You better travel to WDW now, 2011 going to get more expensive.

[ChrisM]

Hmph! You beat me to it! Anyone who thinks that Disney was ever an elite destination is ridiculously delusional. It's a theme park first and foremost (the "elite" offerings are subpar compared to real elite destinations). People looking for elite vacations don't go to Disney World.

No one is suggesting that.

What is being suggested, however, is that Disney World was once a premium entertainment experience and is no longer. The experience just 10 years ago surpassed what it is today. What was once the height of technological advancement in theme park technology and planning is now simply quaint and, more and more often, poorly maintained. Dining experiences were somewhat unique and varied. Now they conform and cater to the lowest common denominator, assuming one can fight through the hordes demanding their "free" dining. I will spare you the full list.

I understand the vicious cycle of class/economic warfare people like to slide into. It's easy to do. But no one is covering themselves in glory in that particular argument as there are hints of truth in both of the "elitist a____________" and "low rent trailer trash" stereotypes.

I want as premium of an experience as possible, no matter the cost. Others want whatever they can get at the lowest possible cost. I'm sure we can all find genuine things in real life to be offended about rather than what someone writes on a messageboard.

 

[NX2I85]

I don't think the "elitist" sentiment expressed by a few (of my now favorite) posters in this thread is any more crass or rude than the perpetual circle jerking we constantly got from the "discount" crowd about the dizzying array of pins, discounts, free dining, etc and how it's allowing them to put their Nth Disney vacation in X months on the credit card which they probably can't really afford anyway.

You embraced and constantly celebrated the Walmartization of what was once a premium entertainment experience while we sat on our hands and bit our lips. Don't be too put off by a little celebrating from the other side at measures we hope will, at least, staunch the incessant diminishing by degrees that has been going on.

Going to Disney is not a right. And it once cost more and was a better product. There's a correlation there.

Actually, I mostly agree with you. But I strongly suspect that WDW currently has a deep need for the "$2000 p/w, family of four crowd" (of which I am sometimes a part). During the recent recession WDW would have been reeling without the tanktop-wearing, sandwich-packing, value-staying, gimme-a-free-cup-of-water-so-I-can-drink-it-with-my-crackers crowd. One can turn one's nose up at that if one wishes, but it is so.

IMO there are a whole bunch of ways to approach a WDW vacation, and none of them is the right way. You can go on the cheap or you can go whole hog. I've done it both ways and also in between. Right now though, I think WDW is dependent on those folks who are at the bottom of the spending scale.

Having said that, I never like to hear of folks piddling away the family's financial stability for the sake of a Disney vacation. I really hope not many are borrowing money to jump at these discounts.

 

[Korfar]

No one is suggesting that.

What is being suggested, however, is that Disney World was once a premium entertainment experience and is no longer. The experience just 10 years ago surpassed what it is today. What was once the height of technological advancement in theme park technology and planning is now simply quaint and, more and more often, poorly maintained. Dining experiences were somewhat unique and varied. Now they conform and cater to the lowest common denominator, assuming one can fight through the hordes demanding their "free" dining. I will spare you the full list.

I understand the vicious cycle of class/economic warfare people like to slide into. It's easy to do. But no one is covering themselves in glory in that particular argument as there are hints of truth in both of the "elitist a____________" and "low rent trailer trash" stereotypes.

I want as premium of an experience as possible, no matter the cost. Others want whatever they can get at the lowest possible cost. I'm sure we can all find genuine things in real life to be offended about rather than what someone writes on a messageboard.

I think it is still a premium product in the theme park industry. I don't think Universal or any six flags can even begin to touch Disney. Granted some aspects of the property could be maintained better but the overall experian is still 2nd to none. How would increasing rates and eliminating discounts help any? Business 101 would tell you that would decrease attendance. Are they really going to raise the rates enough to make up the lost volume? I don't think so.

 

[blackthidot]

I don't think lack of discount will stop me from going all together...in fact I'm sure it won't. But without free dining going on there will absolutely be ZERO 15 days WDW world trips unless I strike it rich one day.

