Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[lazyboy97o]

Prior to COVID-19, when has this ever been said about a vaccine? When kids get vaccinated, does the pediatrician say, "this is to make sure they don't get a severe case of measles?"

I'm having trouble finding the quotes from Dr. Salk about protecting people from severe cases of Polio.

Anyone who understood the history of vaccines and how they work knew this. It wasn’t some deep dark secret. For the hundredth time, the 2014 measles outbreak at Disneyland included vaccinated individuals.

The last person to contract and die of smallpox had been vaccinated.

The development of a polio vaccine was a challenge because it needed to be strong enough to provoke a response but also not cause disease.

 

[mmascari]

Orange County health director Dr. Raul Pino placed on administrative leave

Here's what we know so far:

www.wftv.com

Is that likely to impact data coming out of Orange county or not so much?

 

[Andrew C]

Prior to COVID-19, when has this ever been said about a vaccine? When kids get vaccinated, does the pediatrician say, "this is to make sure they don't get a severe case of measles?"

I'm having trouble finding the quotes from Dr. Salk about protecting people from severe cases of Polio.

Yeah, let's not pretend that it wasn't one of the intended purposes of these vaccines to actually prevent you from getting the virus in the first place (the high efficacy was talked about non-stop), with the other intention being if you were unlucky and still got it, it would help to prevent severe symptoms. I get that they were not designed for the current variant, so it is so much less effective in preventing infection. Things change but we should not gloss over the fact that this was the original intention (one of them), and probably the reason that most got the vaccine to begin with...given that it was sold in this manner. I bet this is one of the reasons why Bill Gates, among others, have stated that we needed vaccines that do better with preventing infection. I think some companies are working on this??

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah, let's not pretend that it wasn't one of the intended purposes of these vaccines to actually prevent you from getting the virus in the first place, with the other intention being if you were unlucky and still got it, it would help to prevent severe symptoms. I get that they were not designed for the current variant, so it is so much less effective in preventing infection. But we should not gloss over the fact that this was the original intention, and probably the reason that most got the vaccine to begin in. I bet this is one of the reasons why Bill Gates, among others, have stated that we needed vaccines that do better with preventing infection.

Vaccines have no means of stopping a virus from entering your body. They train the immune system to attack the virus which means it first has to be in your body.

 

[Lilofan]

Orange County health director Dr. Raul Pino placed on administrative leave

Here's what we know so far:

www.wftv.com

Is that likely to impact data coming out of Orange county or not so much?

The chief acting as a whistleblower has been silenced but not before he spoke out.

 

[Nubs70]

Prior to COVID-19, when has this ever been said about a vaccine? When kids get vaccinated, does the pediatrician say, "this is to make sure they don't get a severe case of measles?"

I'm having trouble finding the quotes from Dr. Salk about protecting people from severe cases of Polio.

Vaccines helped with my mild case of the mumps

 

[Andrew C]

Vaccines have no means of stopping a virus from entering your body. They train the immune system to attack the virus which means it first has to be in your body.

You know very well this is not how it was sold to the world population. People were not told to get the vaccine because, while you are still likely to get it, you will not have severe symptoms. They were told it would prevent infection. We were told breakthrough cases would be rare. I get that things change with new variants, but let's not change history.

 

[danlb_2000]

Orange County health director Dr. Raul Pino placed on administrative leave

Here's what we know so far:

www.wftv.com

Is that likely to impact data coming out of Orange county or not so much?

Pretty sad when a public health official is punished for making public health recomendations.

 

[mmascari]

The chief acting as a whistleblower has been silenced but not before he spoke out.

Reading the article closer, apparently an employer even suggesting it's a good idea to get vaccinated is being thought of as exactly the same as an employer mandate. At least for a government employer.

Several of our FL business owner posters could be one complaint away from fines it sounds like.

 

[wdwmagic]

Pretty sad when a public health official is punished for making public health recomendations.

