Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

[BubbaQuest]

Thanks for starting this thread. I can't believe Disney is so short sighted that they can't see beyond shoving a Star Wars land into the Happiest Place on Earth.

I don't have a problem with attractions based on IP. I understand it brings in the crowds. Disneyland opened with a Fantasyland based on movies and Fess Parker selling Davy Crockett hats in Frontierland. However Disneyland was much more than IPs. It wasn't just MovieOnlyLand or CrockettLand. It had entire lands dedicated to nothing but fantasy and imagination. I didn't want to be Mr Johnson, Director of Operations, I wanted to be my own scientist or astronaut or adventurer. Fantasyland wasn't about one princess, it was about all princesses.

Again, I'm not against movie themes in parks. I do think the Cars movie theme for the Radiator Springs Racers attraction makes the ride a more interesting ride. However, I think theming the entire land to one movie franchise actually hurts it more than helps it. The Junkyard Jamboree and House of Body Art both feel forced and awkward to me because of the single IP approach. Imagine the possibilities if this would have been a land dedicated to the Southwest desert (that happens to have a Cars based attraction) instead of limiting everything in the land to one IP and one thought.

What really hurts me most though, is that if Disney can't see that Star Wars/Marvel is a PERFECT opportunity for a new dedicated theme park then I truly fear for the future of Disneyland.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

People come to Disneyland to ride rides. That's just the way it is. Yes, it'll be pretty, buy people will need things to do there.
You're comparing parks to one single land...

Come on, you're being intellectually dishonest. I actually agree with the broader argument you're making in this thread, but the "only two rides" argument is a terrible one.

MK Frontierland - Two rides, still lots to do (Country Bears, shooting gallery, food, band music, Tom Sawyer Island)
AK Africa - One ride, still lots to do (FoLK, Pangani, Rafiki's)
HS Sunset Boulevard - Two rides, still a handful of other things to do (Beauty and the Beast, Fantasmic, food)
Epcot World Showcase - Two rides, probably an entire day of things to do

You act like two rides is an abnormally small number for a Disney land. It's not. More than two rides would be the exception, not the rule. The ADD generation (and their offspring now that they're having kids) needs to slow down and figure out that there's more to themed entertainment than RIDES RIDES RIDES!

 

[BrianLo]

I feel Disneyland's greater issue is not number of rides, it is space. They've historically piled more and more rides on top of one another without the accompanying increase in guest space.

I'm nervous, but excited to see how such a radical expansion to the park boundaries will effect operations. Sadly this never, ever would have happened without a brand to force it.

The execution will make or break this project for me, far more than the theory of it.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Come on, you're being intellectually dishonest. I actually agree with the broader argument you're making in this thread, but the "only two rides" argument is a terrible one.

MK Frontierland - Two rides, still lots to do (Country Bears, shooting gallery, food, band music, Tom Sawyer Island)
AK Africa - One ride, still lots to do (FoLK, Pangani, Rafiki's)
HS Sunset Boulevard - Two rides, still a handful of other things to do (Beauty and the Beast, Fantasmic, food)
Epcot World Showcase - Two rides, probably an entire day of things to do

You act like two rides is an abnormally small number for a Disney land. It's not. More than two rides would be the exception, not the rule. The ADD generation (and their offspring now that they're having kids) needs to slow down and figure out that there's more to themed entertainment than RIDES RIDES RIDES!

It's not an argument, it's simply an observation that was made, and I would honestly like to keep this conversation mainly about Disneyland and not the WDW parks.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I agree that two rides for the acreage they are using isn't ideal, and another reason why I wish they would relocate Star Tours to the new land. However, on the flip side, I think it would be a huge mistake to build new rides on the same scale as the Fantasyland attractions.

