Workers want pay boost

[ford91exploder]

I'm pretty sure we'll always need some Epsilon minuses in the brave new world.


I'll take you one-step further and say we should repeal all income taxes in their entirety and go with the Fair Tax (national sales tax with a "prebate" to keep purchases up to the poverty level tax-free). Keeps us a "free market" economy, but positions us to compete better globally.

Best part about 'Fair Tax' system is EVERYBODY pays, Does not matter where money comes from you are still taxed on purchases - so the 'underground' economy effectively goes away.

 

[twebber55]

since compassion has been brought up so much in this thread I thought this was interesting...this is a quote from one of my favorite political personalities Larry Elder...im sure some will agree and disagree with this

"Compassion is not about making people dependent on government. Compassion is about encouraging personal responsibility, and getting people to understand that life is about making choices. Poverty does not cause crime. Crime causes poverty. Poverty does not cause a child to have a child. A child having a child causes poverty. Finishing high school is a choice. Not joining a gang is a choice. Not having a child until you have the maturity and the means to raise that child is a choice."

 

[ford91exploder]

since compassion has been brought up so much in this thread I thought this was interesting...this is a quote from one of my favorite political personalities Larry Elder...im sure some will agree and disagree with this

"Compassion is not about making people dependent on government. Compassion is about encouraging personal responsibility, and getting people to understand that life is about making choices. Poverty does not cause crime. Crime causes poverty. Poverty does not cause a child to have a child. A child having a child causes poverty. Finishing high school is a choice. Not joining a gang is a choice. Not having a child until you have the maturity and the means to raise that child is a choice."

Wholeheartedly agree with this one,

Go to a isolated village in Appalachia there is no crime to speak of - they may be poor relative to the rest of the country but there is none of the inner city poverty of spirit, You can see the same thing in isolated villages in India and Asia.

In these places good choices are encouraged the wisdom of elders is trusted, Have a child you cannot support and you will be an outcast in these communities, Not fawned over as the 'Compassion industry' does today. Bad choices DO have repercussions in the real world no matter what the Compassion industry says or does

 

[ford91exploder]

The special snowflake problem is why we have people majoring in dumb crap that doesn't lead to a job.

A parent's job is to make sure their child is a productive member of society. Part of that is instilling them the values that keep on the job training to the job at hand, not character traits.

Agree with your basic points - there are still things that you need to learn OUTSIDE of the family and these are what a job teaches you. You still need discipline, the willingness to work hard, respect, ability to learn from errors all the things good parenting teaches one.

One also needs to learn to be a cog in the machine and family life however good does not teach you that.

 

[Nubs70]

Instead of an across the board hourly raise, why not a profit sharing program with defined performance metrics? If performance metrics are achieved, then the hourly employee gets a quarterly payout. This way both the company and the workforce goals are aligned.

 

[RSoxNo1]

No, raise our children to be willing to adapt to the labor demands... not sit back and go 'waaaahhh... I want the jobs we USED to have' - and conditioning them that blue collar work is 'bad'. Which is what America did for the last 20 years as globalization undermined our manufacturing.. and instead of adapting, we tried to dig our heels in and artificially hold onto industries that could not compete on the new global market.

As long as we are the preachers of free trade... we need to accept we need to COMPETE on a 'the world is flat' market. Else, we should abandon free trade and instead shift to a more nationalistic approach of protecting our home industries.

You're not wrong, but I'm still all for not allowing certain people to reproduce.

 

[Agent_P]

Instead of an across the board hourly raise, why not a profit sharing program with defined performance metrics? If performance metrics are achieved, then the hourly employee gets a quarterly payout. This way both the company and the workforce goals are aligned.

They have that in place already but only for upper management. They used to have CM performance evaluations but never rewarded anyone with a good eval verus a bad one. But they used to have CM reward programs in place like perfect attendance, I Got an Idea program, and Energy and Time Savings suggestions but they got rid of them all.

 

[GoofGoof]

Haven't read all 22 pages, but it seems pretty simple to me. Workers want a pay increase...who doesn't. It would be breaking news if the headline said "WDW workers say no thanks to pay increase, feel they are paid enough already".