Yes unless there is more than is being reported this seems to be a huge over-reaction. He's been on this since day one and has been doing a great job of keeping people informed. Hope to see him back.

 

[danlb_2000]

Yeah, let's not pretend that it wasn't one of the intended purposes of these vaccines to actually prevent you from getting the virus in the first place (the high efficacy was talked about non-stop), with the other intention being if you were unlucky and still got it, it would help to prevent severe symptoms. I get that they were not designed for the current variant, so it is so much less effective in preventing infection. Things change but we should not gloss over the fact that this was the original intention (one of them), and probably the reason that most got the vaccine to begin with...given that it was sold in this manner. I bet this is one of the reasons why Bill Gates, among others, have stated that we needed vaccines that do better with preventing infection. I think some companies are working on this??

People were so concerned about how safe the vaccines were because they were developed so fast, they failed to even think about what was actually sacrificed for speed, that was the study of long term efficacy.

 

[correcaminos]

This is also one of the classic anti-vaxer talking points. "They changed the definition of vaccine since this one doesn't prevent infection".

Yep, and I still have paperwork from my kid's vaccines. They never say 100% but give the ranges. Honestly I think some people are posting to be contrary on purpose. Or promote the idea that we need to just remove all masks and let it rip.

Never mind that stores close and public services are being disrupted when too many fall ill.

 

[DisneyCane]

This has always been said about the Flu vaccine. Never heard anyone say that the Flu vaccine will 100% prevent infection.

That's because the Flu shot (nobody ever referred to it as a vaccine even though it technically is) only targets 3 strains per year that are based on an educated guess out of the hundreds or thousands of possible strains floating around. It absolutely should be highly effective in preventing infection of those 3 strains.

This is also one of the classic anti-vaxer talking points. "They changed the definition of vaccine since this one doesn't prevent infection".

Well, the CDC did, literally, change the definition of a vaccine on their website. It isn't a talking point. It's a fact. It was either wrong before or wrong now.

Anyone who understood the history of vaccines and how they work knew this. It wasn’t some deep dark secret. For the hundredth time, the 2014 measles outbreak at Disneyland included vaccinated individuals.

The last person to contract and die of smallpox had been vaccinated.

The development of a polio vaccine was a challenge because it needed to be strong enough to provoke a response but also not cause disease.

The MMR vaccine is 97% effective. No vaccine is 100% effective. That doesn't mean they aren't designed to prevent infection. It is just impossible to create one that can do so at 100% efficacy.

The COVID vaccines were intended to prevent infection at an efficacy of 70% (if I'm remembering the number correctly) or better. Against Omicron they are nowhere near this level.

Vaccines have no means of stopping a virus from entering your body. They train the immune system to attack the virus which means it first has to be in your body.

My goodness! What on earth are you talking about? The immune system attacks a virus to PREVENT it from infecting you. When you are exposed to some random virus, if your immune system recognizes it, it tries to attack it. If it is successful, then it prevents you from being infected or at least prevents enough replication to keep you from having any symptoms. This is why we don't walk around constantly sick.

This rewriting of history to pretend that the COVID vaccines weren't intended to prevent infection is bordering on insanity. How were they supposed to lead to herd immunity (which Dr. Fauci talked about when they were first made available) if they didn't prevent infection? You can't possibly have herd immunity if everybody is vulnerable to infection but they just don't have symptoms.

 

[Andrew C]

Pretty sad when a public health official is punished for making public health recomendations.

He seemed to be providing his opinion to staff that undermined the position of the Florida Dept of Health. There may be consequences to that. Now, whether I agree with the position of the Dept of Health, or this decision to put him on leave is another matter entirely. But I don't live in Florida, so my opinion is rather worthless. lol

 

[mmascari]

You know very well this is not how it was sold to the world population. People were not told to get the vaccine because, while you are still likely to get it, you will not have severe symptoms. They were told it would prevent infection. We were told breakthrough cases would be rare. I get that things change with new variants, but let's not change history.

