-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Why was EPCOT better in the 80s?
- Thread starter SMRT-1
- Start date
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
I never saw it in the 80's. I saw it in 1993, when it was still EPCOT Center, however, and what made it great? It was cohesive, unified, unique. It was something that was genuinely and delightfully DISNEY while not using the usual Disney stories and effects to tell a totally different story.
That story is OUR story, as a people. It took you (in Future World) where we had been in society, science and technology, and where we ARE going...into the future. World Showcase was (and is, thankfully) just that...A showplace of our current world, and it's differentiated cultures. United by our differences, and celebrating them.
Is this gone? In some ways, yes, others, no. EPCOT has changed....which it needed to. Will it change again? Yes. Hopefully in a direction that keeps it modern, but at the same time keeps it in touch with it's roots and it's core thematic beliefs.
Lots of good EPCOT threads lately. I'm enjoying 'em.
:lol:
That story is OUR story, as a people. It took you (in Future World) where we had been in society, science and technology, and where we ARE going...into the future. World Showcase was (and is, thankfully) just that...A showplace of our current world, and it's differentiated cultures. United by our differences, and celebrating them.
Is this gone? In some ways, yes, others, no. EPCOT has changed....which it needed to. Will it change again? Yes. Hopefully in a direction that keeps it modern, but at the same time keeps it in touch with it's roots and it's core thematic beliefs.
Lots of good EPCOT threads lately. I'm enjoying 'em.
:lol:
i was lucky enough to be there a few years after it opened and visited several times back then. although i was very young i still remember it..with the help of some vhs tapes. i wish somebody would step up and take control of whats going on there. it boggles my mind that what was originally laid down is now becoming totally lost. EPCOT once had meaning..a story..now it is a scattered mess.
However..i still love it and won't give up hope!
However..i still love it and won't give up hope!
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Ahhhh...:brick::ROFLOL: I could argue that it is, in the sense that it IS changing and IS straying from it's cohesive theme, but at the same time, it NEEDS too. EPCOT Center DID need to grow, and to change. I just think that they abandoned it, just as they changed directions.
EPCOT Center to Epcot'94 was a great transition, I just think that they tried to alter TOO much after Epcot'96 when it just became Epcot. If they would have kept it in the same idea as Epcot'94, which was of a more immediate and smaller "Global Neighborhood", I think that would have worked MUCH better. However, they seem to have forgotten that in 99 with the Millennium, which showed a expanding CULTRAL world. Then, as we get into the present, they seem to want to go BACK to EPCOT Center-ish themes in a Epcot setting. See SSE07 and M:S for that. Honestly, I wish that they would continue on that track. they already have The Land, M:S and SSE for that. It's just the rest that'll need help.
Aaaand, you go me going, SMRT-1!:ROFLOL:Good thing it's a holiday tomorrow!:lol:
rsoxguy
Well-Known Member
- Spaceship Earth highlighted humanity's evolution through the process of communication. There was nothing with which it could be compared, so there was no ability to complain of anything "before the refurb".
- Horizons highlighted humanity's ability to conquer any frontier with a futuristic eye toward progress. It was a beautiful ride.
- World of Motion gave a whimsical history of human mobility while keeping an eye on the potential that lies ahead. It was a feast for the eyes.
- The Living Seas gave a very modern view of underwater research through the presentation of a deep sea research station. It allowed you to become immersed in the atmosphere.
- Journey Into The Imagination served as a reminder that the future is an open book of possibilities if we keep our minds and hearts open to every potential. Simply beautiful.
- The Wonders of Life pavilion presented an explanation of who we are as people, while presenting a futuristic view of human medicine through Body Wars. The more whimsical outer area included fun things such as Goofy About Health, The Anacomical Players, and health oriented activities. The whole place was a blast.
- All of the nations were new, and therefore free of the "seen it, done it" feel.
- Generally, everything was fresh, new, and free of the feeling that the attractions are simply a backdrop to promote a cartoon.
- Maintenance and upkeep were of a higher quality.
BrerFrog
Active Member
I have never been to EPCOT in the 80s (wasn't even born back then), but this post makes me miss it.
I went to WDW for the first time in 1982, as an adult. (I took my parents who were visiting me in my new home) I agree with all of this.
my mother's remark was "This is the Magic Kingdom for adults." Not quite true, as within a couple of years I had a toddler in tow, and we both enjoyed being there.
Back then, it was an escape from the crowded walkways of the MK, and we would go to take a breather.
