Workers want pay boost

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope that is not a jab at me and small business owners. While I agree if you are referring to corporate america but those of us in the "cottage industries" certainly do not fit that description. I have been at it for 15 years and if I have vast wealth then it must be in some bank account I am not aware of.

My employees have benefits I myself cannot afford and my wife works a regular salaried position for the bennies in the family.
No, no, not a jab a small business owners. I was referring these multi billion $$$ corps that pay their executives $40 million/year, and then get apoplectic when someone suggests that they should actually pay their employees.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
But is there even an existing housing stock that exists between motels (which really are not cheap) and a cheap apartment? That's been a big part of a problem in central Florida (which existed even when Disney more) . Massive population growth means housing has to be built new, so there is no older housing that loses its ability to command a premium. A significant jump in people able to afford cheap apartments will only drive up rents. A real solution is, unfortunately, going to have to be a slow, coordinated process that deals with many areas.
That's a good point. Truthfully, I am not very familiar with the housing market near WDW. In my area there are some former motels in run down areas that have been converted to essentially budget apartments. People living there are mainly people who can't afford first and last months rent in advance and probably a criminal element as well. I was assuming some of that might be going on at WDW too since it would be tough to afford rent on $8/hr. That comes out to about $1,000 a month after taxes. After paying for food, gas and necessities needed to live that doesn't leave much for rent. I guess if you have a few roommates it could work, but that gets tough if you have a family. Maybe Disney should consider stepping in and building housing developments for its employees. Maybe dorm style buildings that could house a lot of people inexpensively. They should subcontract the construction though...we all know how much things they build end up costing.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Maybe Disney should consider stepping in and building housing developments for its employees. Maybe dorm style buildings that could house a lot of people inexpensively. They should subcontract the construction though...we all know how much things they build end up costing.
I was thinking about this and I think part of the reason we don't see commercial developers try more to build cheaper apartments is that there is probably a good chance the builder would be called a slum lord and face obstacles from neighbors, planning commission, etc. based on that accusation. I also wonder if low interest loans, through something like Disney's credit union, could be designed to help cover the up front costs of renting an apartment, but that too could probably raise more negative publicity.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I was thinking about this and I think part of the reason we don't see commercial developers try more to build cheaper apartments is that there is probably a good chance the builder would be called a slum lord and face obstacles from neighbors, planning commission, etc. based on that accusation. I also wonder if low interest loans, through something like Disney's credit union, could be designed to help cover the up front costs of renting an apartment, but that too could probably raise more negative publicity.
They have plenty of land. Just build a complex on property somewhere. Having affordable living would also lead to more employee loyalty and possibly better productivity. Fear of losing your job and getting kicked out of your apartment too could be a big motivator. I am way out of my league here and have no clue about the logistics of actually doing this, but it seems there is a need and even if Disney just broke even it would be a benefit to recruiting and employee retention. At those income levels some of the people may even qualify for government assistance. Disney could build a giant section 8 housing project. Imagine the bad press that would bring.
 

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
No, no, not a jab a small business owners. I was referring these multi billion $$$ corps that pay their executives $40 million/year, and then get apoplectic when someone suggests that they should actually pay their employees.

Gotcha! Sorry...I get kinda thin skinned on the whole "Oh you own your own business...you must be on easy street" attitude I get so often times. Didn't mean to take it to the next level on ya...thanks!
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Not saying I agree with these current wages, but wages in other hospitality/service industries are about the same as what WDW seems to be paying (at least in low cost of living states like Florida, Texas, etc.). So I don't think this is a Disney problem (if you think it is a problem at all).
 

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
Not saying I agree with these current wages, but wages in other hospitality/service industries are about the same as what WDW seems to be paying (at least in low cost of living states like Florida, Texas, etc.). So I don't think this is a Disney problem (if you think it is a problem at all).

I guess I consider it a disparity when ticket prices continue to skyrocket and WDO is considered (by many) to be the pinnacle of the hospitality/family entertainment industry yet they pay their employees in a way that makes many of them surly towards their responsibilities.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
They have plenty of land. Just build a complex on property somewhere. Having affordable living would also lead to more employee loyalty and possibly better productivity. Fear of losing your job and getting kicked out of your apartment too could be a big motivator. I am way out of my league here and have no clue about the logistics of actually doing this, but it seems there is a need and even if Disney just broke even it would be a benefit to recruiting and employee retention. At those income levels some of the people may even qualify for government assistance. Disney could build a giant section 8 housing project. Imagine the bad press that would bring.
These types of ideas are what I think would get the slum lord title. The housing would be smaller and cheaper. It would be Disney admitting they exploit. Oddly enough though, it would be a return to why there is so much land at Walt Disney World.
 