I agree on not having short Fantasyland style rides, but there are ways to use space better than they are. Autotopia using the roof of the Subs show building is an example of using space wisely. Indy was originally conceived as 2 rides using a lot of the same show scenes. One of the great things about Disneyland is how layered it is. They were short on space, but turned a disadvantage into an advantage by building experiences on top of each other and so they interact with one another. If you forced WDI to use only say 7 Acers instead of 14 and get the same result in terms of attractions and space, they would have had to get creative and perhaps designed and equal and possibly superior experience.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Thanks for starting this thread. I can't believe Disney is so short sighted that they can't see beyond shoving a Star Wars land into the Happiest Place on Earth.

I don't have a problem with attractions based on IP. I understand it brings in the crowds. Disneyland opened with a Fantasyland based on movies and Fess Parker selling Davy Crockett hats in Frontierland. However Disneyland was much more than IPs. It wasn't just MovieOnlyLand or CrockettLand. It had entire lands dedicated to nothing but fantasy and imagination. I didn't want to be Mr Johnson, Director of Operations, I wanted to be my own scientist or astronaut or adventurer. Fantasyland wasn't about one princess, it was about all princesses.

Again, I'm not against movie themes in parks. I do think the Cars movie theme for the Radiator Springs Racers attraction makes the ride a more interesting ride. However, I think theming the entire land to one movie franchise actually hurts it more than helps it. The Junkyard Jamboree and House of Body Art both feel forced and awkward to me because of the single IP approach. Imagine the possibilities if this would have been a land dedicated to the Southwest desert (that happens to have a Cars based attraction) instead of limiting everything in the land to one IP and one thought.

What really hurts me most though, is that if Disney can't see that Star Wars/Marvel is a PERFECT opportunity for a new dedicated theme park then I truly fear for the future of Disneyland.

Did you ever see the plans for what was originally supposed to be what Cars Land is, before theming it to the movie Cars was pitched? Those plans would have had a longer-lasting effect. If I remember correctly, the land was themed to California car culture, and it was going to have a drive-in, or something like that, a car ride... I think they were planning to do an attraction featuring Goofy going on a road trip. The plans were pretty cool and the concept could have been expanded, but alas...

 

[ran6110]

I don't think you'll see shorter lines at any attractions once Star Wars opens. I think it'll attract a whole lot of people to the resort. Those people won't be spending all of their time specifically in Star Wars Land, and will likely push all wait times up for awhile.

Actually I'm hoping for shorter lines also, SWL might bring in a lot more people but I think initially they'll be cruising past everything else and heading to SWL.

Of course we'll keep with our current plans and be in early and out in the early afternoon which has worked fairly well so far.

 

[Stevek]

I absolutely love Star Wars as well and it's rivaled only by my love for Disneyland which is a bit of a pickle for me...is it a match made in heaven or a desecration of Walt's original park? I'm not one of those that gets overly dramatic about things so I can't see myself landing on the latter BUT, I will say that I'm not overly enthusiastic about a full SW land at Disneyland (at DCA, yes, all for it). However, I will say that I've accepted it's being built and if they are going to do it in DL, they're doing it the right way. It's not plopped down in the middle of the park, taking over Tomorrowland for example, but is being built in the far reaches of the park where I believe it is planned to be fairly un-intrusive to the rest of the park. I'm confident that the shortened ROA will be beautiful and tastefully done once we have the finished product and really don't have an issue with the attraction being shortened. I'm not going to let this ruin my love for the parks or stop me from visiting (the crowds may be another story). But for others, that are unwilling to accept the change or feel it's destroying the park...they probably should stop going. I just can't see why anyone would invest the time and money in something that once brought them so much joy but they now look at with disdain (Hi Andy Castro!)

So in a nutshell, it's by no means ideal but I'm cautiously optimistic that it will be done well...I don't think Disney do anything to risk messing this one up*.






*ha ha, who am I kidding?

 

[ran6110]

I am really worried about the guest lines to get in! There are plenty of times now where the lines for each park meet and cross over in the esplanade.

Disney could really hurt the user experience with the gate bottleneck, imagine 10 or 20 thousand more people each day and many or most of them stopping the line to sign their cards and get their pictures taken.