There was enough room around WS for a bus, for guests, to go through providing transportation. There were no little kiosks crowding the walkway, and alcohol was only available in the restaurants - first only at sit-down, but then also at counter service. Then later, there were only kiosks set up during the Food & Wine festival, and the Flower and Garden Festival - with appropriate offerings.
And of course, because the walkways were less crowded, there were parades.
We were also in a recession back then, and from a different generation, so a trip to WDW was still a once in a lifetime experience for most people. Therefore, my parents, even though they returned a couple of times before they died, never got bored by the same old, same old.
Epcot in Days Gone By
I agree that Epcot has had to change over the years, but there are some things that have been lost in the changes. Every attraction in Future World used to have its own theme song, many of which were quite popular.
The attractions themselves had a significant amount of detail in them, even to the extent that some things you would never really pickup on, but they were there (case in point, just look at Mesa Verde Times about Horizons, or the 1980s early 1990s Steve Birnbaum "Official Guide to WDW" books and their descriptions of the attractions).
All of this was tied together between pavilions with music that transitioned the attraction theme songs. Future World was more of a unifed whole (like MK Main Street tries to be) rather than the individual pavilions they are today.
Maybe when we lost that attention to detail we lost the magic of Future World regardless of the attractions in each pavilion. I miss Horizons and World of Motion and the original Journey Into Imagination (and the detail even that ride had about how imagination works--bet that theory about imagination was lost on most people but pointed out in Birnbaum's book). But I also enjoy Mission Space and Test Track and am glad Figment is back in JII.
Epcot doesn't have to remain stagnant with out-dated attractions, but it would really help it to rediscover its magic if it paid more attention to its themes and their details and how they flow together.
Just a thought.
I agree that Epcot has had to change over the years, but there are some things that have been lost in the changes. Every attraction in Future World used to have its own theme song, many of which were quite popular.
The attractions themselves had a significant amount of detail in them, even to the extent that some things you would never really pickup on, but they were there (case in point, just look at Mesa Verde Times about Horizons, or the 1980s early 1990s Steve Birnbaum "Official Guide to WDW" books and their descriptions of the attractions).
All of this was tied together between pavilions with music that transitioned the attraction theme songs. Future World was more of a unifed whole (like MK Main Street tries to be) rather than the individual pavilions they are today.
Maybe when we lost that attention to detail we lost the magic of Future World regardless of the attractions in each pavilion. I miss Horizons and World of Motion and the original Journey Into Imagination (and the detail even that ride had about how imagination works--bet that theory about imagination was lost on most people but pointed out in Birnbaum's book). But I also enjoy Mission Space and Test Track and am glad Figment is back in JII.
Epcot doesn't have to remain stagnant with out-dated attractions, but it would really help it to rediscover its magic if it paid more attention to its themes and their details and how they flow together.
Just a thought.
muteki
Well-Known Member
My first trip was in 91, so while I wasn't there in the 80s I was lucky enough to see the park in it's original intended state. And while I do think it was better back then for several reasons, I imagine there are a lot of people out there that think otherwise.
I think what happened was with the coming of universal studios and mgm the general public started wanting more thrilling attractions, and Epcot Center was often the subject of jokes about it's apparent boredom-inducing rides and not-so futuristic futuristic attractions.
Based on this pressure I think the powers at be were pushed to add some different rides, at the cost of getting rid of others. They probably did it with the best intentions, but as a result the uniqueness and cohesiveness suffered.
I think what happened was with the coming of universal studios and mgm the general public started wanting more thrilling attractions, and Epcot Center was often the subject of jokes about it's apparent boredom-inducing rides and not-so futuristic futuristic attractions.
Based on this pressure I think the powers at be were pushed to add some different rides, at the cost of getting rid of others. They probably did it with the best intentions, but as a result the uniqueness and cohesiveness suffered.
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
Rockin' Haircuts and Power Ballads.
Zummi Gummi
Pioneering the Universe Within!
The park was much more cohesive in terms of theme in the 80's. I was growing up then, and even as a child I remember how well everything flowed together.
That being said, and I know this is unpopular here, but I prefer both M:S and TT to Horizons and WoM. M:S and TT are better attractions, in my opinion.
That being said, and I know this is unpopular here, but I prefer both M:S and TT to Horizons and WoM. M:S and TT are better attractions, in my opinion.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Maybe that's the problem. Disney expects you to keep coming back, so they prolong and dilute the experience that way.
A good thought! Well said!