Yensid1974

Well-Known Member
I have to take Disney's side in this battle. It is far from the PR nightmare a business like Wal-Mart is facing. Look at the benefits CM's have

Discounts at select Walt Disney World and Disneyland dining, merchandise, and recreation locations
Discounts at select Walt Disney World and Disneyland Resort hotels
Disney Cruise Line Discounts
Discounts at participating local businesses
Theme park admission for cast members
Cast member exclusive sneak previews of new attractions, parks, and resorts
Wellness programs
On-site health fairs and seminars
Life-management services
Cast member clubs, instructional programs, and sports leagues
Credit union membership

The compensation CMs get is much more than just their hourly wage and it is a much better working environment than almost anywhere else a person can find. That is why so many people all over the world want to work there. There are plenty of college interns willing to take the place of any disgruntled entry level employee.


You really have no idea what you are talking about. Yes most of those exist, but what truly is the usefulness of some of them when you don't have any expendable income to begin with? I am lucky in that my wife makes a decent living so I can live out my dream of working there, which makes me lucky. The big issue, as others have pointed out, is that the company is LOSING high quality CM's constantly to other companies instead of retaining them and allowing them to progress into higher and higher levels of the company. From a stockholder perspective, that should be alarming. I know as WDW1974 has said, the stockholders only care about what they are getting from the company now and have no concern about tomorrow. This is truly one of those circumstances where the old adage "you get what you pay for" rings true. So, for those who think they need not pay more for frontline CM's, just remember that the next time you have an unsatisfactory experience with a CM that has replaced a much better one that moved on to greener pastures.
 

Belowthesurface

Well-Known Member
They have plenty of land. Just build a complex on property somewhere. Having affordable living would also lead to more employee loyalty and possibly better productivity. Fear of losing your job and getting kicked out of your apartment too could be a big motivator. I am way out of my league here and have no clue about the logistics of actually doing this, but it seems there is a need and even if Disney just broke even it would be a benefit to recruiting and employee retention. At those income levels some of the people may even qualify for government assistance. Disney could build a giant section 8 housing project. Imagine the bad press that would bring.

College Program....
 

Tonka's Skipper

Well-Known Member
Ford's strategy really only worked because he was the outlier. It is how he created demand for his work carried out on his terms.

Ok............a problem with that? Not to mention his methods were copied and work in many industries!

He may not have been a nice person, but he was a very successful manufacturing engineer and marketer!

AKK
 

wogwog

Well-Known Member
College Program....
What @Belowthesurface replied is so true. I have many neighbors and friends working at WDW at various levels of authority. This is what I have learned from them. WDW does house the college program employees from US and overseas colleges now. Dorm like living in converted apartment complexes near DT Disney. Disney pays them the lowest legal rate I am sure and packs probably two to a bedroom and charges them rent. Next time you are at the World start reading name tags. If it has a US university below the name or a foreign city like Shanghai or London the cast member is in the program. I believe the time with WDW is as little as three months and at the most a year. That is who WDW thinks can give you multiple Star service. Some of them struggle with conversational English and our culture. They are more than a small group. I will guess several hundred at nearly all time across WDW. A good experience for them and fun while they are here but not the best in three months at knowing the business. Then replaced by another student when they rotate.

As for the local front line cast the next step up the ladder will pay them a big $1.50 an hour. They are the cast called coordinators, not managers, who wear the tan costume at MK. For that bump in pay they lose control of their ability to choose days off and hours. They have a lot of responsibility for the $1.50. Only four of them I hear are in charge of a parade at MK like MSEP with the hordes of us guests to control and satisfy. They will have the support usually of two managers one step above them making a bit more money. The hours and work days are changed often at the needs of Management. Not conducive to a married person especially with kids.
 

Belowthesurface

Well-Known Member
What @Belowthesurface replied is so true. I have many neighbors and friends working at WDW at various levels of authority. This is what I have learned from them. WDW does house the college program employees from US and overseas colleges now. Dorm like living in converted apartment complexes near DT Disney. Disney pays them the lowest legal rate I am sure and packs probably two to a bedroom and charges them rent. Next time you are at the World start reading name tags. If it has a US university below the name or a foreign city like Shanghai or London the cast member is in the program. I believe the time with WDW is as little as three months and at the most a year. That is who WDW thinks can give you multiple Star service. Some of them struggle with conversational English and our culture. They are more than a small group. I will guess several hundred at nearly all time across WDW. A good experience for them and fun while they are here but not the best in three months at knowing the business. Then replaced by another student when they rotate.

As for the local front line cast the next step up the ladder will pay them a big $1.50 an hour. They are the cast called coordinators, not managers, who wear the tan costume at MK. For that bump in pay they lose control of their ability to choose days off and hours. They have a lot of responsibility for the $1.50. Only four of them I hear are in charge of a parade at MK like MSEP with the hordes of us guests to control and satisfy. They will have the support usually of two managers one step above them making a bit more money. The hours and work days are changed often at the needs of Management. Not conducive to a married person especially with kids.


