WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[lentesta]

And Europe is on the more expensive end of that equation. Latin America is a far better deal, and is my preference.

A month in a 2BR Airbnb in downtown Oslo, Norway - one of the most expensive cities in the world - is less than the cost of 6 nights at the Grand Floridian during its cheapest week of the year. Just the hotel, no tickets, no food, no nothing else.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

This was another thing that the WSJ article didn't have room for, but deserves analsis.

They appear to have hit limits in 2018 with budget-conscious guests around hotel and sit-down food prices. Those have either tracked inflation or fallen slightly for the last ~6+ years.

Charging more for on-site Value hotels will just drive people offsite or to shorter trips. And we've already seen evidence of drops in sit-down dining numbers.

That's why Lightning Lane is so important to them. It's a new source of revenue that they can grow faster than inflation, and that's tailor-made for the richest guests.

feels like the group getting lost in the shuffle is those in the middle.

Those that are value conscious / on a tight budget can likeely still make a trip work and just not get LL, etc

those at the top have the $ and if they want to go will just spend more $ to ensure they have a great trip

but those in the middle that really valued what a WDW trip used to get - included Magical Express, included FP+, more value in the Dining Plan, etc. ... basically to do a trip how that group did in 2018 or prior got a lot more expensive and they might not have as much finance flexibility

 

[lentesta]

feels like the group getting lost in the shuffle is those in the middle.

Those that are value conscious / on a tight budget can likeely still make a trip work and just not get LL, etc

those at the top have the $ and if they want to go will just spend more $ to ensure they have a great trip

but those in the middle that really valued what a WDW trip used to get - included Magical Express, included FP+, more value in the Dining Plan, etc. ... basically to do a trip how that group did in 2018 or prior got a lot more expensive and they might not have as much finance flexibility

The middle class (households in the 3rd quintile of pre-tax income, around $71,000 in 2023 dollars) should spend around $1,992 on travel this year. That's for 2.5 people per household, which I rounded up to 2 adults and 1 child.

The can afford 2 days in Disney World if:

• They drive. It's probably 4 days in the car, round-trip, based on where Disney parks are located relative to the US population as a whole.
• They stay offsite (they can't afford on-site)
  
  
  

The thing that gets overlooked a lot is the transportation cost of getting to a park. That's going to eat up a big chunk of the family's budget.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The middle class (households in the 3rd quintile of pre-tax income, around $71,000 in 2023 dollars) should spend around $1,992 on travel this year. That's for 2.5 people per household, which I rounded up to 2 adults and 1 child.

The can afford 2 days in Disney World if:

• They drive. It's probably 4 days in the car, round-trip, based on where Disney parks are located relative to the US population as a whole.
• They stay offsite (they can't afford on-site)
  
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The thing that gets overlooked a lot is the transportation cost of getting to a park. That's going to eat up a big chunk of the family's budget.

I am thinking more the family in the 4th group - that group can still afford a decent trip as you outline but is now spending $383 on LL that they didn't have to in the past and other increases hit them harder

So in the past they could stay at a moderate instead of a value or do 4 or 5 days instead of 3. Or maybe flown and had magical express included, etc

I think that group that can still afford a trip - but not in the way they used to do Disney ... maybe just anecdotal but that is the group I am hearing from more about the rising costs lessening the magic and are either cutting back how often they go or taking a break

 

[Stripes]

The crazy thing is that they know they are worried about pricing people out yet continue to increase prices on tickets, rooms and LLs.

Since 2018, operating expenses for parks and resorts have increased 42% despite lower attendance compared to 2018. The parks and resorts operating margin has only increased from 22.02% in 2018 to 24.29% in 2024. The increased prices are mostly compensating for increased expenses.

 

[Disney Analyst]

For us, a two person household, no children, of course we don’t fully get hit by the added costs.

The big expense is the conversion from CAD to USD, hotels, flights, and food.

I still think a multi day ticket is a decent value, for full days of entertainment, rides, etc. particularly when I compare to the cost these days of a 2 hour concert.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

For us, a two person household, no children, of course we don’t fully get hit by the added costs.

The big expense is the conversion from CAD to USD, hotels, flights, and food.

I still think a multi day ticket is a decent value, for full days of entertainment, rides, etc. particularly when I compare to the cost these days of a 2 hour concert.

I know Len chose to compare to a football game, but Broadway is also something they use for comparison sake and we actually just went to a show last night and we got the tickets at a promotional rate and they were still about the same as a day at Disney (full price was over $200 a ticket and definitely not sitting front row or anything)

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

It's all about the value proposition. You can have high prices if guests feel like they got enough value for their dollar. The removal of Magical Express, airport check-in, free fast pass, and more has eroded that value and is felt most by the group the article identifies as feeling priced out.

This is the #1 factor for us, our travel budget increases every year but the parks are getting a smaller and smaller portion every year based on perceived value.

A month in a 2BR Airbnb in downtown Oslo, Norway - one of the most expensive cities in the world - is less than the cost of 6 nights at the Grand Floridian during its cheapest week of the year. Just the hotel, no tickets, no food, no nothing else.

