WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Even with Epic, Universal isn’t a week long vacation. Also, none of those ticket packages are a week long.

Let’s call it what it is: a way to massively upcharge for Epic tickets.

Maybe they should just charge an extra day’s fee for the last 3 hours of the day?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

On any given day in any given WDW park, what percentage of guests do you think:

1. Are there for the first time
Not that many
2. Have been before but over a year ago
A fair amount
3. Have AP's and plan on visiting several times during the year
A tad

Same for USO.

I'll wait............

What do I win?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And even what they do have coming - the new night time parade, TT 3.0, the Villains show, etc don't have opening dates so even if you wanted to plan something for the summer would be hard to set anything

If that’s “the standard”…it’s rather pathetic

 

[Laketravis]

What do I win?

I remember being told several years ago that the reason the majority of vehicles parked in WDW resort parking lots had Florida plates was because they were all rentals.

What do you think?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I remember being told several years ago that the reason the majority of vehicles parked in WDW resort parking lots had Florida plates was because they were all rentals.

What do you think?

Well that was true for a time…but that could have changed now

I used to know all these numbers…but it was 25 years ago - practically on a different planet - so any estimates I could make now are just guesses

As far as the rentals go…I do remember Florida in its genius started a new license plate in the 90’s and gave them only to rental cars at the time…so it was a greenlight to thieves to smash windows and pop trunks

 

[Laketravis]

Well that was true for a time…but that could have changed now

I used to know all these numbers…but it was 25 years ago - practically on a different planet - so any estimates I could make now are just guesses

As far as the rentals go…I do remember Florida in its genius started a new license plate in the 90’s and gave them only to rental cars at the time…so it was a greenlight to thieves to smash windows and pop trunks

Could it be that WDW is finding itself having to continuously raise prices because they are actually seeing fewer of those once in a lifetime and once every few years guests paying nearly full price and instead are seeing a margin-eroding larger number of guests with annual passes who's incremental spending is much lower?

It's common knowledge that DL is often swamped with locals because of it's proximity to a large population center. Yet the population of Florida is over 22 million and each one of them are bombarded with low-cost annual pass offers from WDW, who for years considered those resident passes as nothing but park filler and treated them as such.

Perhaps that strategy reached critical mass and much like a regional park with its predominantly local customers, FL residents are comprising more and more of the daily WDW resort/park population?

Just throwing it out there.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Could it be that WDW is finding itself having to continuously raise prices because they are actually seeing fewer of those once in a lifetime and once every few years guests paying nearly full price and instead are seeing a margin-eroding larger number of guests with annual passes who's incremental spending is much lower?

It's common knowledge that DL is often swamped with locals because of it's proximity to a large population center. Yet the population of Florida is over 22 million and each one of them are bombarded with low-cost annual pass offers from WDW, who for years considered those resident passes as nothing but park filler and treated them as such.

Perhaps that strategy reached critical mass and much like a regional park with its predominantly local customers, FL residents are comprising more and more of the daily WDW resort/park population?

Just throwing it out there.

Are you saying they’ve outpriced their market?

That being the American upper middle class?

Why yes…yes they have.
We tend to only think about on property stays around here…but even that was always just a part. You want to allocate $1000 for a family or 4 for the day from your hotel on central Florida parkway…drive in…and then be hit with line fees?

I can’t imagine how well that’s sitting…but I’m guessing not well.

And it’s not all Disneys fault. I noticed that grocery prices have risen about $2 on most items across the board…since January

The economics are just out of whack.
In that context…Disney is asking too much.

But there’s a very simple way to fix that: but bad management has eliminated that option.

 

[JoeCamel]

As far as the rentals go…I do remember Florida in its genius started a new license plate in the 90’s and gave them only to rental cars at the time…so it was a greenlight to thieves to smash windows and pop trunks

And much worse......

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

At their most modestly priced resort? You don’t say. A very quick search shows similar complaints about the All Stars, Pop, and Coronado.

I just stayed a night at Royal Pacific for the first time and those walls were also paper thin. They put us near the elevator and it was not a great nights sleep.