Yes.

Try speaking to an International College Program student from China who is too shy or scared to interact with you or do anything to stop a ride when safety is at stake.
 

Lord_Vader

Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
Just based on experience minimum wage should be raised but only a small bit but based on service there should be an alternative minumum wage that progresses to a "livable wage" based on hours and term of service. For example if you work 20hr weeks for a year (approx. 1040 hours) there should be a mandate that your new minimum wage is 5% higher, if you are a full-time employee working 40 hours per week maybe a 10% raise until you reach a cap of 30% over minimum wage. This would provide incentive to an employee who does gain experience (and typically speed/expertise provides the employer a higher productivity value as well) to stay with the same employer and not constantly jump from job to job.

Full time: 0-1yrs, $9.50hr
1-2yrs, $10.45hr
2-3yrs, $11.50hr
3-4yrs, $12.65hr

In the example above, the employees have a livable wage within a few years of employement and an incentive to stay with their current employer. The only downside is that there are many employers who would simple look to make an employee's work life difficult to force them to quit if they do not value the employee enoguh to support the extra couple $$$ per hour.

When people work in minimum wage jobs they generally have little to no financial incentive to work harder because there are a lot of available jobs that are usually easy to get. If an employer pays slightly above the norm, or provides good raises to the employees that perform they typically stay and provide enhanced value to an employer which in return should enable the employee to enjoy some of the return. Many minimum wage employeers have ZERO incentive to give any raises because there is a very large pool of labor just waiting for a job resulting in little or no business impact if an employee leaves.

Locally, typical retailers (NOT WAL-MART) pay $11-$15/hr here. My daugher, a junior in college, just took a brand new part time job at close to $14/hr at a retail clothing store. The reason the employer pays so well, they want more driven employees willing to work a bit harder and provide a much more stable work force than most. It is increadibly hard to get a job at her store, with close to 300 employees they turn over close to 30 a year or less on average they can be very selective when hiring.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Just based on experience minimum wage should be raised but only a small bit but based on service there should be an alternative minumum wage that progresses to a "livable wage" based on hours and term of service. For example if you work 20hr weeks for a year (approx. 1040 hours) there should be a mandate that your new minimum wage is 5% higher, if you are a full-time employee working 40 hours per week maybe a 10% raise until you reach a cap of 30% over minimum wage. This would provide incentive to an employee who does gain experience (and typically speed/expertise provides the employer a higher productivity value as well) to stay with the same employer and not constantly jump from job to job.

Full time: 0-1yrs, $9.50hr
1-2yrs, $10.45hr
2-3yrs, $11.50hr
3-4yrs, $12.65hr

In the example above, the employees have a livable wage within a few years of employement and an incentive to stay with their current employer. The only downside is that there are many employers who would simple look to make an employee's work life difficult to force them to quit if they do not value the employee enoguh to support the extra couple $$$ per hour.

When people work in minimum wage jobs they generally have little to no financial incentive to work harder because there are a lot of available jobs that are usually easy to get. If an employer pays slightly above the norm, or provides good raises to the employees that perform they typically stay and provide enhanced value to an employer which in return should enable the employee to enjoy some of the return. Many minimum wage employeers have ZERO incentive to give any raises because there is a very large pool of labor just waiting for a job resulting in little or no business impact if an employee leaves.

Locally, typical retailers (NOT WAL-MART) pay $11-$15/hr here. My daugher, a junior in college, just took a brand new part time job at close to $14/hr at a retail clothing store. The reason the employer pays so well, they want more driven employees willing to work a bit harder and provide a much more stable work force than most. It is increadibly hard to get a job at her store, with close to 300 employees they turn over close to 30 a year or less on average they can be very selective when hiring.
That's an interesting plan. It definitely has some merit. The only problem is you would be indirectly providing an incentive for employers to fire workers after a year or two of service to avoid paying the increased wage. It's the concept of someone pricing themselves out of a job. If I can hire someone else to do the job for 30% less than you there is a lot of incentive for me to do just that. In an ideal world the top performers would stay at the increased wage and be worth the extra expense and the bottom rung of employees would be let go, but that wouldn't always be the case. If the company has a large number of minimum wage employees it may also be hard to quantify who they want to keep and who should be let go. Could lead to a policy of just letting everyone go after a year or 2.

