Will DCA be a Complete, Well Rounded and Full Day Park after the New Rides Open?

[wityblack]

It will be the second most complete non-castle park. Still a better coaster collection than DisneySea. It is probably as complete as DLP or HKDL. If you wanted to make it a perfect second-gate, I would add a thrilling indoor coaster, one SLoP level dark ride, one Rise/Frozen Journey level dark ride, a new Hyperion show, replace one of the shooters with a shooter with physical sets, and maybe add a Big Hero 6 simulator with some fun practical effects. And maybe one highly themed family coaster too.

 

[PiratesMansion]

It will be the second most complete non-castle park.

An incredibly dubious distinction.

Still a better coaster collection than DisneySea.

The literal only area in which it's better than DCA.

It is probably as complete as DLP or HKDL.

Not even close to DLP. Perhaps Hong Kong in sheer attraction count, I suppose, but there is no universe in which I'd pick DCA over HKDL.

If you wanted to make it a perfect second-gate, I would add a thrilling indoor coaster, one SLoP level dark ride, one Rise/Frozen Journey level dark ride, a new Hyperion show, replace one of the shooters with a shooter with physical sets, and maybe add a Big Hero 6 simulator with some fun practical effects. And maybe one highly themed family coaster too.

This is probably smarter than anything Disney's actually going to do.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

The literal only area in which it's better than DCA.

DCA has much better food than TDS and I think you can make an argument that the ride collection is stronger. Would I agree, no, but I wouldn’t call you crazy.

Not even close to DLP. Perhaps Hong Kong in sheer attraction count, I suppose, but there is no universe in which I'd pick DCA over HKDL.

This is probably smarter than anything Disney's actually going to do.

DCA, HKDL, and DLP all feel like comparable lengths to me, with DLP edging out the other two.

 

[PiratesMansion]

DCA has much better food than TDS and I think you can make an argument that the ride collection is stronger. Would I agree, no, but I wouldn’t call you crazy.

Does it though? Of course, different people have different palates, and maybe things have gone dramatically south in the last five years or so since my last visit, but I thought TDS had a solid collection of restaurants and food offerings, and I say that as someone who is not a seafood person. DCA definitely does not have a better collection of table service restaurants, as there's no way the wonderful settings and food offerings of Restaurante di Cannalleto and Magellan's are inferior to the overhyped and inconsistent Carthay, the decorated-rather-than-themed-gets-by-on-Lobster-Nachos-hype Lamplight, and the literally-never-heard-a-positive-word-about-it Wine Country Trattoria. The one place DCA indisputably wins is for vegetarians or people with other diet restrictions. Otherwise, I'm not convinced.

Ridewise, I think RSR causes people to excuse or overlook a lot of mediocrity at DCA. TDS also doesn't have a habit of making their rides worse for no reason other than IP, and even if you don't love the rides at TDS, you're at DisneySea, a much better and more compelling environment than DCA on its best day, truly miles ahead.

Not saying Tokyo's perfect, but it really does feel like we're in the middle of a TDS backlash caused by decades of hype, some recent, really poor operational decisions made by OLC in regards to Fantasy Springs (that to my understanding were lifted months ago), and the fact that thanks to social media, we can hear English-speaking, American-raised local TDR fans complain about the parks far more easily than before, keeping in mind that they have a tendency to over-idealize DLR as is and would take those parks in a heartbeat over what they actually have. I'd still take Tokyo's product over anyone else's in aggregate.

DCA, HKDL, and DLP all feel like comparable lengths to me, with DLP edging out the other two.

Not sure what you mean by comparable lengths, but to me, there's no universe in which it's more pleasant to spend time at DCA than in either of the other two parks.

