WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Disstevefan1]

I was talking about attendance issues.

I wonder about this in todays Disney them park business.

In the old days, attendance was the key metric to measure success.

Today I really think Disney is focused on per capita spending at the parks even though the theme park industry still focuses on attendance as a measure.

I know, I know, Disney wants both; Disney does not want to lose the crown of the most visited park on Earth.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

If you don’t pay extra for specialty dining are you in the same dining room each night?

It depends on the ship. Traditionally, yes. The “main dining room” is where you would eat, or the buffet, unless you wanted to pay extra.

But now, some ships offer multiple “MDR’s” that are included.

Also - Disney is unique in not having the buffet as an option for dinner. Most ships offer a pretty impressive dinner buffet with some specials that are usually quite good.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

DCL has six ships. RCL has 24. There is no comparison.

I worded that badly, I've edited it to say them deciding to build more ships than they do now means more options.

 

[Chi84]

I worded that badly, I've edited it to say them deciding to build more ships than they do now means more options.

That’s how I understood your post.

 

[LittleBuford]

I would say there are two common uses of the word “luxury”. One is “something you don’t need but want”, as in “I know every budget blog says to ditch Starbucks but I need my little luxuries” and the other is more a stylistic thing.

Stylistically, that second use of the word “luxury” invokes a certain snobbishness, the sense of belonging to an elite set, etc. There are plenty of things that are very expensive and provide great value that aren’t associated with that type of “luxury” - RVs, for example. And I don’t think that use of the word applies to Disney or should apply to Disney. No matter their income level, I don’t think that’s the vibe people are going for on a Disney vacation. It’s meant to represent many positive things - wholesomeness, Americana, playfulness, a focus on family, and so on, but I would never want Disney looking like an add for designer perfume, lol.

I’m joining the conversation late, but it’s interesting that the first sense of “luxury” seems to prevail when you use the word as a countable noun. I would say that a Disney trip is a luxury (or among life’s luxuries), but I would never say it’s luxurious or a luxury experience.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Overcrowding? Less rides?

It’d definitely crowded in Anaheim…but their capacity and distractions to assist with crowd flow is way better

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m joining the conversation late, but it’s interesting that the first sense of “luxury” seems to prevail when you use the word as a countable noun. I would say that a Disney trip is a luxury (or among life’s luxuries), but I would never say it’s luxurious or a luxury experience.

I think we have a consensus with this…

Which is why their continued price push is a problem.
They’re shedding customers and increasing the pressure to delivery a product that they can’t

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think other food and non-alcoholic beverage items on the ship? More restaurant options with only 1 or 2 specialty dining.

More onboard activities too, I believe. I'd have to do a more in depth comparison.

That’s actually where dcl falls short

Their ships are not equipped with Nearly enough options

Even with price upsells on the other lines…the value is much better than dcl.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think we have a consensus with this…

Which is why their continued price push is a problem.
They’re shedding customers and increasing the pressure to delivery a product that they can’t

I agree they need to stop charging so much, but I don’t think anyone really expects them to deliver a luxury product as such—just a really strong one. For me, personally, the value is still there, especially when I consider how expensive everything seems to have got (I realise others feel differently, and that’s fine).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We've done 3 Royal cruises post Covid and you definitely do not have to pay anything extra for I have a great cruise, have sufficient food.

They do offer many more specialty restaurants that are up charges so I would say a higher percentage of guests do pay extra for food than on DCL, but definitely not needed

…the base price of RCCL is about 50% of Disney

That’s the issue there

 

[HauntedPirate]

I worded that badly, I've edited it to say them deciding to build more ships than they do now means more options.

They have to want to sail to other ports first. Building more ships but using the same 20-year old itineraries is stupid. I sincerely hope they get out of their rut by the end of the decade.