I'm assuming the debate is around whether they deserve a pay increase. Of course they do. Their cost of living isn't frozen so they should get a pay increase like anyone else should. I know that isn't how the world works and some people get no increase for years at their jobs or even worse get laid off, but just because some other people may be treated poorly by their employers doesn't mean everyone else should too. WDW is hugely profitable. They are not suffering at all as a business. Their last 10Q reported record crowds and increased per guest spending. The parks and resorts run on the hard work of CMs. Without their hard work it can't operate. The company should recognize this and reward employees for their hard work. We all expect top quality service from the mouse but people don't think the employees deserve a raise? Ticket and hotel prices will go up either way, but I would feel better about paying more if I knew a chunk of it was at least going to the people who are trying to make my vacation more enjoyable.

 

[Agent_P]

Haven't read all 22 pages, but it seems pretty simple to me. Workers want a pay increase...who doesn't. It would be breaking news if the headline said "WDW workers say no thanks to pay increase, feel they are paid enough already".

I'm assuming the debate is around whether they deserve a pay increase. Of course they do. Their cost of living isn't frozen so they should get a pay increase like anyone else should. I know that isn't how the world works and some people get no increase for years at their jobs or even worse get laid off, but just because some other people may be treated poorly by their employers doesn't mean everyone else should too. WDW is hugely profitable. They are not suffering at all as a business. Their last 10Q reported record crowds and increased per guest spending. The parks and resorts run on the hard work of CMs. Without their hard work it can't operate. The company should recognize this and reward employees for their hard work. We all expect top quality service from the mouse but people don't think the employees deserve a raise? Ticket and hotel prices will go up either way, but I would feel better about paying more if I knew a chunk of it was at least going to the people who are trying to make my vacation more enjoyable.

They will get a pay raise alright, probably just 3% as usual, unless they want a bonus instead of a percentage or maybe a combo of each(which is really stupid IMO) but either way it will be about 3%.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Hrm. Not locked yet. Interesting.

 

[Nubs70]

They have that in place already but only for upper management. They used to have CM performance evaluations but never rewarded anyone with a good eval verus a bad one. But they used to have CM reward programs in place like perfect attendance, I Got an Idea program, and Energy and Time Savings suggestions but they got rid of them all.

While upper management should have their own program based on more financial metrics, CM's should have their own program based on operational metrics.

If someone could forward the following info, I could build a program:

1. Total number of TDO employees below VP level.
2. Total WDW quarterly net revenue.
3. Average hours worked per week.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wholeheartedly agree with this one,

Go to a isolated village in Appalachia there is no crime to speak of - they may be poor relative to the rest of the country but there is none of the inner city poverty of spirit, You can see the same thing in isolated villages in India and Asia.

In these places good choices are encouraged the wisdom of elders is trusted, Have a child you cannot support and you will be an outcast in these communities, Not fawned over as the 'Compassion industry' does today. Bad choices DO have repercussions in the real world no matter what the Compassion industry says or does

This gets at a lot of what I see around me in my area. I see way too many people who consider assistance programs to be a key component of financial planning for their future. This is more so with young women and children. A stay at home mother is still a strong cultural norm. So while the incidents of children outside of marriage may be lower, young women are not encouraged enough to seek post-secondary education or strong job skills. A job is merely temporary until marriage which then means kids rather quickly, and I do not mean happy accidents or a "welfare queen." And while do not think we should completely ostracize, there probably should be some sort of cultural stigma to making decisions with the premise that welfare programs will fill the gap.

 

[Phil12]

Unfortunately all that will happen with 'Living Wage' legislation is companies will dump millions of workers from the payroll and replace them with machines. Sorry to burst your bubble but it's the truth.

Right now there is a company called Momentum Machines which is producing an automatic burger machine

So if you boost the minimum wage to a 'Living Wage' those workers WILL be replaced by capital in the form of machines like THIS which take no sick/vacation/personal time.

Burger King has used automated burger broilers since its inception (Insta-Burger King) in 1953. They have machines that will make an entire sandwich from start to finish. Many of the Burger King stores in the early 1960's had the automatic burger making machines on display so the public could watch as the machines created their individual burger.