 

[Mike S]

Did you ever see the plans for what was originally supposed to be what Cars Land is, before theming it to the movie Cars was pitched? Those plans would have had a longer-lasting effect. If I remember correctly, the land was themed to California car culture, and it was going to have a drive-in, or something like that, a car ride... I think they were planning to do an attraction featuring Goofy going on a road trip. The plans were pretty cool and the concept could have been expanded, but alas...

Cars could have been added to that rather than taking over the whole thing. I do like RSR though. Not sure if we still would've gotten that with "Car Land."

 

[StarWarsGirl]

A little background on me, for those who don't know: I'm a Star Wars fan (obviously). I love Star Wars. I was there the first full day of showings for Star Wars: TFA. My phone's wallpaper is currently Rey; it was previously Leia. My ringtones are Star Wars. There is SW/Disney crossover artwork in my room. When my semester ends, I take an entire day and do nothing but watch Star Wars (minus the prequels; they don't count). My username tells people that I love Star Wars. And ya know what?

I cannot say that I am a fan of putting SWL in Disneyland.

But how, being such a huge SW fan, you say, could I be against this? Well, I'm not. For Hollywood Studios. Where it makes sense to put it. Where, although I personally can spend an entire day riding TofT, Star Tours, and RnRC, there need to be more rides. More things to do in general. Where it actually does fit the theming because the entire park is themed to be, well, movies. Where it is not only wanted and could fit into, but also desperately needed.

For DL, in what universe does throwing in a land about SW fit in this park? Star Tours in Tomorrowland fits. I'm personally looking forward to seeing Hyperspace Mountain. But an entire land dedicated to Star Wars? In Disneyland? Does not fit.

I understand why they're doing it. Star Wars is insanely popular. It's proven that its popularity spans more than just one generation. Many of us who are fans of the SW series were not around when the last of the original trilogy was released. So Disney wants to cash in on its popularity. Doesn't mean that it's going to fit, though.

I'm also very tired of these "carbon copy" things Disney tends to do. Putting the same exact attraction in both DL and WDW. I'm not against them doing variations of the same attractions in both parks (the two Space Mountains, for instance, which have the same name but are very different attractions). I'm not against them doing the carbon copies here and there, but it seems like they are putting the same attractions in both parks a good bit. Now they're taking an entire land and putting it the two parks. This makes no sense. Even though MK and DL have the same lands, the execution in both parks is different. It seems like this will not be the case with SWL.

It belongs in DHS. Not in DL.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Cars could have been added to that rather than taking over the whole thing. I do like RSR though. Not sure if we still would've gotten that with "Car Land."

LMAO "Car Land." That sounds awful. I don't think that was the name they had chosen for the land, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had chosen a name like that, had it come to fruition.

I like RSR, too.

 

[Curious Constance]

Oh yeah, of course. I still see no reason why it is getting just two rides, however.

I have a feeling they will be going all out on the queues for the attractions. Along the same level to detail as Indiana Jones. That takes a lot of space. And the restaurants will need to be huge for the popularity they will surely have. Plus I'm sure we'll get Meet and greet areas and stores as well.

 

[Curious Constance]

I agree on not having short Fantasyland style rides, but there are ways to use space better than they are. Autotopia using the roof of the Subs show building is an example of using space wisely. Indy was originally conceived as 2 rides using a lot of the same show scenes. One of the great things about Disneyland is how layered it is. They were short on space, but turned a disadvantage into an advantage by building experiences on top of each other and so they interact with one another. If you forced WDI to use only say 7 Acers instead of 14 and get the same result in terms of attractions and space, they would have had to get creative and perhaps designed and equal and possibly superior experience.

That's true, but if they are forced into limited space the results can end up looking like they were forced into limited space. Trying to find a seat at the restaurant would be a nightmare, wall to wall people everywhere you look. It sounds like it could be miserable.