I beleive that IN FULL. It would be easy to retain and bring back the "old" Spirit of EPCOT with the new direction it wants to take. New looks, marketing, new approach, and it could all be done now, easily, and even cheaply, seeing they already market Disney/EPCOT in a certain way.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Today's Epcot is a good park. But there are reasons why EPCOT in the 80s was better, more impressive than what it is today, which simply can not be helped. Not all of the reasons why it was better can be attributed to malice, neglect, or cluelessness. Let me name three:
1) Futurism was a social phenomenon.
EPCOT did not come about in a cultural vacuum. Futurism, obsessing about the future, the modernist idea of progress, this is what drove Walt Disney and EPCOT.
But futurism simply does not exist anymore. We live in a post-modern age. We do not look to the future and expect to all be driving flying, nuclear powered vehicles within fifty years anymore. Stuff like that is what dreams were about back then.
2) EPCOT was new.
There is something people born after, say, 1975/1980 must try to understand. One must try to get back in one's mind to the world of 1982, imagine what the world was like back then, what those of us on the wrong side of forty were used to. And then imagine EPCOT suddenly being there.
Let me try to explain by giving some examples:
- EPCOT had the Sperry Computer Review.
This attraction showed the guests...a COMPUTER! Sooo exiting in 1982! A room full of computers! Back then, a huge computer meant a powerful computer. We didn't have computers at home. To see a huge computer was riveting, we were exited when the attraction explained how everything in EPCOT was controlled by it, from the AA's to the lights. To us, this was magic.
- Synthesizers.
Many of the EPCOT songs and the environment music relied heavily on synthesizers. This felt very futuristic. Wow. The EPCOT theme music, the UoE song...wow, just wow. This was music - computerised music, synthesizers! - that was new and futuristic.
- Architecture.
Buildings were square in the early 80s. Postmodern curving lines, computer-aided design were futuristic. Not seen in the world around you. Skyscrapers came in the variants square or square. Not with all those curving lines of today.
Here is what, say, the Universe pavilion looked like to our eyes in 1982:
All the pavilions had these ultra-modern, never-seen-before looks. They were even more exiting to us than the picture above is for todays generation, because we were not used to curving architecture in the first place.
- Lots of little things.
There were no internets. Yet EPCOT had touchscreens! Which were not just a great new technology in their own right, but which to top it off allowed you to make dinner reservations over a computer to a restaurant half a mile away!!
EPCOT was full of wonders like this.
All those aspects were new. Well newish. They existed, but were not taken for granted, we were not accustomed to them.
With this mindset, try to imagine going into Horizons. Oh man. So, so, so beautiful.
I hope none of the above is vague. What I mean is, when we today look at a Beatles concert, it looks lame. At least: tame. But...back in 1965, four men shaking their hips and wearing their hair over their ears was new, provocative, exciting! One can today still admire the Beatles for the inherent quality of their music, but it takes an effort to understand what a Beatles concert must have looked like to an innocent 1965 teenage girl.
3) Thirdly and lastly:
Equally, or perhaps most important was that EPCOT turned all this new stuff into a unified, cohesive whole. All the pavilions related to one another, related to the architecture, to the music, to society at large.
EPCOT had a story, a future, a promise. I would walk in EPCOT and be so full of awe that I wondered whether I was dreaming, whether it was all for real, or just a mirage.
1) Futurism was a social phenomenon.
EPCOT did not come about in a cultural vacuum. Futurism, obsessing about the future, the modernist idea of progress, this is what drove Walt Disney and EPCOT.
But futurism simply does not exist anymore. We live in a post-modern age. We do not look to the future and expect to all be driving flying, nuclear powered vehicles within fifty years anymore. Stuff like that is what dreams were about back then.
2) EPCOT was new.
There is something people born after, say, 1975/1980 must try to understand. One must try to get back in one's mind to the world of 1982, imagine what the world was like back then, what those of us on the wrong side of forty were used to. And then imagine EPCOT suddenly being there.
Let me try to explain by giving some examples:
- EPCOT had the Sperry Computer Review.
This attraction showed the guests...a COMPUTER! Sooo exiting in 1982! A room full of computers! Back then, a huge computer meant a powerful computer. We didn't have computers at home. To see a huge computer was riveting, we were exited when the attraction explained how everything in EPCOT was controlled by it, from the AA's to the lights. To us, this was magic.
- Synthesizers.