This is another great example of perceived value, we went to Oslo in 2023 and stayed at the Grand Hotel, one of the nicest hotels in the city. We could have paid far less for a “normal” hotel in Oslo but we’re so used to paying Disney prices we felt it was an absolute bargain to get such an amazing and historic luxury hotel for what we’d pay for a moderate hotel at WDW.

When you are used to paying “Disney” prices everything else looks reasonable in comparison.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I know Len chose to compare to a football game, but Broadway is also something they use for comparison sake and we actually just went to a show last night and we got the tickets at a promotional rate and they were still about the same as a day at Disney (full price was over $200 a ticket and definitely not sitting front row or anything)

Yes. Very similar comp. Of course broadway and concerts often employ a lot of people, specifically from unions. So it’s not like I don’t understand the expense.

But compared to a full day at Disney…

I think about what my Disneyland 4 day park hoppers, with genie+, worked out to per day last June… compared to what I paid for Taylor Swift, at face value.

 

[surfsupdon]

Whether the guest is wealthy and pays for the trip upfront, or whether the guest needs to charge the entire trip and head into debt…afterwards both Guests are saying the trip was a rip off (felt not worth the cost) and word of mouth IS spreading.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So they are adding capacity to MK, and that makes sense but they are also just trying to catch up after going for a while without adding capacity in general

If they really wanted to add capacity to MK - there are solutions that could be implemented in 2-6 months that would have a huge impact.

 

[DisneyHead123]

It’s funny because I always assumed the “family from Colorado” was indeed a big focus for Disney. Reading this, it makes me wonder if the “Girl’s trip Drink Around World Showcase long weekend from Jersey” is an increasing focus. Families are already hit with a ton of costs like daycare, extracurriculars (I hear travel teams are like “take out a second mortgage” expensive), diapers, braces, 529, etc. They’re probably more likely to be homeowners and dealing with a mortgage and home repairs, I would imagine.

When I think about it, it does feel like some of what Disney has focused on in the past several years - festivals, vloggers / social media, “fandoms”, more (mild) thrill rides - might indicate a focus on adult travelers who are paying their own way. Going from a family of 4 to a party of 1 is a fast way to quarter costs and increase a guest’s disposable income.

 

[Stripes]

A month in a 2BR Airbnb in downtown Oslo, Norway - one of the most expensive cities in the world - is less than the cost of 6 nights at the Grand Floridian during its cheapest week of the year. Just the hotel, no tickets, no food, no nothing else.

This is the #1 factor for us, our travel budget increases every year but the parks are getting a smaller and smaller portion every year based on perceived value.


This is another great example of perceived value, we went to Oslo in 2023 and stayed at the Grand Hotel, one of the nicest hotels in the city. We could have paid far less for a “normal” hotel in Oslo but we’re so used to paying Disney prices we felt it was an absolute bargain to get such an amazing and historic luxury hotel for what we’d pay for a moderate hotel at WDW.

When you are used to paying “Disney” prices everything else looks reasonable in comparison.

And yet, in the heart of Europe and all the remarkable sights and experiences it has to offer, Disneyland Paris is the most visited tourist attraction on the continent by a significant margin. In my view, Disney offers a differentiated experience that can’t be compared.

 

[Stripes]

That's why Lightning Lane is so important to them. It's a new source of revenue that they can grow faster than inflation, and that's tailor-made for the richest guests.

It has also significantly increased the return on investment for new attractions which incentivizes the company to build more, which, in the long-term, increases value for those that would prefer not to spend on Lightning Lane.

 

[Laketravis]

You don't have to look beyond an $8.50 pretzel to see just how ridiculous WDW prices have become.

 

[tanc]

I think my main resort will be DL for now, I just like the food way more, the more walkable hotels, and the annual pass is so much cheaper for out of state people. Believe it or not, DL feels more of a vacation than WDW due to how much less traveling and transportation I need to take. The fact WDW offers no annual pass except the top tier for out of state is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

During the fact-checking process, someone from WSJ came back to me and said "Disney disputes your $3,800 number for a family in the 4th quintile of income. They say the cheapest vacation is $3,026 before food and transportation."

I was like "They actually said it out loud? Oh god. Print that."

They could have talked about the value they provide to their consumers. Or employees. Or stakeholders.

They could have talked about how they invest so much back into their parks.

They could have said literally anything...and chose to pick actual numbers and argue and say "you're wrong"

They need new PR people.

 

[Disstevefan1]

NEWS FLASH: A Disney vacation is very expensive.

 

[Touchdown]

People you need variety. I really like switching resorts when things get stale, it’s too bad annual passes are such a hack otherwise I would visit each big resort (WDW, DLR, USO) 1-2 times every year and rotate what time of the year I went. Doing the same thing gets old.

 

[Stripes]

You don't have to look beyond an $8.50 pretzel to see just how ridiculous WDW prices have become.

I’m believe it’s $8 for a Mickey Pretzel with cheese at MK. Auntie Anne’s original pretzel with cheese dip at my local mall is $7.

Not much difference there.