Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

[mickEblu]

The whole film was an allegory about immigration. Its creator tied it explicitly to themes of representation.

I don’t think anyone has a problem with that. Many don’t even notice.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t think anyone has a problem with that. Many don’t even notice.

Then I’m very confused by what a good many posters are saying in these threads.

 

[LittleBuford]

How about a movie were things like ethnic, gender or orientation is just an attribute of the character and not a huge plot point? Why can't there be a gay character that isn't comic relief but it just another character in the story that happens to be gay but the story has no bearing on it?

This is exactly what Lightyear and Strange World gave us—gay characters whose sexuality had no bearing on the plot. Yet people are still complaining that’s too much.

 

[BuddyThomas]

This is exactly what Lightyear and Strange World gave us—gay characters whose sexuality had no bearing on the plot. Yet people are still complaining that’s too much.

Yeah, I’m also struggling to figure out the point of that post.

 

[mickEblu]

Then I’m very confused by what a good many posters are saying in these threads.

I don’t think anybody views the immigration allegory as a DEI thing and not a story telling element.

 

[mickEblu]

This is exactly what Lightyear and Strange World gave us—gay characters whose sexuality had no bearing on the plot. Yet people are still complaining that’s too much.

Yes because they were the wrong movies. Many people don’t care for/ aren’t ready for that in PG (cartoons ) for kids.

 

[Phroobar]

Pretty sure you just described all of the ethnic/gender/orientation choices in the three movies I mentioned (Lightyear, Strange World, Wish) where those are all not played for either plot or comic relief, but are simply present.

That doesn't mean they have to be checkbox characters with nothing to do in the plot.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Yes because they were the wrong movies. Many people don’t care for/ aren’t ready for that in PG (cartoons ) for kids.

It’s 2023, not 1953. When exactly will many people be ready????

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I just can’t wrap my head around the idea that good storytelling and DEI are inversely correlated in this way. Such an argument would have us believe that a split-second kiss somehow totally derailed Lightyear, as if nothing else mattered to its writers. A film like Elemental, meanwhile, entirely defies this binary, yet those pushing the either/or framing remain silent on such exceptions to the supposed rule.

At this point, I just want this particular dip in Disney’s fortunes to end so that we can move on from this poisonous Culture War stuff.

I don’t know that they are but I could see how it “could” impact the story.

I’ve spent most my life working in food and beverage, if you asked me to make you a good drink I could come up with hundreds of recipes, if you said don’t use vodka because most drinks use vodka, still easy, if you said no vodka and it must have whiskey, still easy, if you said no vodka, must have whiskey, and has to have OJ also… still possible but getting a lot more difficult, if you said no vodka, must have whiskey, must have OJ, and must be red in color… I can make it but I doubt it’s going to taste very good. I don’t know if that’s what’s happening but I can absolutely see scenarios where the stories are suffering because the writers are being given specific criteria and they are making compromising changes to meet them.

One of the critiques I often see in Disney reviews is it feels like they were written by committee rather than with a unified story, that would make sense if a bunch of people were adding their own bits and pieces into the writers original concept.

 

[TsWade2]

Look, I saw the movie and I assure you that Wish is not agenda driven. Lightyear and Strange World partly yes, but WIsh is like a classic DIsney movie we know and love.....well, more or less to you guys. By the way, I told you Grace Randolph is wrong for Wish including LGBTQ character because I don't see one at all. Nice try, Gracie!

 

[mickEblu]

It’s 2023, not 1953. When exactly will many people be ready????

That’s not for me to say. I can only speak for myself.

 

[TP2000]

It’s 2023, not 1953. When exactly will many people be ready????

It's 2023 and the free market globally has spoken on those movies. Parents around the world obviously aren't ready for gay themes/characters in children's animation movies. Especially ones branded "Disney".

It might take 20 years, or 40 years, or never. Or, it might only take 8 years from now.

Look at President Obama as an example; when he ran for President in 2008 and 2012 he was opposed to gay marriage and publicly stated he felt marriage was only meant to be an institution between one man and one woman. But by 2013, he suddenly "evolved" (his word) on the issue and now supports gay marriage.

From CBS News in 2010....

Obama Still Opposes Same-Sex Marriage

White House Adviser David Axelrod Said Today the President Favors Civil Unions Over Same-Sex Marriage

www.cbsnews.com

Things can change fast. But what's obvious is that a majority of parents buying movie tickets around the Free World aren't yet ready for gay characters in children's movies. And again, especially children's movies branded "Disney".

 

[BuddyThomas]

That’s not for me to say. I can only speak for myself.

Uh huh

 

[mickEblu]

Uh huh

Uh huh what? My opinion is well known.

 

[LittleBuford]

It's 2023 and the free market globally has spoken on those movies. Parents around the world obviously aren't ready for gay themes/characters in children's animation movies. Especially ones branded "Disney".

Two underperforming films from last year are proof of nothing. Elemental features a queer couple and ended up doing quite well through word of mouth. Wish has no obviously LGBTQI characters at all and has done barely any better than Strange World.

 

[TP2000]

Two underperforming films from last year are proof of nothing. Elemental features a queer couple and ended up doing quite well through word of mouth. Wish has no obviously LGBTQI characters at all and has done barely any better than Strange World.

Wish appears to be simply a mediocre movie that didn't get global audiences to the theater, with or without 2SLGBTQQIA+ characters. The Disney brand has waning cachet now, and audiences aren't stupid with how they spend their own money.

Wish is about the 10th flop in a row for Disney. For various reasons, that are all mostly within Disney's ability to self-correct.

 

[brideck]

That doesn't mean they have to be checkbox characters with nothing to do in the plot.

I didn't say that those characters had nothing to do with the plot. I said that their ethnic/gender/orientation wasn't part of the plot. The son in Strange World and Lightyear's best friend/work spouse (? - it's been awhile, so I can't remember if I'm miscategorizing her) certainly both play large roles in the plots of their respective movies.

 

[TsWade2]

Right! I'm out of here before I cause a scene!

 

[Miss Rori]

Wish appears to be simply a mediocre movie that didn't get global audiences to the theater, with or without 2SLGBTQQIA+ characters. The Disney brand has waning cachet now, and audiences aren't stupid with how they spend their own money.

Wish is about the 10th flop in a row for Disney. For various reasons, that are all mostly within Disney's ability to self-correct.

Looking at the showtimes for my local five-screen theater, Wish is only getting two screenings per day this Friday and Saturday so a reissue of White Christmas can run on the same screen. At the various AMC theaters in the region it's by and large being demoted to one screen. That's better than nothing, but some of the online chatter saying that this weekend will be the point it really legs out and becomes Elemental 2.0 seems awfully optimistic. (Wonka's currently expected to do something like $35 million this weekend, which would be a bit more than Wish managed over the five-day Thanksgiving period.)

 

[LittleBuford]

Wish appears to be simply a mediocre movie that didn't get global audiences to the theater

It’s remarkable that you refuse to say the same about films that happen to feature gay characters. That’s the whole problem with the way you and others are framing things: if there’s an obvious scapegoat (“gay themes”, “race-swapping”, etc.), you’ll latch onto it as the cause for box-office disappointment; and if there isn’t, then you’ll simply blame the film’s mediocrity. It’s entirely predictable by now.