It feels to me like some people are over-valuing individual attractions over the experience of the park as a whole, which I suppose is their prerogative, but isn't the entire point of a theme park a place where each attraction, land, and park come together into an environment where each element works to reinforce and elevate the entire place, rather than a place where a handful of really excellent rides excuse and overshadow a lot of mediocrity?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I see your point. It’s just hard for me to play along with the hypothetical because as a long time AP I wouldn’t pay full price for a day with the family at Disneyland either at today’s prices. As long as DCA is right next door and park hopping is included, both parks are one product for all intents and purposes.

This is how we view DLR also, including DTD and the Disney hotels, to us it’s all just one giant park where we’d go back and forth between all of it several times every day.

I chuckled when I read your second line because we let our APs go in Feb, expecting to still visit every few months, and it’s been 7 months and we haven’t been back, as much as we love DL we haven’t been able to justify paying $150 a day (each) for either park.

Guess that’s the downside of being a former long time DL AP, we’ve done everything in both parks hundreds of times so it’s hard to justify the price for even DL (arguably the best park anywhere), we’re far more likely to visit WDW again (where we’ve only been a dozen times in our life) before stepping foot in DL again.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

On paper, adding 4 new rides, including 2 boat rides, should help DCA a lot, but it will still be a mish mash of whatever that also keeps trying to fix things in a way that makes them worse (ToT, Muppet-Vison, California Screamin').

And Hyperion is just going to sit empty forever?

 

[Misted Compass]

DCA still needs one or two smaller dark rides. With the new slate of investment it's just removing one (Monsters) and adding one (Coco) with no net change. They don't even have to have "heart", just something that isn't an E ticket or a filler flat ride.

 

[mickEblu]

DCA still needs one or two smaller dark rides. With the new slate of investment it's just removing one (Monsters) and adding one (Coco) with no net change. They don't even have to have "heart", just something that isn't an E ticket or a filler flat ride.

Just to play Devils Advocate as I’ve shared the same sentiment… are smaller/ non E ticket dark rides really a feature of non castle parks? They re not and I guess that’s because the sister non castle parks are newer. And newer/ modern parks don’t do small dark rides. Shooters being an exception. In addition to of course not being fundamental as they are to castle parks.

TDS has Tangled but TDS is a different Beast and Fantasy Springs is a new concept so maybe the the sister parks do have some “smaller” dark rides in their future. It’ll be interesting to see the scale of the Coco ride.

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

The literal only area in which it's better than DCA.

Along with the updates, DCA has a better flat ride collection, easily the best nighttime lighting/vibes in all Disney parks, and arguably a better collection of E-tickets (Radiator Spring Racers = JtCE, GotG > ToT, Indy > Incredicoaster, Avengers > Pan, Avatar > Frozen). DisneySea generally wins in other areas though (food quality is about equal).

DCA is easily going to be a full day park.

On basis of attractions/shows purely worth your time:

- RsR
- GotG
- Grizzly
- Incredicoaster
- Avatar
- Avengers
- Coco
- Hyperion (should have a new show by 2030)
- World of Color
- Soarin'

And with addons:

- Webslingers
- TsMM
- Little Mermaid
- Goofy Sky School
- Stark Flight Lab
- 6-7 flat rides (esp at night)
- Redwood Challenge Trails
- Ferris Wheel
- Animation Academy

There shouldn't be any space at all where you won't have nothing to do. Add on the amazing food options (esp SanFransokyo and Pym) and other small breaks throughout the day and feeling fulfilled isn't a problem. Arguing that the DCA ride lineup is good is a completely different matter to being a full day park. While it "needs" dark rides it still has a great attraction lineup that should be commended in the future.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Along with the updates, DCA has a better flat ride collection, easily the best nighttime lighting/vibes in all Disney parks

It's certainly up there but easily the best? Both Pandora and Fantasy Springs beat any land at DCA when it comes to nighttime ambiance IMO.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Along with the updates, DCA has a better flat ride collection

Ah yes, that thing that people famously go to Disney parks for, flat rides! Not at all things put in because management has gotten cheaper, no, guests were actively demanding them! And other revisionist history stories.