 

[Stevek]

I'm also very tired of these "carbon copy" things Disney tends to do. Putting the same exact attraction in both DL and WDW. I'm not against them doing variations of the same attractions in both parks (the two Space Mountains, for instance, which have the same name but are very different attractions). I'm not against them doing the carbon copies here and there, but it seems like they are putting the same attractions in both parks a good bit. Now they're taking an entire land and putting it the two parks. This makes no sense. Even though MK and DL have the same lands, the execution in both parks is different. It seems like this will not be the case with SWL.

The reason they put the same attractions is to save on development costs by building at the same time...and quite honestly, there are tons of people that will never experience WDW but will visit DL or vice-versa. I completely get it with Star Wars Land. I don't want parks to be clones but a few attractions here and there is ok. That being said, how much have the done the same in both DL and WDW? Mermaid (different show building), Toy Story (different show building) and now Soarin' (film change only)? What else?

Cars Land - doesn't exist at WDW
Mine Train - doesn't exist at DL
Frozen Maelstrom - doesn't exist at DL
Hatbox Ghost - DL only
HM Queue and Endless Stairs - WDW only
Dueling Dumbo's - WDW only
Toy Story Land - WDW only

The two resorts still feel very different to me. Same named rides, different experiences 99% of the time.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Come on, you're being intellectually dishonest. I actually agree with the broader argument you're making in this thread, but the "only two rides" argument is a terrible one.

MK Frontierland - Two rides, still lots to do (Country Bears, shooting gallery, food, band music, Tom Sawyer Island)
AK Africa - One ride, still lots to do (FoLK, Pangani, Rafiki's)
HS Sunset Boulevard - Two rides, still a handful of other things to do (Beauty and the Beast, Fantasmic, food)
Epcot World Showcase - Two rides, probably an entire day of things to do

You act like two rides is an abnormally small number for a Disney land. It's not. More than two rides would be the exception, not the rule. The ADD generation (and their offspring now that they're having kids) needs to slow down and figure out that there's more to themed entertainment than RIDES RIDES RIDES!

I see what you're saying, but there does come a point where there are too few rides. Especially when there's not enough else to do.

We were in WDW in January and ended up going to other parks on days that we had planned as Epcot days. Soarin' was closed, and TT is terrible. We covered the majority of the park in one day and were just there partial days, mostly for meals, the rest of the time. Just not enough to do.

SWL needs at least one, preferably two, MAJOR attractions. Some smaller attractions in addition won't hurt either.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

SWL needs at least one, preferably two, MAJOR attractions. Some smaller attractions in addition won't hurt either.

It will have those things. Two major rides plus other smaller attractions that aren't technically "rides" in the sense of sitting down in a vehicle and moving.

 

[ran6110]

I see what you're saying, but there does come a point where there are too few rides. Especially when there's not enough else to do.

We were in WDW in January and ended up going to other parks on days that we had planned as Epcot days. Soarin' was closed, and TT is terrible. We covered the majority of the park in one day and were just there partial days, mostly for meals, the rest of the time. Just not enough to do.

SWL needs at least one, preferably two, MAJOR attractions. Some smaller attractions in addition won't hurt either.

And I'm sure they'll have a special meet and greet area.

 

[ran6110]

I'm still trying to figure out just how this would happen...

"Two major attractions are planned, and while the Imagineers are keeping mum about the details, they have confirmed that one of the rides allows guests to take control of the Millennium Falcon. That’s right — you get to fly the Millennium Falcon!"

http://fansided.com/2016/04/16/disneyland-officially-breaks-ground-star-wars-land/

 

[dweezil78]

I'm still trying to figure out just how this would happen...

"Two major attractions are planned, and while the Imagineers are keeping mum about the details, they have confirmed that one of the rides allows guests to take control of the Millennium Falcon. That’s right — you get to fly the Millennium Falcon!"

http://fansided.com/2016/04/16/disneyland-officially-breaks-ground-star-wars-land/

I'm sure it will be different... but look to Mission Space as an example of one way they could pull this off.