 

[LSLS]

…the base price of RCCL is about 50% of Disney

That’s the issue there

Honestly I think it's a bit more recent the change has occurred. I remember looking at this like 5 years ago, and yes, the base was different, but to get a similar size room and pick it, etc., it ended up very close. I just looked within the last week (cause we want to do another cruise), and Disney was around $1k more expensive than Royal. Couple hundred I'm sure we'd do Disney for the themed lounges/kids clubs. One grand has us reconsidering.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

DCL does offer a more family friendly environment- no casino and no drink packages.

One of the negatives about the major cruise lines is they mix together groups of people who want to vacation in drastically different ways.

DCL and Virgin are in the same boat so to speak - they focus on a specific demographic that is large enough to fill up a smaller fleet of ships at a premium (but not luxury) price point.

 

[John park hopper]

We sailed on Holland America from Seattle to Alaska 14 days it was exceptional service and food --the crowd was mainly adults 45 and up ---a few well behaved kids.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I wonder about this in todays Disney them park business.

In the old days, attendance was the key metric to measure success.

Today I really think Disney is focused on per capita spending at the parks even though the theme park industry still focuses on attendance as a measure.

I know, I know, Disney wants both; Disney does not want to lose the crown of the most visited park on Earth.

They have focused on per guest spending and market share for decades…attendance goes right along with those two.

The mistake often made is the hint that the emperor somehow figured out “a new way”

Wrong…they’re just bleeding what had been built for decades. Draining the pool.

 

[flynnibus]

DL has more rides but shares the same problems as WDW, I think most people here are out east so they just don’t see DL enough to realize it.

There are many things they share... and then there are some things that are unique as well. The prior poster's comment was bunkus... but there is a glimmer of truth that SOME of the WDW problems aren't in DL... just like there are some that are true in reverse. But there is plenty of woes both share

 

[flynnibus]

That's thing. If go back to the 80's and 90's, while Disney was expensive, it was never to this point where it was more than most Americans spend on travel per year.

Don't agree... we were well off as kids and we still only would manage WDW trips every 3-4 years. And not because we didn't do vacations... but because WDW vacations were a big expensive deal.

We weren't the 3-4hr driving radius... nor were we FL residents. Which seemed to make up the bulk of the 'high frequency' visitors in the early days from what I can tell. The 'disney obsessed' families that would only vacation at Disney seemed to be a construct that developed later in the late 80s and 90s from my limited observations.

 

[flynnibus]

Honestly I think it's a bit more recent the change has occurred. I remember looking at this like 5 years ago, and yes, the base was different, but to get a similar size room and pick it, etc., it ended up very close. I just looked within the last week (cause we want to do another cruise), and Disney was around $1k more expensive than Royal. Couple hundred I'm sure we'd do Disney for the themed lounges/kids clubs. One grand has us reconsidering.

1k? So like 20% or less difference? Seems small fries in the grand scheme.

Last trip we were doing... I did the 'well lets see what the alts are offering' -- and really the gap wasn't big enough to sway me to 'go cheap'. It's not like we were going to get a cruise for 1k while Disney was 3k... It was like 20% difference in our situation. Just not enough savings to feel good about sacrificing the service quality to us.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I’m joining the conversation late, but it’s interesting that the first sense of “luxury” seems to prevail when you use the word as a countable noun. I would say that a Disney trip is a luxury (or among life’s luxuries), but I would never say it’s luxurious or a luxury experience.

Agree, and I don't think that's the vibe they were particularly going for. For all the talk of Disney moving into exclusivity, it's still the case that their crowds have roughly doubled from 1990 to today, from around 30 million to just under 60 million annually. That's with the addition of more international parks and other offerings like cruises to spread crowds out a little.

I understand the frustration with some of the post Covid cuts and the prices are astounding sometimes - but the argument still always boils down to "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded". I think Disney is just responding to demand and for the most part that has been overwhelming.

 

[Ayla]

We sailed on Holland America from Seattle to Alaska 14 days it was exceptional service and food --the crowd was mainly adults 45 and up ---a few well behaved kids.

Our cruise from Seattle to Alaska was mostly adults, too.