Wilderness Lodge DVC additions - Copper Creek Villas & Cabins

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
They won't ever "transfer" points as it is legally a real estate purchase. That would be like a subdivision developer telling you 10 years after your bought your house that they're going to swap you to a house 1 block down so they can turn your house into a rental. It simply doesn't work like that.

True. But doesn't mean someone in corporate won't think about it. Can see all the real estate attorneys in Florida licking their chops in anticipation of suing.

And who's to say Disney can't/won't get the Florida Legislature to re-write the law on timeshares? After all, they got their own district in Reedy. Current governor is very business friendly, especially to the largest single site employer in Florida.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
They won't ever "transfer" points as it is legally a real estate purchase. That would be like a subdivision developer telling you 10 years after your bought your house that they're going to swap you to a house 1 block down so they can turn your house into a rental. It simply doesn't work like that.

They could if the contract language allows it, And IF you have actually read the DVC contracts there are several force majeure clauses allowing for early termination of the contract. And Disney does indeed have the best lawyers money can buy.

Most of the clauses are focused on resort closure. So Disney could 'close' the resort and terminate the interest as governed by the contract, What I would expect is they would offer an 'equivalent' interest somewhere else in DVC land as opposed to using the contractural terms.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Since I own in WL, I would not be a happy camper if Disney decided to transfer my points to OKW or SSR. When I bought, I was given the opportunity to purchase in SSR and declined, because I wanted WL. "Transfer my points and breach that contract? Where's my lawyer!"

If you have read your contract Disney COULD close WL and terminate your interest, What you 'own' is a deedable right to use the property with a fixed lifespan NOT the property itself. I'm not a real estate lawyer and I'm aware a term exists for this but it escapes me at the moment.

What i'm calling a transfer would be Disney offering 'equivalent' points at another property instead of following the procedure called for in the DVC contract.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
If you have read your contract Disney COULD close WL and terminate your interest, What you 'own' is a deedable right to use the property with a fixed lifespan NOT the property itself. I'm not a real estate lawyer and I'm aware a term exists for this but it escapes me at the moment.

What i'm calling a transfer would be Disney offering 'equivalent' points at another property instead of following the procedure called for in the DVC contract.

It's a leasehold condominium.
 

RandomLurker

New Member
Yes - no doubt WDW, with superior lawyers, could wack all folks with a DVC contract at WL. In the end they would win...

... then loose. In gaining "Victory", the entire DVC system would fall under a cloud: no one could trust WDW to stick to an agreement. I wonder what this would cost them?
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Yes - no doubt WDW, with superior lawyers, could wack all folks with a DVC contract at WL. In the end they would win...

... then loose. In gaining "Victory", the entire DVC system would fall under a cloud: no one could trust WDW to stick to an agreement. I wonder what this would cost them?
This last part is why Disney would never do it. Forget the legality or who has better lawyers. The small gain would never be worth the cost in reputation or good will towards customers. It's an interesting academic debate but it will never actually happen.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
This last part is why Disney would never do it. Forget the legality or who has better lawyers. The small gain would never be worth the cost in reputation or good will towards customers. It's an interesting academic debate but it will never actually happen.

All Disney needs to do is 'close' the resort(s) for an extended period for any reason, There is nothing preventing resort closure, And all the 'trust' issues are mooted.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
All Disney needs to do is 'close' the resort(s) for an extended period for any reason, There is nothing preventing resort closure, And all the 'trust' issues are mooted.
Again, that's the legal loophole. The bigger question: what benefit can come for Disney from closing an entire resort. I thought we started this whole conversation with the idea that some day Disney would buy back some DVC points to make the rooms back into cash hotel rooms. If they close the entire WL to get out of their DVC contracts there then they lose all of the hotel rooms including the DVC rooms. Plus they need to compensate owners for their lost points. It's a lose/lose for Disney. They lose a cash hotel that makes plenty of money plus they alienate a whole group of DVC owners (both those who own at WLV and others who now wonder if their resort is next). From an accounting standpoint aside from the lost cash profit from the hotel, if they just close the resort they would need to accelerate depreciation on all of the remaining fixed assets resulting in a big accounting loss too (buildings and leasehold improvements usually have long depreciation lives, 30+ years in a lot of cases). About the only guys who would be happy are the tax department. They love extra expenses :). It would be a lot easier to just make John Carter 2 if they really need a tax write-off;)