For a place like Disney this type of plan could work well. You would create an even more loyal employee base and paying longer term employees significantly more than your competition should reduce turnover. The only alteration I would consider is a slightly more gradual increase, say over 5 to 7 years. This way the expense change is more smoothed out and after 5 years you should have a good sense of who is worth keeping.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Just based on experience minimum wage should be raised but only a small bit but based on service there should be an alternative minumum wage that progresses to a "livable wage" based on hours and term of service. For example if you work 20hr weeks for a year (approx. 1040 hours) there should be a mandate that your new minimum wage is 5% higher, if you are a full-time employee working 40 hours per week maybe a 10% raise until you reach a cap of 30% over minimum wage. This would provide incentive to an employee who does gain experience (and typically speed/expertise provides the employer a higher productivity value as well) to stay with the same employer and not constantly jump from job to job.

Full time: 0-1yrs, $9.50hr
1-2yrs, $10.45hr
2-3yrs, $11.50hr
3-4yrs, $12.65hr

In the example above, the employees have a livable wage within a few years of employement and an incentive to stay with their current employer. The only downside is that there are many employers who would simple look to make an employee's work life difficult to force them to quit if they do not value the employee enoguh to support the extra couple $$$ per hour.

When people work in minimum wage jobs they generally have little to no financial incentive to work harder because there are a lot of available jobs that are usually easy to get. If an employer pays slightly above the norm, or provides good raises to the employees that perform they typically stay and provide enhanced value to an employer which in return should enable the employee to enjoy some of the return. Many minimum wage employeers have ZERO incentive to give any raises because there is a very large pool of labor just waiting for a job resulting in little or no business impact if an employee leaves.

Locally, typical retailers (NOT WAL-MART) pay $11-$15/hr here. My daugher, a junior in college, just took a brand new part time job at close to $14/hr at a retail clothing store. The reason the employer pays so well, they want more driven employees willing to work a bit harder and provide a much more stable work force than most. It is increadibly hard to get a job at her store, with close to 300 employees they turn over close to 30 a year or less on average they can be very selective when hiring.
A big hole in this is employers could just not move employees up to full time status, something we are seeing right now in regards to health insurance coverage. Two people working 20 hours per week would be cheaper than one person working 40 hours per week. Work could even be split between different companies. I personally do not think the government should be playing such a level of social engineering. If companies want more loyal employees with lower turnover they have the resources and means, many of which you have mentioned, to create such a work environment. The regulations necessary to enforce such a scheme just incentivizes the worst aspects of the union system where duration, not skill, is rewarded.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Yes if Disney provided the housing there is the risk of being called a slum lord, But in reality it would be no different than the old Borscht Belt hotels or grand hotels in Europe where dormitories are provided for the staff, Hospitals in the US used to have Doctors and Nurses residences and it was considered a benefit.

If Disney provided a dormitory and cafeteria service for their CM's and charged a nominal rent (can't be FREE otherwise it's human nature not to respect it) I think it would be a great benefit for MANY employee's especially those just starting out.

Even in Japan many companies provide Dormitories for their lowest level employees it fosters a LOYAL workforce and helps them by lowering their cost of living.

Yes we do have the stigma of the appalachian 'company towns' but there is no reason Disney could not do this RIGHT and in the long run it probably would be CHEAPER for them.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I was thinking about this and I think part of the reason we don't see commercial developers try more to build cheaper apartments is that there is probably a good chance the builder would be called a slum lord and face obstacles from neighbors, planning commission, etc. based on that accusation. I also wonder if low interest loans, through something like Disney's credit union, could be designed to help cover the up front costs of renting an apartment, but that too could probably raise more negative publicity.

Disney certainly is big enough to support a 'company town' but let's be real... In today's me me me society expecting everything, who would be willing to live in a home in homogenized housing like a company town and not still about it? Or suing over something petty?

The old company towns were often slanted towards the company but at least people were satisfied with a shot at a reasonable stable life
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
Yes if Disney provided the housing there is the risk of being called a slum lord, But in reality it would be no different than the old Borscht Belt hotels or grand hotels in Europe where dormitories are provided for the staff, Hospitals in the US used to have Doctors and Nurses residences and it was considered a benefit.

If Disney provided a dormitory and cafeteria service for their CM's and charged a nominal rent (can't be FREE otherwise it's human nature not to respect it) I think it would be a great benefit for MANY employee's especially those just starting out.

Even in Japan many companies provide Dormitories for their lowest level employees it fosters a LOYAL workforce and helps them by lowering their cost of living.

Yes we do have the stigma of the appalachian 'company towns' but there is no reason Disney could not do this RIGHT and in the long run it probably would be CHEAPER for them.

This strikes me as the sort of thing that the Disney company could once have done very well. Just as Disneyland stood in stark contrast to a dirty, even sleazy amusement park - a Disney housing development ("in the spirit of Epcot") even for lower income groups could demonstrate how things should be done. Someplace Disney CM's would be proud to call home, and both they and Disney would benefit financially.

Note I said something Disney could once have done. I have far less confidence in the modern Walt Disney Company that it would turn out nearly as well. Still, I like the idea.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom