You're going to pay to ride.

[Brad Bishop]

I've had this thought before:

With Genie, ultimately, they're going to have you pay to ride.

There's all sorts of ways that they can play with the numbers/stand-by times, etc. to coerce you. I don't think they'll have to go to that much trouble, however.

FastPass (original) was geared around:
- improved guest experience
- instead of waiting in line you'd hopefully be spending money.

FastPass+
- this was geared around improving park operations (reducing costs)

Genie+ / Lightning Lane
- This is geared around: Having you pay.

With FastPass (original) the whole "standing in line" bit was tipped on its head. The "FastPass" line was really the "normal line" where everyone waited (virtually) and the Standby Line was just that: Standby. It was like waiting/hoping for a Standby seat on an airplane. Sure, if one pops up you'll get it but, really, the normal line is FastPass.

I think that the end result of this is going to be people, while they won't believe it now, will not only accept that pay-per-ride is the norm, but they'll expect it. You can see this with a kind of false popularity of Peter Pan and TSMM (assuming it's like how it was when people would rush to it 5+ years back - that may have changed in recent years). Basically the word got out, "Oh, TSMM is a MUST and you HAVE to get there when the park first opens and RUN to TSMM if you want a shot at getting a FastPass (normal line) that day!"

Keep in mind: I'm not saying either or these are bad rides. I like both of them. I'm saying that there's a false demand for them created by the word-of-mouth bit which creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Anyway, getting back to Lightning Lane. If the FastPass line was the "normal line" then the Lightning Lane really is the new "normal line" and "standby" is still, in reality, "standby".

Even worse:
- With FastPass there was something like a 10:1 ratio of FastPass:Standby. When you were stopped in the FastPass lane to let some Standby guests in you didn't complain because it was no money out of your pocket for this and you were still well ahead of where you'd have otherwise been.
- With Lightning Lane now you're a paying customer and you didn't just pay $20/head to watch the "standby" lane go first. Again, the Standby Lane literally is "Standby" like you're waiting for an empty seat on a plane. As such, I see, eventually, the Standby lane really catering to those who'll go to the airport and buy a standby ticket because their first goal, no matter what, is saving a few $$$ (probably because they have to).
- Lightning Lane won't be the "rich" lane it'll just be the "expected to pay" lane (like how most people get a seat on an airplane. They want to have it scheduled, and they don't want to see a Standby person get their seat).

As such, I'd argue in 5-10 years, the "Lightning Lane" (paid) will become the norm (It is the "normal line" for getting onto a ride as history has shown with FastPass) and, effectively, poor people will be in the standby lane. They had enough money to get into the parks but not quite enough to pay to ride.

I also see this being flipped on its head with:
- "Well, originally Disney had you pay to get into the parks AND pay for rides" (this, of course, forgets that the higher price to get into the parks was in lieu of paying per ride)
- "You don't have to pay to ride if you don't want to - there's always standby" (and your family doesn't have to pay for the full fare of the airline ticket to get to Florida - they have the option of a reduced priced fare which they could wait multiple hours or a day or more to fly)
- (probably the most egregious one - and, yes, I see this being written in the future on this board): "The standby line gives those who can't afford it the option of still riding but they'll just have to wait a little longer."

Meanwhile, everyone else is paying $5-20/head to ride each ride and thinking it's normal, and probably paying $250/head just to get into the park. Also, "...it's a business."

"...but! but!! but!!! Universal and Six Flags have pay-to-skip the lines!"
- Yes they do. The difference is that the normal line is still the normal line. It's a normal queue. The intent is to give someone with lots of $$$$ or little time the ability to pay $$$$ to skip the line. The line is still the line. It's not a "standby" line. The norm isn't, "I have to buy an Express Pass to enjoy the day!" The norm is just getting in the normal line.

If you're thinking this is over the top, consider Bob. This is a man who'll leave nothing free on the table. You getting on the ride? All he sees on the spreadsheet is that ride cost $$$$$$ to operate and generates $0. He would like to sell that to you and, I think, he has a pretty good plan in place to do so.