Easily the best nighttime lighting/vibes in all Disney parks,

Tell me you've never actually been to TDS without telling me you've never actually been to TDS.

and arguably a better collection of E-tickets (Radiator Spring Racers = JtCE, GotG > ToT, Indy > Incredicoaster, Avengers > Pan, Avatar > Frozen).

I can't take this seriously, you're ranking rides that have barely broken ground over rides that have been open and pleasing people for eons?

DCA is easily going to be a full day park.

Again, let's wait until they're done before we give them the victory. They've barely done anything substantive at all. We don't even know it's going to be amazing, let alone good! That is a lot of faith you're giving to modern day Disney with, so far as I can tell, very little basis for it! And even if they DO knock it out of the park, history has shown that there's precedent for them messing with rides and making them worse for no reason a few years down the line, especially within DCA!

On basis of attractions/shows purely worth your time:

I've been to DCA and you don't really need to sell me or presumably anyone else here on the park, but ok, shoot.

- RsR

Sure.

- GotG

Look, Guardians is fun and all, but you have to admit it's got some issues with placement/visuals/etc. TOT, compromised though it was, absolutely fit the area better. And even though they've now awkwardly welded it onto Avengers Campus, you can still tell it wasn't designed to be part of AC because of how the building is positioned.

- Grizzly

I'm not going to pretend Grizzly is some super remarkable A-List attraction, sorry. It's nice, it gets the job done, it's just not an all-timer of an attraction.

- Incredicoaster

Speaking of things that Disney has needlessly ruined, though I'd argue even in its Screamin' days it was overhyped.

- Avatar
- Avengers
- Coco

Again, why are we awarding wins for things that aren't even built yet? They could still be mediocre or worse! It's not like the already-available Avengers content is anything to write home about, you know?

- Hyperion (should have a new show by 2030)

Ah yes, the fact that it might take them five years to put in a new show in what should be a showcase venue is VERY comforting.

I should also mention that TDS has a similar venue with an actual lobby and no visibly cut corners on the exterior or inside, something that can't be said about Hyperion, and they haven't just let it sit vacant. They had the incredible Big Band Beat in there for almost 20 years!

- World of Color

The most overrated Disney night time thing this side of Fantasmic. Also a pain in the butt to see.

- Soarin'

Over California, sure. World is trash, but if we MUST talk about Soarin' as an asset, TDS' version has a much nicer queue and nixed the bendy Eiffel Tower years before the US parks did anything about it. Therefore, most people would presumably find it better.

And with addons:

- Webslingers

Does anyone actually like this ride other than people who frequent Disneyland Paris who are so desperate for new rides that they convince themselves it's much better than it actually is?

- TsMM

Overrated. Also, TDS has this too, with a much better themed area, queue and station!

- Little Mermaid

They had to go out of their way to fix it and it's still just ok.

- Goofy Sky School

Should have been ripped out eons ago. It doesn't belong in a Disney park and it sucks. I imagine all but the deepest DCA diehards would agree with me on this even if they didn't like a lot of my other opinions.

- Stark Flight Lab

Not open yet.

- 6-7 flat rides (esp at night)

So what? This isn't Six Flags. I mean, you're right, Woah, TDS only has six flat rides instead of possibly 7 and if they're not careful, people will definitely cancel their plans to Tokyo and go to DCA instead and that will be the tipping point reason why!

- Redwood Challenge Trails

Admittedly very nice, but TDS has Fortress Explorations and a Columbia-esque ship to explore, let alone other exploratory areas not billed as such, and is thus easily better.

- Ferris Wheel

Look, it's cool, but again, should it really be there? Arguments could be made.

- Animation Academy

A nice little diversion, but hardly an elite attraction. And TDS does have Turtle Talk within a much nicer, better themed setting.