 

[ford91exploder]

Haven't read all 22 pages, but it seems pretty simple to me. Workers want a pay increase...who doesn't. It would be breaking news if the headline said "WDW workers say no thanks to pay increase, feel they are paid enough already".

I'm assuming the debate is around whether they deserve a pay increase. Of course they do. Their cost of living isn't frozen so they should get a pay increase like anyone else should. I know that isn't how the world works and some people get no increase for years at their jobs or even worse get laid off, but just because some other people may be treated poorly by their employers doesn't mean everyone else should too. WDW is hugely profitable. They are not suffering at all as a business. Their last 10Q reported record crowds and increased per guest spending. The parks and resorts run on the hard work of CMs. Without their hard work it can't operate. The company should recognize this and reward employees for their hard work. We all expect top quality service from the mouse but people don't think the employees deserve a raise? Ticket and hotel prices will go up either way, but I would feel better about paying more if I knew a chunk of it was at least going to the people who are trying to make my vacation more enjoyable.

There is NO QUESTION that CM's should receive a raise - especially in light of the increased workloads brought on by MM+,

Most of this thread has been on how at a tax and policy level do we increase take home pay for everyone not just Disney CM's and how do we break the cycle of corporate welfare where full time employees of some companies are eligible for public assistance - in effect the taxpayer is subsidizing the company's operations which is simply WRONG.

 

[GoofGoof]

There is NO QUESTION that CM's should receive a raise - especially in light of the increased workloads brought on by MM+,

Most of this thread has been on how at a tax and policy level do we increase take home pay for everyone not just Disney CM's and how do we break the cycle of corporate welfare where full time employees of some companies are eligible for public assistance - in effect the taxpayer is subsidizing the company's operations which is simply WRONG.

This gets a little into politics, but I'll throw in my 2 cents before the lock. Well you can raise minimum wage to a point, but that increases the cost of every product that uses low income workers. In an oversimplified example the CM who gets bumped up to $10 or $15 an hour now would have the disposable income to go out to a sit down dinner to celebrate his or her raise. Only problem is that $9.99 burger and fries at the local chain restaurant he wanted to order now costs $25. Disappointed, he heads to McDonalds to get some of his usual fast food but the value meals are all now over $10 too. Certain parts of the economy would be minimally impacted, but tourism and restaurants are some of the biggest that would be impacted. I'm not saying I'm against increasing the minimum wage, just that it comes with a cost. IMHO it is worth that cost if it means getting people off of government assistance and helping them to stand on their own 2 feet. For me personally it would mean doing without some things that I would no longer be able to afford, but for the greater good it would be worth it.

 

[ford91exploder]

This gets a little into politics, but I'll throw in my 2 cents before the lock. Well you can raise minimum wage to a point, but that increases the cost of every product that uses low income workers. In an oversimplified example the CM who gets bumped up to $10 or $15 an hour now would have the disposable income to go out to a sit down dinner to celebrate his or her raise. Only problem is that $9.99 burger and fries at the local chain restaurant he wanted to order now costs $25. Disappointed, he heads to McDonalds to get some of his usual fast food but the value meals are all now over $10 too. Certain parts of the economy would be minimally impacted, but tourism and restaurants are some of the biggest that would be impacted. I'm not saying I'm against increasing the minimum wage, just that it comes with a cost. IMHO it is worth that cost if it means getting people off of government assistance and helping them to stand on their own 2 feet. For me personally it would mean doing without some things that I would no longer be able to afford, but for the greater good it would be worth it.

In the US we need a serious discussion on wages and tax policy. I'm not going to get all political here but we have a broken tax system and to compensate we have both corporate and individual welfare systems, And both are corrosive to the social contract.

 

[GoofGoof]

In the US we need a serious discussion on wages and tax policy. I'm not going to get all political here but we have a broken tax system and to compensate we have both corporate and individual welfare systems, And both are corrosive to the social contract.

Unfortunately, we have a better shot at a monorail expansion and a 5th gate at WDW than that actually happening.