He also knows: "They'll and then line up and scream, "TAKE MY MONEY!," and, eventually, defend this plan." (regardless of what the plan is.)

 

[wendysue]

Never

 

[Rickcat96]

nope-Just finished a week Christmas stay-never needed it, never used it.

 

[Touchdown]

Still haven’t need it, check out my trip analysis from earlier in December:

December 2021 Trip Analysis: Keeping Genie+ in a Bottle

All right after my trip in late October I came away feeling that I did not need Genie+ and I decided to keep track throughout my stay in December before I get to the raw data, I do want to point out a few points, I was greatly “hindered” on my evenings at Epcot this trip because I had 8:30...

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[Trauma]

Don’t we have a genie thread I don’t get this?

 

[larryz]

Don’t we have a genie thread I don’t get this?

Sure we do, but nobody wants to append their own experience onto a 563-page-long thread that nobody is reading...

 

[jpinkc]

We used it Thanksgiving week and it was useless everywhere but MK. Having to pay to get Remy, ROTR and SDMT really turned us off. The whole system is inherently flawed on return times etc. Needless to say our annual WDW trips are probably done for quite some time.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

I bet everyone who had to pay use these were saying the same thing...

 

[Phil12]

You're already paying to ride. There is a hefty admission price just to walk into any and all of the Disney parks.

 

[drizgirl]

I bet everyone who had to pay use these were saying the same thing...

I bet they didn't pay $150 to walk through the gates.

 

[Brad Bishop]

I didn't mean later this week. I'm saying 5-10 years out it'll be normal to pay to ride (and you'll likely defend it because: rides need maintenance; cast members need to be paid; etc.)

The Genie discussion thread is more of a "what is happening now". That is why I created a separate thread.

I think one of two things will happen:
1) You will just fall into it and land on, "Well.. it's easier to just pay than it is to wait."
2) Disney will manipulate the numbers/Genie to push you into it.

Ultimately: 10 years out, I think you'll be paying per ride and making excuses for it ("Well, the Disney rides are SO much better! This isn't Six Flags.")

I'd be surprised if pay-per-ride wasn't a long term goal of Bob.

 

[graphite1326]

We used it Thanksgiving week and it was useless everywhere but MK. Having to pay to get Remy, ROTR and SDMT really turned us off. The whole system is inherently flawed on return times etc. Needless to say our annual WDW trips are probably done for quite some time.

I am with you

 

[UNCgolf]

If they can charge the same admission price and also charge people to ride most (or all) attractions on top of admission without losing business, this is absolutely what will happen.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

I bet they didn't pay $150 to walk through the gates.

Quite true!

 

[pluto77]

I’m confused on why you are calling the Lightning Lane at Disney the “normal line,” but you aren’t using the same logic for the express lines at Universal and Six Flags. Sure, the systems are set up and priced differently, but the intent of the lines are the same. Both parks have the “stand by” lines, which are the regular lines that you don’t pay extra for, or you can choose to pay to get into the lines that will get you on the ride faster. The expectations that the customers have to get on the ride fast, when they pay, is inherently the same at any of the parks.

Disney guests put up with a lot, but I have a hard time believing that paying to get on every single ride will be the normal thing to do, because, what’s the point of a Lightning Lane then? There’s a limit to Lightning Lanes for a reason. And, in the end, you can enjoy a day at Disney just as easily without using Lightning Lane as you can enjoy a day at Universal without Express Pass. People are already figuring out when and where it’s not even worth paying for an attraction. I don’t think the general public will be willing to
pay $20/person to stand in a 2 hour long line after already paying so much to get in. There has to be some kind of benefit for that extra fee, other than just waiting in a normal line. There is a breaking point somewhere. It may not seem like it, but there is.

 

[John park hopper]

I bet everyone who had to pay use these were saying the same thing...

even paying for ride tickets admission prices were cheap I remember paying MK parking 50 cents

Date	Price	Increase
October 1971	$3.50	—
February 1972	$3.75	$0.25
April 1973	$4.50	$0.75
June 1974	$5.25	$0.75
December 1975	$6.00	$0.75
June 1978	$6.50	$0.50
April 1979	$7.00	$0.50
March 1980	$7.50	$0.50
November 1980	$8.00	$0.50
October 1981	$9.50	$1.50
June 1982	$13.25	$3.75
September 1982	$15.00	$1.75
October 1983	$17.00	$2.00
June 1984	$18.00	$1.00
June 1985	$19.50	$1.50
November 1985	$21.50	$2.00
March 1986	$23.00	$1.50
June 1986	$24.50	$1.50
December 1986	$26.00	$1.50
December 1987	$28.00	$2.00
May 1989	$29.00	$1.00
February 1990	$31.00	$2.00
February 1991	$33.00	$2.00
June 1992	$34.00	$1.00
May 1993	$35.00	$1.00
March 1994	$36.00	$1.00
February 1995	$37.00	$1.00
February 1996	$38.50	$1.50
March 1997	$39.75	$1.25
April 1998	$42.00	$2.25
May 1999	$44.00	$2.00
January 2000	$46.00	$2.00
January 2001	$48.00	$2.00
September 2002	$50.00	$2.00
June 2003	$52.00	$2.00
March 2004	$54.75	$2.75
January 2005	$59.75	$5.00
January 2006	$63.00	$3.25
August 2006	$67.00	$4.00
August 2007	$71.00	$4.00
August 2008	$75.00	$4.00
August 2009	$79.00	$4.00
August 2010	$82.00	$3.00
June 2011	$85.00	$3.00
June 2012	$89.00	$4.00
June 2013	$90.00	$1.00
June 2013	$95.00 (Magic Kingdom)	$6.00
February 2014	$94.00	$4.00
February 2014	$99.00 (Magic Kingdom)	$4.00

———————————————


https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando

 

[ppete1975]

Don’t we have a genie thread I don’t get this?

Its another the sky is falling everything is horrible thread... because we need more of them to clog things up.

 

[Brad Bishop]

I’m confused on why you are calling the Lightning Lane at Disney the “normal line,” but you aren’t using the same logic for the express lines at Universal and Six Flags. Sure, the systems are set up and priced differently, but the intent of the lines are the same. Both parks have the “stand by” lines, which are the regular lines that you don’t pay extra for, or you can choose to pay to get into the lines that will get you on the ride faster. The expectations that the customers have to get on the ride fast, when they pay, is inherently the same at any of the parks.

Disney guests put up with a lot, but I have a hard time believing that paying to get on every single ride will be the normal thing to do, because, what’s the point of a Lightning Lane then? There’s a limit to Lightning Lanes for a reason. And, in the end, you can enjoy a day at Disney just as easily without using Lightning Lane as you can enjoy a day at Universal without Express Pass. People are already figuring out when and where it’s not even worth paying for an attraction. I don’t think the general public will be willing to
pay $20/person to stand in a 2 hour long line after already paying so much to get in. There has to be some kind of benefit for that extra fee, other than just waiting in a normal line. There is a breaking point somewhere. It may not seem like it, but there is.

Because in each corporation, it's not the same thing.

Disney meant for FastPass line to be the "normal" line. They wanted/expected people to get a FastPass, go out and shop and eat, and then return to the normal "virtual line" at the correct time to ride. This is why the Standby line is literally called "Standby". This is the line you were to get into if you didn't care about the wait - kind of a "filler" line.

Other parks look at the normal line as just the normal line. This is the line that they expect you to get into UNLESS you want to "skip the line". To do that you pay $$$$ extra for some kind of express pass. They don't look at the "Express Pass Line" as the "normal line". They're not trying to do the same thing Disney is with, "You spend more eating and shopping."