 

[Korfar]

I don't think lack of discount will stop me from going all together...in fact I'm sure it won't. But without free dining going on there will absolutely be ZERO 15 days WDW world trips unless I strike it rich one day.

Hey there Blackthidot. I am in the same boat as you. I can go longer with the discounts but I would still go either way. I have gone in June with no discount what so ever and I have done the free dining as well. Everyone likes a discount. People can try to fool others all they want. There is no way someone would book a vacation at full price when there are discounts available. People that say otherwise are full of you know what.

 

[ChrisM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisM
Incipient nanny-ism at an attention getter, eh? Assume whatever you wish, I suppose.

Nanny-ism? How about not using terms from a p#rn movie to make your points.....

Attendance and occupancy are not my concerns. Perhaps discounts would never have been necessary had the Disney bean counters invested in better attractions? Perhaps occupancy would not be as much of an issue if they never began their Value resort building spree?

Well, unfortunately, they are the concerns of Disney. And whether you like it or not, Disney wil accept any guest, regardless of their socioeconomic status. And again, as you ignored, the fact that the discounts allowed WDW to maintain occupancy and attendance levels also meant that it allowed them to spend on such projects as the FL expansion, a new reosrt hotel, and quite possibly a new MI coaster at DHS....

I want as high quality of an entertainment experience as possible from Disney. Any move that assists in that regard I will applaud.

And this is achieved by keeping people out of the parks? Okay.....

Alternatively, this occurred because a very few people noticed that the quality of the experience had fallen so low that doing something to improve it was critical and had to be undertaken immediately.

Undertaken immediately? First of all, the fact that the discounts weren't going to be infinite was never a secret. Essentially, Disney put them in place to keep them going through the economic downturn. But to say that they caused a reduction in the overall experience is a fallacy, especially in the light of what WDW is bringing in for new attractions, resorts, restaurants and parades.

Ah, the nanny-ism is incipient no more. I'm sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities as we continue our plummet into the void. I did very much enjoy your passive accusation that I'm an intolerant bigot, though. Decorum and civility is, after all, paramount.

Disney could have chosen several different business models to combat difficult economic circumstances. They choose the most expedient and the product suffered as a result. Now, I'm not even suggesting they chose incorrectly. For what I want out of a Disney experience, however, I believe they chose poorly.

It merits mention that your argument concerning "Disney did X which resulted in Y" isn't really an argument at all abut rather a simple recounting of history and assuming causation. But while I find that line of reasoning to be specious, I'm not going to throw around hypotheticals and suggest you disprove them.

You have every right to believe that Disney's product has not suffered, just as you have the right to believe the oceans are filled with pea soup and dinosaurs roam a temperate plateau in Antarctica while your tinfoil hat helps protect you from mind control VitaRays blasted at you by the government. Godspeed.

 

[wm49rs]

Hey there Blackthidot. I am in the same boat as you. I can go longer with the discounts but I would still go either way. I have gone in June with no discount what so ever and I have done the free dining as well. Everyone likes a discount. People can try to fool others all they want. There is no way someone would book a vacation at full price when there are discounts available. People that say otherwise are full of you know what.

Don't you people realize you're part of the problem?!?! Keep talking like that and you'll be barred from the parks!

 

[DisneyJoe]

I think it is still a premium product in the theme park industry. I don't think Universal or any six flags can even begin to touch Disney. Granted some aspects of the property could be maintained better but the overall experience is still 2nd to none.

I agree 100%.

 

[misterID]

There will be a Jimmy Thick poll coming in the not too distant future...

 

[wm49rs]

Ah, the nanny-ism is incipient no more. I'm sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities as we continue our plummet into the void. I did very much enjoy your passive accusation that I'm an intolerant bigot, though. Decorum and civility is, after all, paramount.

Disney could have chosen several different business models to combat difficult economic circumstances. They choose the most expedient and the product suffered as a result. Now, I'm not even suggesting they chose incorrectly. For what I want out of a Disney experience, however, I believe they chose poorly.

It merits mention that your argument concerning "Disney did X which resulted in Y" isn't really an argument at all abut rather a simple recounting of history and assuming causation. But while I find that line of reasoning to be specious, I'm not going to throw around hypotheticals and suggest you disprove them.

