, etc. Growth management plans were also all the rage. Being I submitted it in Spring of 1991, three of the four parks had been built and growth was continuing. Now attitudes are changing yet again in the opposite direction. We know that two of the three branches are looking to dissolve the RCID. What will happen in the 3rd? Obviously, it will go to court just as it did when the RCID was formed. To be continued. . .

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Why oh why did Disney have to take a stick, walk right up to the political bee-hive and whack it like that? This was completely unnecessary and 100% self enflicted.

Disney, my God...please stay away from "all" politics. Stop "all" support for "all" politicians. You need to declare a NEUTRAL and non-poltical policy from this day forward. Do not try to be an "activist" entertainment company. This only leads to horrible outcomes and the deeper you go, the worse it will get.

Social politics are a quick-sand that you cant escape and it ends only with you greatly upsetting BOTH sides of whatever issue you are tangled in.

Politics is a VERY dirty business. Dont think that you can dive into it and somehow stay clean. That is 100% impossible. Just avoid the temptation....and stay as far away from it as much as you can.

Treat all your castmembers well. Do not get in bed with "any" politician. Do not publically alienate your customers or your shareholders...no matter how much you privately want to.

Be Switzerland......

I would rather companies stand up for their employees' rights when they are under direct attack, thank you.

 

[GimpYancIent]

B.C. influenced by some bad advice and exercised poor judgement stepped into a clearly marked minefield, now, after stepping on a mine there is a lot of collateral damage to deal with and secondary hazards. B.C. = bad judgement.

 

[GimpYancIent]

So you’re okay with laws that target you for your political positions? Can we impose additional taxes on you and others who share your views? Or is it only okay to punish those you see as opponents?

Please! Give me a break! Like that has not been going on prior to this by all sides. Not breaking news! Personal agendas, everyone has one.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Has anyone actually seen a non partisan pros and cons breakdown?

I’ve read articles saying this will harm the state because $2 billion in Disney debt will instantly become Florida debt, I’ve also read articles saying this will harm Disney because they’ll pay upwards of $500 million more a year in taxes to the state.

I can’t find an unbiased article that has looked at everything and broken down if this will be beneficial/damaging to Florida, beneficial/damaging to Disney, or beneficial/damaging to both.

We don't know, but we will find out now that RCID is going away.
Lets say now that RCID is gone, WDW is no longer sheltered from some taxes to the the county or state. WDW can simply not pay them or take their time to pay them.
The RCID workers that used to get paid by WDW, still is doing the day to day work and still must be paid by the taxpayer.
Disney wins.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Please! Give me a break! Like that has not been going on prior to this by all sides. Not breaking news! Personal agendas, everyone has one.

Something bad happening does not justify it continuing.

 

[Lord Starwalker]

Disney Anaheim and Universal are pretty profitable without their own special districts.

There's nothing DeSantis can do to break WDW, which just had it's highest quarterly revenue ever.

Actually there are other tax loopholes that Disney is benifiting from today that are certainly now under consideration. For example, that little Wholesale loophole that saves Disney millions in taxes every year: https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2011/05/28/mickey-hates-taxes-too/

 

[CAV]

Yes it is homophobic. If you can’t understand why, explaining it to you would be impossible, and I would not waste a single keystroke trying.

How so? You, or anyone

So it's open fascism, then.

The FL GOP is pretty clearly engaged in viewpoint discrimination, which is at the heart of almost all of its most recent legislation impacting RCID, state universities, state public schools, and potentially even Twitter now; punishing political opponents, real or perceived, due to feeling they "took the wrong side" on an issue (e.g. wanting to punish Twitter for not allowing Elon Musk to take over, DeSantis's "it's actually about fiduciary responsibility!" PR being a very, very tiny fig leaf).

Which is not to say that Disney is the "good guy" here, either: RCID was a pretty massive giveaway when it happened, and there's tons of cases to be made for doing away with it. However, "do it because the company that supported me for years and initially didn't come out against our explicitly homophobic legislation, but then changed course due to a near-mutiny from its employees" is not the context under which RCID should be revoked, given the larger long term implications, which are explicitly fascistic in nature.

Any decent state court would find against this legislation due to said viewpoint discrimination, but this is Florida, the politics of which are broken on basically every level through gerrymandering and a host of other issues (which, admittedly, are not all exclusive to Florida).

That said, the silliest part of all of this is the very notion that Disney is "woke". First off, "woke" is the new "socialism"; a term used quite liberally by people who have no earthly idea what it even refers to, beyond "something I don't like or which makes me uncomfortable for reasons I refuse to adequately explain."

Disney, shock of shocks, is only firmly committed to one thing: making greater dividends for its shareholders. That's it. I'm sure there are artists and creators within the company who have more ambitious artistic goals and want to express themselves through their work, but as a corporate entity Disney only cares about "how do we maximize returns and increase shareholder value from last fiscal year's numbers?" Disney will appeal to different communities through its movies and content because it has made the very straightforward calculation that doing so will result in greater financial returns than not doing so. Disney doesn't set the cultural zeitgeist; it goes where the zeitgeist goes, and if that was away from respect and tolerance for marginalized communities then Disney would likely do little to nothing to stand athwart.

I mean, hell, look at Disney's marketing towards some foreign markets, where they go out of their way to minimize the presence of LGBT+ characters or even actors of color (the infamous Force Awakens poster in China that nearly erased John Boyega); Disney is no different from literally any other company, and the idea that they're "pushing a woke agenda" is code for "Disney is trying to appeal to a market I don't like, and again I refuse to expound on why I'm not comfortable with them." They want money, and they'll change positions to make more money as they see fit.

So yeah, this is a fight between a corporate entity whose only principle is "more money, pls" and a state government engaged in explicitly fascist politics. I don't intend to "cheer for" Disney so much as call out authoritarian governance for what it is.

Viewpoint discrimination- there's a new one...no, actually is what politics is all about. Discrimination against opposing views.

It's funny that people think "discrimination" is always illegal. Discrimination is only illegal when it is against protected classes -race, color, creed, religion, gender, and most recently, sexual identity/preference.

People are discriminated against every single day, legally.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the Florida Body Poltic's decision, however, if you use the special privilege the government afforded you to oppose that government, don't be surprised when that same government removes that special privilege.

Chapek has been running roughshod over everything to enrich himself and thought he was untouchable- he found out different. Ironically, giving into a small, internal, boisterous minority caused the wheels to come loose.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not saying I agree or disagree with the Florida Body Poltic's decision, however, if you use the special privilege the government afforded you to oppose that government, don't be surprised when that same government removes that special privilege.

How was the District used to oppose the state?

 

[GimpYancIent]

How so? You, or anyone

Viewpoint discrimination- there's a new one...no, actually is what politics is all about. Discrimination against opposing views.

It's funny that people think "discrimination" is always illegal. Discrimination is only illegal when it is against protected classes -race, color, creed, religion, gender, and most recently, sexual identity/preference.

People are discriminated against every single day, legally.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the Florida Body Poltic's decision, however, if you use the special privilege the government afforded you to oppose that government, don't be surprised when that same government removes that special privilege.

Chapek has been running roughshod over everything to enrich himself and thought he was untouchable- he found out different. Ironically, giving into a small, internal, boisterous minority caused the wheels to come loose.

The squeaky wheel gets the lubricant now it's time to replace it with a proper working wheel.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

So I work in local government management and decided to look up exactly what RCID does, how it contracts with other agencies for services, what services it provides itself, etc. to determine what the district provides and what would change in the event of it going away. It is my opinion that the actual money for the services wouldn't be a massive hurdle, though it would be a major political and bureaucratic challenge (and a somewhat minor, but real, fiscal challenge) to integrate the taxing district into the 2 counties. The biggest hurdle would be the provision of services and the amount of debt servicing required to ensure WDW remains smoothly operated from a utilities and roads maintenance point of view.

The district itself is a over $150m+/year entity that employs hundreds of people who are organized in such a way to provide services in the manner they have been doing for decades. As someone who has negotiated many types of services between governmental entities for mutual aid, utility rates, and much more, it is not as simple as Orange or Osceola counties taking over the services provided by RCID. This process can take years. the RCID do have an exceptionally large debt service (which was my initial reaction to the $2b in debt), as they have $750m in principal to pay. My guess is that the $2b number is what they are authorized to borrow, which is different than actual debt holdings. However, despite the debt doing a number on the fund balance (over the third of money in the general fund budget goes to debt servicing), I am positive that they have extremely low interest rates (like under 1%), as I'm sure the district has an excellent credit rating and has refinanced the debt continuously to get the most favorable rates. Still this would be the largest fiscal challenge and I think a relatively unique situation on who would be holding the bag on those debts at the end of the day. It's not everyday a taxing authority this large (though at the end of the day not THAT huge) gets dissolved.

I won't go over every service in detail, unless that would be helpful. However there are a number of things that likely wouldn't change, while others will provide for massive bureaucratic headaches. For example, they already contract with Orange and Osceola Counties, as well as the Florida Highway patrol for policing. That would likely continue. But large services provided directly by the district, such as street maintenance and Fire/EMS (which employs nearly half of the Districts employees), would need to be integrated in a rather quickly into either/both counties services.

The $2B may be their borrowing limit. At the end of their 2021 fiscal year (6/30/21), RCID had $766.466 million in outstanding General Obligation Bonds, plus another $84.377 million in outstanding Utility Revenue Bonds (debt guaranteed by the revenue RCID receives from Disney for its use of utilities provided by RCID), and $126.271 million in additional Utility borrowings. I'm not sure how the Utility debt would be settled if RCID ceases to exist. It's possible that the counties would have to pay them off right away since the revenue pledged would no longer exist.

On top of all that debt, there are other liabilities like unused vacation/sick time ($3 577 million) and pension/post-retirement benefits (combined $89.446 million) that would become obligations of the counties.

If the dissolution is allowed to happen and takes effect at the end of June 2022, then that would mean the counties take over starting with Fiscal Year 2024 (7/1/23 - 6/30/24). The General Obligation Bonds have $35.7 million in principal + $22.8 million in interest due that year. All told, the residents of the counties would be paying off that debt through their property taxes through 2038. Excluding bond premiums, RCID owes (as of 6/30/21) $719.095 million in principal + $242.866 million in interest for the life of those bonds. Now, it's possible that the dissolution of RCID could be considered a default event that could trigger immediate repayment of the bonds. In that case, the counties would likely have to issue new debt to pay it off, which would likely extend the payments out beyond 2038.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Private companies should not get involved in politics and taking positions on laws that were designed to protect my rights as a parent. Keep your personal opinions on social matters to yourself. My children will learn the values of MY FAMILY, not yours. Schools are supposed to teach ACADEMICS, not social structure and other communist motivations.

HB1557 is NOT about parental rights. There were already laws on the books protecting your rights as a parent.

If you think public education isn't supposed to teach social skills and how to be a productive member of society, then you don't know anything about education.