Nothing changed. There's no change to history or how things worked or were defined.

The only change has been how far into the details people are starting to dig and try to understand. It's like taking the Schoolhouse Rock How a Bill Becomes a Law song and then reading up on a more detailed (but still not every detail) view of the process and complaining that Schoolhouse Rock was a lie and everything changed. Then going back and reading an even more detailed view that's deeper into stuff the prior one glossed over too and calling that a lie also.

The only change has been the general public digging deeper down into the level of understanding instead of just a superficial one. Using that to call the superficial explanation wrong has been a bad faith argument to call the whole thing wrong since the beginning.

Bonus points when people take terms with specific technical meaning in the deeper explanations and instead use a more generic definition to say it means something different than it really does.

 

[danlb_2000]

My goodness! What on earth are you talking about? The immune system attacks a virus to PREVENT it from infecting you. When you are exposed to some random virus, if your immune system recognizes it, it tries to attack it. If it is successful, then it prevents you from being infected or at least prevents enough replication to keep you from having any symptoms. This is why we don't walk around constantly sick.

Explain to me how a vaccine would prevent a virus from entering your body?

 

[mkt]

Prior to COVID-19, when has this ever been said about a vaccine?

When I paid attention in class.

Prior to COVID-19, when was there so much refusal to get vaccinated?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

What makes you think the manufacturer's can produce unlimited masks to be given away? YoOu might want a "stockpile" for yourself but then we are back to the TP thing.

I just watched a news story about stockpiles of PPE sitting out in the rain in San Francisco, almost $10 million worth of brand new gowns, shields, goggles, etc that are probably heading straight to the dump because they didn’t have room to store it indoors.

When asked they said they stockpiled it because it was in short supply but then they didn’t need it.

Don’t stockpile and everyone blames you for not planning ahead, stockpile but without adequate management and stuff gets “lost” and it just goes to waste. Happened in FL with tests, happened in SF with PPE, probably happening in thousands of cities across the world right now, ordered and forgotten about.

Sadly, most of the test kits and masks will probably end up in drawers forgotten about until they are tossed in the trash during the next round of spring cleaning.

 

[DisneyCane]

Explain to me how a vaccine would prevent a virus from entering your body?

Technically the vaccine doesn't prevent anything. It elicits a response from your immune system to teach your immune system to recognize a particular virus.

That said, nothing prevents a virus or bacteria from entering your body if it is airborne. Your immune system prevents said virus or bacteria from developing into an infection.

Efficacy against infection doesn't mean there is a barrier that prevents SARS-CoV-2 variants from entering your body. It means that the immune response would prevent the virus from infecting you once it is in there. That doesn't even mean that it won't replicate at all, it means that it will keep the viral load low enough that it doesn't cause any symptoms and it isn't able to be transmitted from you.

When I paid attention in class.

Prior to COVID-19, when was there so much refusal to get vaccinated?

What's the flu shot uptake rate? Around 50%?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yeah, let's not pretend that it wasn't one of the intended purposes of these vaccines to actually prevent you from getting the virus in the first place (the high efficacy was talked about non-stop), with the other intention being if you were unlucky and still got it, it would help to prevent severe symptoms. I get that they were not designed for the current variant, so it is so much less effective in preventing infection. Things change but we should not gloss over the fact that this was the original intention (one of them), and probably the reason that most got the vaccine to begin with...given that it was sold in this manner. I bet this is one of the reasons why Bill Gates, among others, have stated that we needed vaccines that do better with preventing infection. I think some companies are working on this??

But they gave us percentages for various types of effectiveness (preventing infection, preventing hospitalization, and preventing death) - and the % for preventing infection was never cited as being 100%. The only pretending going on now is people pretending that we were promised 0 cases in vaccinated people when the vaccines rolled out. We weren't, but it's become an anti-vaxxer talking point to pretend that we were. It's gaslighting - and not in the good "59 Sound" kind of way.