There shouldn't be any space at all where you won't have nothing to do. Add on the amazing food options (esp SanFransokyo and Pym) and other small breaks throughout the day and feeling fulfilled isn't a problem. Arguing that the DCA ride lineup is good is a completely different matter to being a full day park. While it "needs" dark rides it still has a great attraction lineup that should be commended in the future.

I'm glad you love DCA and think it's already pretty close to flawless despite all the evidence to the contrary. Really. But there's no way it trounces TDS or that it will do so even when its new rides are open. I may visit Fantasyland, but I don't live there.

 

[PiratesMansion]

It's certainly up there but easily the best? Both Pandora and Fantasy Springs beat any land at DCA when it comes to nighttime ambiance IMO.

If you ranked nighttime ambiance of all Disney parks, I'm not even sure DCA would be in the top half.

 

[DLR92]

Disney California Adventure downgraded in theme with additions of Avengers Campus and Pixar theme for the pier.
Sometimes I wondered if Disney just should have integrated marvel into Hollywood area.

I do wish Buena Vista Street continued into Hollywood. Removing much of the backlog theme. Sometimes I do feel DCA is seen as a creative blockage.

 

[coffeefan]

It's certainly up there but easily the best? Both Pandora and Fantasy Springs beat any land at DCA when it comes to nighttime ambiance IMO.

If you ranked nighttime ambiance of all Disney parks, I'm not even sure DCA would be in the top half.

Pandora AK closes around sunset or earlier, so it's not really worth considering if people can't enjoy it at night. Pandora DCA will remain open late into the night.

For night ambience, DCA has Carsland, Grizzly Peak, and Pixar Pier. I wish Pixar Pier were replaced, but you can't deny it looks nice at night. Then with Pandora DCA and Coco coming that should enhance the night ambience as well.

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

Ah yes, that thing that people famously go to Disney parks for, flat rides! Not at all things put in because management has gotten cheaper, no, guests were actively demanding them! And other revisionist history stories.

I'm replying to your comment saying that DCA has nothing better compared to DisneySea. Clearly there is more than just one point to it.

Tell me you've never actually been to TDS without telling me you've never actually been to TDS.

I've been to TDS. It's great at nighttime but compared to the actual lighting kinetics at Pixar Pier the argument is moot.

I can't take this seriously, you're ranking rides that have barely broken ground over rides that have been open and pleasing people for eons?

Geez, it's almost as if this post is talking hypotheticals on what happens after the new rides are here. To say the Fantasy Springs rides have been there for eons is laughable. Unless Disney manages to really f it up, there should be no contest when it comes to the new rides.

Again, let's wait until they're done before we give them the victory. They've barely done anything substantive at all. We don't even know it's going to be amazing, let alone good! That is a lot of faith you're giving to modern day Disney with, so far as I can tell, very little basis for it! And even if they DO knock it out of the park, history has shown that there's precedent for them messing with rides and making them worse for no reason a few years down the line, especially within DCA!

My argument is not about quality. It is based on what there is to do. Test Track at Epcot isn't a "great ride," but it's still something you would do when visiting.

Look, Guardians is fun and all, but you have to admit it's got some issues with placement/visuals/etc. TOT, compromised though it was, absolutely fit the area better. And even though they've now awkwardly welded it onto Avengers Campus, you can still tell it wasn't designed to be part of AC because of how the building is positioned.

Again, that doesn't mean that just because it has some weird visuals doesn't mean you shouldn't ride it.

I'm glad you love DCA and think it's already pretty close to flawless despite all the evidence to the contrary. Really. But there's no way it trounces TDS or that it will do so even when its new rides are open. I may visit Fantasyland, but I don't live there.

DisneySea will always be better than DCA. I love DisneySea and the entire park is breathtaking. I don't know where you got me saying it trounces TDS but if it convinced you to write an entire mini-essay that's fine by me. The list I provided is not related to my statement on TDS. I definitely don't think DCA is flawless.