 

[jaklgreen]

This gets a little into politics, but I'll throw in my 2 cents before the lock. Well you can raise minimum wage to a point, but that increases the cost of every product that uses low income workers. In an oversimplified example the CM who gets bumped up to $10 or $15 an hour now would have the disposable income to go out to a sit down dinner to celebrate his or her raise. Only problem is that $9.99 burger and fries at the local chain restaurant he wanted to order now costs $25. Disappointed, he heads to McDonalds to get some of his usual fast food but the value meals are all now over $10 too. Certain parts of the economy would be minimally impacted, but tourism and restaurants are some of the biggest that would be impacted. I'm not saying I'm against increasing the minimum wage, just that it comes with a cost. IMHO it is worth that cost if it means getting people off of government assistance and helping them to stand on their own 2 feet. For me personally it would mean doing without some things that I would no longer be able to afford, but for the greater good it would be worth it.

That is a big exaggeration. I posted earlier that 20 years ago when things were much cheaper we were making $8-$9 hour to be a cashier at a grocery store. Telemarketing was big here and they started people at $12/hour. The only people who were paid minimum wage where the high school kids at their first jobs but after a year or two they were making more. Now minimum wage seems to be the set amount no matter how long you do your job. Minimum wage should be a starting point when you are new to the job, not if you have been doing something for a few years and do a better/faster job then a person just starting. We all know that most companies(like you said McDonalds) make plenty of profit. It is sickening how the CEO and other executives make millions of dollars while the workers that are making you that money struggle. How many millions do they need for goodness sakes? In the city I live in, the last mayor instituted a food service "tax". It was an extra fee that went to the city when people ate out at all restaurants. The "tax" adds about 25 cents for every $10 spent. The restaurant owners argued that the extra cost would discourage people from eating out, but that never happened. The city rakes in millions of extra dollars a year for it. My point is, even if restaurants have to raise prices a bit to pay their employees more, I don't think it will stop people from eating out. Your price increases are a gross exaggeration.

 

[GoofGoof]

That is a big exaggeration. I posted earlier that 20 years ago when things were much cheaper we were making $8-$9 hour to be a cashier at a grocery store. Telemarketing was big here and they started people at $12/hour. The only people who were paid minimum wage where the high school kids at their first jobs but after a year or two they were making more. Now minimum wage seems to be the set amount no matter how long you do your job. Minimum wage should be a starting point when you are new to the job, not if you have been doing something for a few years and do a better/faster job then a person just starting. We all know that most companies(like you said McDonalds) make plenty of profit. It is sickening how the CEO and other executives make millions of dollars while the workers that are making you that money struggle. How many millions do they need for goodness sakes? In the city I live in, the last mayor instituted a food service "tax". It was an extra fee that went to the city when people ate out at all restaurants. The "tax" adds about 25 cents for every $10 spent. The restaurant owners argued that the extra cost would discourage people from eating out, but that never happened. The city rakes in millions of extra dollars a year for it. My point is, even if restaurants have to raise prices a bit to pay their employees more, I don't think it will stop people from eating out. Your price increases are a gross exaggeration.

I did say it was oversimplified and perhaps it is exaggerated, but there has to be an increase in prices too. For a company like McDonalds that employs over a million people worldwide you can't just reduce executive pay and have enough left over to increase the workers wages. If the CEO made $15 or $30 million last year and you took all of that pay and spread it around it comes to a very small dollar amount per employee. They could take a hit on their profits and not raise prices. Of course then you are hurting the shareholders. People's 401Ks and pensions would take a hit if a bunch of corporations agreed to forgo profits to raise employees wages. There has to be an increase in the cost of the product sold. It can't all be made up by executive compensation and reduced profits.

As I said in my original post, I am personally OK with the types of price increases that would be necessary to increase wages in a meaningful way, but it will have an impact on the cost of some products. For some people that could mean not eating out.

 

[Club34]

Where did the wealth that was created by exponentially higher American worker productivity go over the past few decades?

The "unfair" tax system, who writes those rules? Are there common denominators with those folks?

I guess we could starve people out to "teach" them a lesson about "responsibility" if thats the route you want to take.