Many of the EPCOT songs and the environment music relied heavily on synthesizers. This felt very futuristic. Wow. The EPCOT theme music, the UoE song...wow, just wow. This was music - computerised music, synthesizers! - that was new and futuristic.
- Architecture.
Buildings were square in the early 80s. Postmodern curving lines, computer-aided design were futuristic. Not seen in the world around you. Skyscrapers came in the variants square or square. Not with all those curving lines of today.
Here is what, say, the Universe pavilion looked like to our eyes in 1982:
All the pavilions had these ultra-modern, never-seen-before looks. They were even more exiting to us than the picture above is for todays generation, because we were not used to curving architecture in the first place.
- Lots of little things.
There were no internets. Yet EPCOT had touchscreens! Which were not just a great new technology in their own right, but which to top it off allowed you to make dinner reservations over a computer to a restaurant half a mile away!!
EPCOT was full of wonders like this.
All those aspects were new. Well newish. They existed, but were not taken for granted, we were not accustomed to them.
With this mindset, try to imagine going into Horizons. Oh man. So, so, so beautiful.
I hope none of the above is vague. What I mean is, when we today look at a Beatles concert, it looks lame. At least: tame. But...back in 1965, four men shaking their hips and wearing their hair over their ears was new, provocative, exciting! One can today still admire the Beatles for the inherent quality of their music, but it takes an effort to understand what a Beatles concert must have looked like to an innocent 1965 teenage girl.
3) Thirdly and lastly:
Equally, or perhaps most important was that EPCOT turned all this new stuff into a unified, cohesive whole. All the pavilions related to one another, related to the architecture, to the music, to society at large.
EPCOT had a story, a future, a promise. I would walk in EPCOT and be so full of awe that I wondered whether I was dreaming, whether it was all for real, or just a mirage.
Yes Futureworld was very cohesive, Currently I think the communicore's were better than innoventions (now if innoventions was at the base of SSE it would be more like the old SSE) The wild video phone terminals to make disney dining reservations those poor phone reps that had kids like me playing with the terminals
I saw epcot either when it opened or within the first year (I can't remember that far back).
Figment was better, The living seas is now close to on par with what it was albeit for different reasons.
spaceship earth will always be spaceship earth.
Universe of energy has evolved ok, it could use a bit more updating tho...
Wonders of life... glad it's gone it never was that interesting to me.
I MISS HORIZONS! Mission Space is cool and all but horizons was the best, long ride, good music and story, the oranges, and the exit queue music and the GE plasma sign...
World of motion was also good, test track is more fun, a combination of the 2 would be cool (a drive though the ages into the test lap)
World showcase is still about the same as it was but mexico is not as ambient and nice as it was.
The tapestry of nations parade should come back in some incarnation. Oh and those stilt walking performers were kinda cool. ever notice that every park there but epcot has a parade nowadays? (yes i know the walkways aren't made for it very well with patron flow (see tapestry of nations)
all the injection of disney characters isn't really needed at this park.
it is more of an ambient cohesion that is currently missing, what we have now is film tie ins and corporate advertising (the subtle kind was better)
I go to disney every year or 2 and have seen a LOT of changes, and some of the magic is fading from this park. it is still my favourite tho
disneyland is getting captain EO back I want to see disneyworld get it back too.
those poor phone reps that had kids like me playing with the terminals I saw epcot either when it opened or within the first year (I can't remember that far back
). Figment was better, The living seas is now close to on par with what it was albeit for different reasons.
spaceship earth will always be spaceship earth.
Universe of energy has evolved ok, it could use a bit more updating tho...
Wonders of life... glad it's gone it never was that interesting to me.
I MISS HORIZONS! Mission Space is cool and all but horizons was the best, long ride, good music and story, the oranges, and the exit queue music and the GE plasma sign...
World of motion was also good, test track is more fun, a combination of the 2 would be cool (a drive though the ages into the test lap)
World showcase is still about the same as it was but mexico is not as ambient and nice as it was.
The tapestry of nations parade should come back in some incarnation. Oh and those stilt walking performers were kinda cool. ever notice that every park there but epcot has a parade nowadays? (yes i know the walkways aren't made for it very well with patron flow (see tapestry of nations)
all the injection of disney characters isn't really needed at this park.
it is more of an ambient cohesion that is currently missing, what we have now is film tie ins and corporate advertising (the subtle kind was better)
I go to disney every year or 2 and have seen a LOT of changes, and some of the magic is fading from this park. it is still my favourite tho
disneyland is getting captain EO back I want to see disneyworld get it back too.