Sorry to @andysol for continuing to have a discussion on a discussion forum. Hopefully you stopped reading this thread by now.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Again, that's the legal loophole. The bigger question: what benefit can come for Disney from closing an entire resort. I thought we started this whole conversation with the idea that some day Disney would buy back some DVC points to make the rooms back into cash hotel rooms. If they close the entire WL to get out of their DVC contracts there then they lose all of the hotel rooms including the DVC rooms. Plus they need to compensate owners for their lost points. It's a lose/lose for Disney. They lose a cash hotel that makes plenty of money plus they alienate a whole group of DVC owners (both those who own at WLV and others who now wonder if their resort is next). From an accounting standpoint aside from the lost cash profit from the hotel, if they just close the resort they would need to accelerate depreciation on all of the remaining fixed assets resulting in a big accounting loss too (buildings and leasehold improvements usually have long depreciation lives, 30+ years in a lot of cases). About the only guys who would be happy are the tax department. They love extra expenses :). It would be a lot easier to just make John Carter 2 if they really need a tax write-off;)

Sorry to @andysol for continuing to have a discussion on a discussion forum. Hopefully you stopped reading this thread by now.

Think the greater point here now is disney has overpriced the hotels so they need a 30% discount to sell them much of the year and they have cannibalized the high end to people like me who LEASE lots of DVC points.

How does the next management team rebalance as @WDW1974 notes WL has occupancy issues, Iger wants to make more DVC units there and do the cash grab, Doing that will hurt the long term profitability of the resort while it will shift much of the operating expense to the 'owners' you can push the MF's only so high before the Lawyers start sniffing around (they are starting to at DVC). So a rebalance will cause much pain either on Wall St or the DVC owners and I'm betting TWDC will choose to inflict the pain on the DVC owners.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
SIAP, but has all the conversation here yielded anything resembling a time line? We just booked for January and I'm wondering if I should try for DAKL instead.
 

note2001

Well-Known Member
SIAP, but has all the conversation here yielded anything resembling a time line? We just booked for January and I'm wondering if I should try for DAKL instead.

This is the only timeline we have so far:
Looks like Wilderness Lodge might be getting a major rehab. A permit was filed today for the setup of a construction trailer near WL. Permit doesn't expire until 12/17/2017.

996 Timberline Dr - Wilderness Rehab - Installation of temporary trailer, utilities, decking/ramp

There will be something going on next January, can't tell you what. If I were you I'd book Jambo, (or Kidani) keeping in mind there's nothing to say they won't start up some work over there too.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Original Poster
Another permit was filed today by the same contractor which expires 8/31/2018. The work description is "Flooring and Light Fixture Rehab", but the list of contractors would indicate it's much bigger then that. There are contractors for an Architect, Interior Design, Landscape Design, Civil Engineering, Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing , Fire Protection, HVAC, Electrical and Site Development.

109 Timberline Dr - Flooring and Light Fixture Rehab
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Another permit was filed today by the same contractor which expires 8/31/2018. The work description is "Flooring and Light Fixture Rehab", but the list of contractors would indicate it's much bigger then that. There are contractors for an Architect, Interior Design, Landscape Design, Civil Engineering, Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing , Fire Protection, HVAC, Electrical and Site Development.

109 Timberline Dr - Flooring and Light Fixture Rehab
Wow, and that's a long expiration date. Is 3+ years typical?
 

note2001

Well-Known Member
Another permit was filed today by the same contractor which expires 8/31/2018. The work description is "Flooring and Light Fixture Rehab", but the list of contractors would indicate it's much bigger then that. There are contractors for an Architect, Interior Design, Landscape Design, Civil Engineering, Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing , Fire Protection, HVAC, Electrical and Site Development.

109 Timberline Dr - Flooring and Light Fixture Rehab

Sounds like they're building a whole new building. Perhaps they've realized that to make DVC lucrative at WL they will need more than just some rooms converted.

I don't understand how they'd be able to get away with that description though. Does Disney have a habit of understating the work to be done?
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Sounds like they're building a whole new building. Perhaps they've realized that to make DVC lucrative at WL they will need more than just some rooms converted.

I don't understand how they'd be able to get away with that description though. Does Disney have a habit of understating the work to be done?
Oh no, a whole new building....could it be the ludicrous concept of tee-pees over water?
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Original Poster
Sounds like they're building a whole new building. Perhaps they've realized that to make DVC lucrative at WL they will need more than just some rooms converted.

I don't understand how they'd be able to get away with that description though. Does Disney have a habit of understating the work to be done?

These documents are not really permits, they are notices of commencement and their purpose is just to indicate that work is about to start and where the work will be done, the description of the work is really incidental and is often very vague.

This may just be a major rehab and not a new building. A new building would likely require a permit files with the South Florida Water Management District which I haven't seen. They also could be starting on the rehab and will start a new building later in the project.
 

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