 

[JD80]

On any given day in any given WDW park, what percentage of guests do you think:

1. Are there for the first time
2. Have been before but over a year ago
3. Have AP's and plan on visiting several times during the year

Same for USO.

I'll wait............

No idea, why don't you ask someone who collects data for a living.

It probably fluctuates heavily based on time of year and the park.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I don't hear anyone complaining that it's expensive to visit several times a year. I can vouch for the fact that we either purchase AP's or we don't go at all. Our logic is that we can make multiple visits a year at a much lower cost per visit. My example at USO still stands but to your point I was also able to accomplish the same thing at WDW last November and December when I managed to book 5 nights each time at for around $115 a night. So basically we were onsite at a resort for 12 days with the ability to park hop each day for $1,150 ($49pp per day).

And that's not a unique outlier sort of situation, it's one that any passholder could have done.

Now, we are most certainly EXPOSED to pricing on every aspect of every visit that seems excessive to us so we are able to draw the conclusion that a trip to WDW can be very expensive, but that does not mean we participate in those added expenses.

ETA: I'll add that at this point the cost of WDW AP's and the lack of significant / plentiful room discounts against rising rack rates has reached a level where I don't think the numbers will work as well so we did not renew this year.

Also seems like a lot of other discounts and even if the AP discount is better, really have to compare just the incremental discount vs the Chase Visa discount or Disney+ discount or just general public.

If I can get 20% off with D+ and 25% off with AP, is getting an AP really with the extra 5% (I know availability is different so not always that simple, but still)

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I don't hear anyone complaining that it's expensive to visit several times a year. I can vouch for the fact that we either purchase AP's or we don't go at all. Our logic is that we can make multiple visits a year at a much lower cost per visit. My example at USO still stands but to your point I was also able to accomplish the same thing at WDW last November and December when I managed to book 5 nights each time at for around $115 a night. So basically we were onsite at a resort for 12 days with the ability to park hop each day for $1,150 ($49pp per day).

And that's not a unique outlier sort of situation, it's one that any passholder could have done.

Now, we are most certainly EXPOSED to pricing on every aspect of every visit that seems excessive to us so we are able to draw the conclusion that a trip to WDW can be very expensive, but that does not mean we participate in those added expenses.

ETA: I'll add that at this point the cost of WDW AP's and the lack of significant / plentiful room discounts against rising rack rates has reached a level where I don't think the numbers will work as well so we did not renew this year.

Same here. We go multiple times a year with an AP, not at all or just a resort hopping/DS stay.

 

[tissandtully]

I just stayed a night at Royal Pacific for the first time and those walls were also paper thin. They put us near the elevator and it was not a great nights sleep.

The Universal resort walls are so bad, even the huge windows in the Cabana Bay towers are not very soundproof, I kept being woken up at 3AM by the landscaping crews in Volcano Bay.

 

[Laketravis]

No idea, why don't you ask someone who collects data for a living.

It probably fluctuates heavily based on time of year and the park.

The question is for those claiming the number of guests who visit multiple times a year isn't considerable.

 

[Jrb1979]

The question is for those claiming the number of guests who visit multiple times a year isn't considerable.

IMO those who visit multiple times a year is probably a decent amount of day guests. Of course have an AP your likely to go a few times a year.

Disney relies on AP holders in down times to keep the parks busy. It's also been proven that AP holders tend to spend much less than those who come for a week from our of state.

None of this has much to do that average guests are finding Disney too expensive. Your average guest isn't likely an AP holder and only goes maybe once a year.

 

[Laketravis]

IMO those who visit multiple times a year is probably a decent amount of day guests. Of course have an AP your likely to go a few times a year.

Disney relies on AP holders in down times to keep the parks busy. It's also been proven that AP holders tend to spend much less than those who come for a week from our of state.

None of this has much to do that average guests are finding Disney too expensive. Your average guest isn't likely an AP holder and only goes maybe once a year.