It's nuanced but a very different approach to how different Disney sees the lines vs other companies.

As such, it makes far more sense that Disney would figure out how to "toll" the "normal" (FastPass/Lightning Lane) line as it is otherwise revenue that is left on the table.

I think there's a tipping point, somewhere in the future, where enough people will use the Lightning Lane line vs Standby to the point that the Standby line becomes nearly useless and people then just "expect to pay" (per ride).

You may still have rides, like the Peoplemover, which are left free (kind of like how the old, "If You Had Wings," was always free back in the ticket days) but mostly because it'd be too much trouble/expense to add an extra line to it or no one would pay to go on it (Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse, as an example). Everything else? I really believe it's just a matter of time.

Some say, "Oh, this is just more negative, "the sky is falling," talk".

OK.

FastPass is gone and Genie+ is paid and Lightning Lanes are with you. You have to pay for resort parking now. Disney's Magical Express will be gone soon. If you bought an AP with no blockout dates then there are still days, not technically blocked out, where you can't make a reservation. They got rid of a lot of the street performers but your ticket price remains the same. They cut back on maintenance and refurbs (maybe just make it a paint job).

...but everything is fine.

 

[drizgirl]

Because in each corporation, it's not the same thing.

Disney meant for FastPass line to be the "normal" line. They wanted/expected people to get a FastPass, go out and shop and eat, and then return to the normal "virtual line" at the correct time to ride. This is why the Standby line is literally called "Standby". This is the line you were to get into if you didn't care about the wait - kind of a "filler" line.

Other parks look at the normal line as just the normal line. This is the line that they expect you to get into UNLESS you want to "skip the line". To do that you pay $$$$ extra for some kind of express pass. They don't look at the "Express Pass Line" as the "normal line". They're not trying to do the same thing Disney is with, "You spend more eating and shopping."

It's nuanced but a very different approach to how different Disney sees the lines vs other companies.

As such, it makes far more sense that Disney would figure out how to "toll" the "normal" (FastPass/Lightning Lane) line as it is otherwise revenue that is left on the table.

I think there's a tipping point, somewhere in the future, where enough people will use the Lightning Lane line vs Standby to the point that the Standby line becomes nearly useless and people then just "expect to pay" (per ride).

You may still have rides, like the Peoplemover, which are left free (kind of like how the old, "If You Had Wings," was always free back in the ticket days) but mostly because it'd be too much trouble/expense to add an extra line to it or no one would pay to go on it (Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse, as an example). Everything else? I really believe it's just a matter of time.

Some say, "Oh, this is just more negative, "the sky is falling," talk".

OK.

FastPass is gone and Genie+ is paid and Lightning Lanes are with you. You have to pay for resort parking now. Disney's Magical Express will be gone soon. If you bought an AP with no blockout dates then there are still days, not technically blocked out, where you can't make a reservation. They got rid of a lot of the street performers but your ticket price remains the same. They cut back on maintenance and refurbs (maybe just make it a paint job).

...but everything is fine.

They also recently quietly moved more days to the higher ticket price category.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I think youre right, pay to ride is the direction things are moving towards. As long as Disney continues to draw vacationers in, the entrance numbers hold and people continue to pay out, Disney has no reason to hold back the charges. People will pay what they have to to get what they want. It may change the number of trips people take in a year, the number of days they book for a trip or the extras they add on to a trip, but its not going to stop enough people to make Disney question the move. The entrance fees will not go down because they can say its paying for your enjoyment of the surrounding atmosphere, the fireworks and parades.
They will have a few "free rides" so it can be said people who dont have the money or desire to pay still have something to enjoy. But these will be all the lesser popular ones that wouldnt bring in the money.
Raising ticket prices for concerts, sporting events, theater and shows, festivals and other forms of entertainment has not stopped people from attending in mass and it wont stop Disney vacationers. The people who will refuse to pay the price and protest by no longer going only makes room for those who will.