You have every right to believe that Disney's product has not suffered, just as you have the right to believe the oceans are filled with pea soup and dinosaurs roam a temperate plateau in Antarctica while your tinfoil hat helps protect you from mind control VitaRays blasted at you by the government. Godspeed.

You know, you use terminology like that, and you may get called out on it. If you're offended by my comment, try not using the terms in a forum like this....

Causation? You said nothing more that the discounts offered and the people which visited the parks as a consequence were the agent of the park's alleged decline in status. Yet you seem to ignore the fact that if it weren't for the discounts, Disney may not have the ability to implement the new FL expansion, the building of a new resort, the construction of one new restaurant (and the complete refurbishment of another), and the potential construction of a new MI coaster. To say nothing of the ongoing renovation work that has been ongoing throughout the parks, including the cleaning of the monorail lines. Now, equate all of this to your alleged decline and the fact that it was all caused by the discounts....

You too are welcome to believe what you wish. Fortunately, I can see for myself what WDW is working towards. Instead of insulting those who choose to visit the parks through the use of a discount, and blame all of the ills therein on them, why not look around at some of what actually been going on inside and out of the parks? You know, pull your head out of the pea soup.....

 

[Phonedave]

I for one would be glad to see the discounts go, but not from a standpoint of price, but of principle.

Luckly I am DVC and have an AP, so most of the time I ignore the discounts. However, I have a trip in August on cash. It was almost as bad as buying a car.

Am I going at the right time ?
Is there a way I could get it for less ?
Did I get the best deal possible ?
What about if I try my AAA card ?
Maybe I will get a PIN ?
Will they extend free dining ?
What about AP discounts ?

It is almost as bad as booking airfare. Do I wait, or do I pull the trigger now? Maybe if I fly out of another airport? What if I book through a different website?

So yes, I would like to see simple, straightfoward pricing, with no discounts.

The cost per night for that room is X, no discounts. It costs this much to go for everyone, period, end of story. Set the price at a real price that will make Disney money and allow people to go. Stop inflating the prices just so they can offer discounts.

As a semi aside, I always thought FL residents should pay the same AP rate as the rest of us. Being a resident means you will be able to visit the parks more, so your AP is allready worth more to you. They should be giving people who live far away (like me ) an incentive to buy an AP.


-dave

 

[thehowiet]

I think you're misreading this a little bit.

The idea isn't truly that "only the wealthy" should be allowed in Disney World. The idea is that it really should cost more and would result in a superior product.

For those of more modest financial means this would equate to less frequent visits and a interregnum necessary for saving the money to go. That's how I remember my parents handling it when I was a child. And the experience was premium compared to that of today.

I'm going to have to disagree with you slightly.

Yes, it's obvious that in the past the experience was premium compared to the experience today. However, in the mid to late 80s I went with my family to WDW every year. We had the Gold Key plan which included EVERYTHING. Food, drinks (including alcohol), recreational activities like boat rentals, etc. This is pretty much the equivalent to the Platinum Dining plan we see today. My family was not rich by any means; we were middle class. We stayed in the Contemporary with a MK view every year. This is back when it was a premium experience and my middle class family was still able to afford a great vacation.

Look at the prices from back when WDW was at the top of its game as far as quality and tell me if you think you get the same bang for your buck today as you did back in "the good ol' days."

Example: In 1986 a one day ticket was $23.00. Today, when accounting for inflation, that would be the equivalent of roughly $45. Currently a one day ticket is $79.

 

[ChrisM]

I agree 100%.

I think it is still a premium product in the theme park industry. I don't think Universal or any six flags can even begin to touch Disney. Granted some aspects of the property could be maintained better but the overall experian is still 2nd to none. How would increasing rates and eliminating discounts help any? Business 101 would tell you that would decrease attendance. Are they really going to raise the rates enough to make up the lost volume? I don't think so.

Amazingly enough, I don't disagree. Which is why it's somewhat mindblowing that it used to be (A) even better and (B) even better by comparison.

 

[Korfar]

Amazingly enough, I don't disagree. Which is why it's somewhat mindblowing that it used to be (A) even better and (B) even better by comparison.