Maybe you got my post mixed up wrong, but I'm literally just saying that if you went to DCA in the near future after all its new rides are open, you would be able to have a full day experience filled with a mix of decent and enjoyable rides, which is a basic goal of a theme park.

If you ranked nighttime ambiance of all Disney parks, I'm not even sure DCA would be in the top half.

Tell me you've never actually been to DCA without telling me you've never actually been to DCA.

I'm too lazy to send more

If this is within the "bottom half," feel free to list down whatever 6 parks beat it. And if you ever go to DCA, go sit on the bench under Silly Symphony Swings for 10 minutes and maybe it'll change your mind.

 

[BrianLo]

I'd still take Tokyo's product over anyone else's in aggregate.

Hmm, never considered it that way. But as someone who is reflexively defensive that DCA is underrated and Disneyland is still their best park… yes in aggregate I’d take current Tokyo Disney Resort over Disneyland Resort.

It feels to me like some people are over-valuing individual attractions over the experience of the park as a whole, which I suppose is their prerogative, but isn't the entire point of a theme park a place where each attraction, land, and park come together into an environment where each element works to reinforce and elevate the entire place, rather than a place where a handful of really excellent rides excuse and overshadow a lot of mediocrity?

I have DCA barely over DHS and of course a solid step over WDSP for this reason. Despite flaws, Epcot is clearly still a more impressive total package by a mile. Or HKDL or Shanghai.

 

[BrianLo]

Radiator Spring Racers = JtCE

Radiator Springs Racers is significantly better than JttCotE. The latter seems like a stepping stone to the former. Of course the queue and vibes are stellar, Mysterious island is still sublime, but the ride is 50% too short. It doesn’t feel as impressive 20 year later when it’s no longer the new stand out modern E ticket looming over the aging ToT, Indy, Splash trio.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Radiator Springs Racers is significantly better than JttCotE. The latter seems like a stepping stone to the former. Of course the queue and vibes are stellar, Mysterious island is still sublime, but the ride is 50% too short. It doesn’t feel as impressive 20 year later when it’s no longer the new stand out modern E ticket looming over the aging ToT, Indy, Splash trio.

I feel the consensus seems to be pretty evenly split among those who have ridden both. I'm still partial to JttCotE myself and think the lava monster encounter is more impressive than any single moment in RSR. Other than the length, I also think it is a more immersive experience from queue to finish.

 

[BrianLo]

I feel the consensus seems to be pretty evenly split among those who have ridden both. I'm still partial to JttCotE myself and think the lava monster encounter is more impressive than any single moment in RSR. Other than the length, I also think it is a more immersive experience from queue to finish.

I've ridden both a fair number of times since 2011/2012 respectively. I'm not saying Journey is remotely bad, but it is incredibly short by comparison. The dark ride portion is inferior and the outdoor portion is inferior. So it has to sail by on atmosphere, vibes, the queue and preference for the property if one is to weight them the same. Or I suspect a preference for Mysterious island.

But because it is the 'foreign' one it is on a pedestal. I'd have a very different opinion if it was longer than 3 minutes.

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

Radiator Springs Racers is significantly better than JttCotE. The latter seems like a stepping stone to the former. Of course the queue and vibes are stellar, Mysterious island is still sublime, but the ride is 50% too short. It doesn’t feel as impressive 20 year later when it’s no longer the new stand out modern E ticket looming over the aging ToT, Indy, Splash trio.

In my personal opinion I agree! I love RsR and it easily is a very "complete" experience compared to JtCE. I was mostly comparing the general/future consensus on ride vs ride comparisons, as ThemeParkTraveler mentioned. I also love JtCE though- getting stuck in one of the show scenes for about 5 minutes and looking at the amount of detail they put into sections where you pass by like a breeze really elevates my appreciation for the ride (and then getting a free reride by going from the exit to the loading station, along with a night ride later the day).