That's exactly why I'm wondering if the number of those AP holders who spend less in the parks each day (and I'm most certainly one of them) are tipping the scales so much that WDW has to continue raising the prices for those who do spend in order to maintain margins.

They report that average per-guest spending in the parks is up, but as we all know "averages" are disproportionate. Guest spending isn't up for those like me who don't spend anything in the parks except for time, so it's REALLY up for those who do.

I contribute nothing financially when I'm in the parks 20-30-40 days a year, and each day I'm clicking those attendance numbers up because I'm park hopping to at least three. That means the other guests who pay for dated tickets and resort room and character meals and LL and souvenirs are bearing the burden.

The more of me, the more they hurt.

To take this to an extreme, consider what happened to Six Flags regional parks when they offered cheap annual park passes that could be combined with annual dining passes for less than $200 a person. Locals flooded the parks every opening day for lunch and dinner. The lines for food rivaled the Standby line for Tron (personally witnessed at both San Antonio and Arlington TX parks) and it could take upwards of an hour just to get out of the parking lot before park close.

None of those people spent anything while they were in the parks and Six Flags damn near went bankrupt before they suspended sales of those passes.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I'll add that at this point the cost of WDW AP's and the lack of significant / plentiful room discounts against rising rack rates has reached a level where I don't think the numbers will work as well so we did not renew this year.

We reached this point with DL this year, as out of state APs it’s finally reached the tipping point where APs don’t make financial sense for us anymore, at $1400 each the break every point is roughly 10 park days, we technically do that but only because we’re trying to get our moneys worth out of our AP, without them we’d only go 2-3 weekends a year, which is our new plan now that we didn’t renew.

We love DL but when you go too much you lose a lot of the magic, if we lived close enough to pop in for a few hours an AP would still be absolutely worth it but when it’s a long drive, requires hotels, is a couple full park days every trip, etc it almost becomes a chore just to get your moneys worth.

 

[Jrb1979]

That's exactly why I'm wondering if the number of those AP holders who spend less in the parks each day (and I'm most certainly one of them) are tipping the scales so much that WDW has to continue raising the prices for those who do spend in order to maintain margins.

They report that average per-guest spending in the parks is up, but as we all know "averages" are disproportionate. Guest spending isn't up for those like me who don't spend anything in the parks except for time, so it's REALLY up for those who do.

I contribute nothing financially when I'm in the parks 20-30-40 days a year, and each day I'm clicking those attendance numbers up because I'm park hopping to at least three. That means the other guests who pay for dated tickets and resort room and character meals and LL and souvenirs are bearing the burden.

The more of me, the more they hurt.

To take this to an extreme, consider what happened to Six Flags regional parks when they offered cheap annual park passes that could be combined with annual dining passes for less than $200 a person. Locals flooded the parks every opening day for lunch and dinner. The lines for food rivaled the Standby line for Tron (personally witnessed at both San Antonio and Arlington TX parks) and it could take upwards of an hour just to get out of the parking lot before park close.

None of those people spent anything while they were in the parks and Six Flags damn near went bankrupt before they suspended sales of those passes.

That's the problem they don't understand. Raising prices on those who do resort stays and have dates tickets pushes them away more than makes the guest spending go up.

What they should be doing is offer incentives for those who spend more at Disney. At the same time I would change the AP system altogether. I would raise prices to find that sweet spot where they fill parks on the quieter days of the year but not to the point they are the majority of guests in the park each day.

 

[Laketravis]

That's the problem they don't understand. Raising prices on those who do resort stays and have dates tickets pushes them away more than makes the guest spending go up.

And they are seeing that in their customer surveys in regards to the increasing number of guests who indicate they won't be coming back. I can't help but think they are very concerned about that because the bean counters know the less who come and spend the more they have to charge.

 

[Jrb1979]

And they are seeing that in their customer surveys in regards to the declining number of guests who indicate they won't be coming back. I can't help but think they are very concerned about that because the bean counters know the less who come and spend the more they have to charge.

They are definitely seeing it. Problem is their answer to that is to raise prices again. @lentesta has hinted at another price increase very soon.