Wow. We agree on something. I will also mention that management has changed a few times since 1971 and each administration has different views on the parks. That could have more to do with the current state compared to yesteryear than discounts. Just a thought.

 

[stlbobby]

Just a few thoughts.

The elitism comments make me sad, even if they are being made in jest. I book vacations for people of all economic levels and I'd hate to see the experience reduced to any particular segment.

I also think Disney's strategy is to broaden the appeal in both directions by expanding value options, and offering more elite opportunities for those willing to pay for a premium experience. Examples are The Platinum Packages, Wishes! Cruises, The Fireworks Dessert party, the Tables in Wonderland special events, V&A offering even more exclusive meals, and many others.

The discounts were started way before the economic downturn. They began when WDW realized they could entice people into populating the off-season by offering great discounts. The discounts definitely helped WDW during the crisis and may have been enhanced, but they aren't directly connected to the economy.

Also anyone who thinks Disney is losing a dime through any discount or promotion is kidding themselves. They know exactly what it costs to service a guest and exactly how to maximize every margin. It is simple supply and demand. The prices will be exactly as high as they can charge and keep the parks and hotels filled.

As too alienating DVC and Passholders that is ridiculous. Disney caters to these solid repeat spenders. I am both and I get so many discounts and opportunities that I actually lose track of all of them. If anyone is getting the sweet deal it is DVC and PHer's. (BTW-I am not saying I am entitled to anything more than the regular customer, I am just refuting the idea that this segment is being abused.)

I feel, as do many others, that the parks are far better now than they have ever been. There are problems, but there also innovations, TT with Crush is amazing, and spectacular experiences. Much of the nay-saying is people just not getting what they want. A perfect example is the characters in World Showcase. Many see that as the apocalypse, but most visitors see it as an awesome additional chance to interact with the characters. The character interactions are what distinguishes Disney from other parks in many guests' minds, and those are the moments that make the trip. By offering guests more opportunities to get what they want they aren't destroying the parks, they are enhancing them.

Finally, IMHO, the ban on discounts will last until they look at the books and realize they are not achieving the occupancy rates they desire. If September 2011 looks slow in April 2011 expect a discount to be announced in May 2011. WDW's business model in recent years, and it seems to be working as they keep turning profits, is Vegas-esque--keep them at the tables. They want as many people coming through the gates and staying on property as possible because they know they will spend more. Very few people can strictly stick to a budget when faced with the infinite opportunities to buy.

They are also the masters of synergy. They will use the Toy Story 3 premiere to get people to the parks, and use advertising in the parks to get people excited about Toy Story 3. And when they buy their Alice in Wonderland DVD they will get commercials for both TS3 and WDW. They want to hook families while they are young and keep them constantly in a Disney state of mind. It's the Circle, The Circle of Life.

Thanks for reading. I know this was long, but this thread took so many turns.

I hope everyone gets to have a great vacation in 2011.

 

[disney magic 06]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I haven't noticed any particularly discounted prices, not from the UK anyway. There are plenty to Disneyland Paris but not WDW.

And what are these pin codes people keep mentioning?

 

[Phonedave]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I haven't noticed any particularly discounted prices, not from the UK anyway. There are plenty to Disneyland Paris but not WDW.

And what are these pin codes people keep mentioning?

People get PIN codes in the mail or by email. It is for the person who receives it, and that person only (and the party that books with them)

They are discounts of varying amounts.

PIN code analysis is a hobby some people have. There does not seem to be any clear rhyme or reason as to why some people get codes and others do not.

-dave

 

[hrcollectibles]

Seriously, prices were bound to return to their normal state. But as a previous poster mentioned, Disney will always offer some incentive to travel.

What more incentive is there other than the premier family vacation destination?

 

[WDWLOVER1957]

Disney can do pretty much anything they want to the DVC crowd. They already got paid.

Maybe that attitude is the reason for so many resales?

 

[WDWLOVER1957]

if Disney raised their prices don't think you'd be getting anything superior than you're getting now. You'd just have shorter wait times for attractions.

but that in itself would make a better vacation.