Why Universal is not actual competition to WDW, a theory...

[GLaDOS]

Just spent a few days at Uni last week. It's hard to go through this thread and follow the arguments being posted, but I think I get the gist. I'll offer the following observation:

On Monday and Tuesday of last week, my family was at Uni and my parents were at WDW (they hit MK, Epcot, and DHS). They reported significant, although certainly not unbearable, crowds from park opening to park closing at whatever park they were at. Lines at both Uni parks were minimal, to the point that Tuesday evening, we entered Wizarding World at 7:00, at at Three Broomsticks with no wait, walked onto Dragon Challenge, Forbidden Journey, and Flight of the Hippogriff, and could have walked into Ollivander's with no wait. This was a holiday week and we were in the most popular section of the park. Earlier that evening, we had walked onto Hulk, Spiderman, Dr. Doom. and Cat in the Hat. Crowds during the day were more than walk-on, but waits were minimal except for Minions and Forbidden Journey (Even Transformers had a short line most of the time).

So, based on my anecdotal evidence, it appears to me that Disney is likely winning the battle for quantity of guests. And this, after years and years of Uni outpacing WDW in attraction development.

And they most likely always will. Disney World is a national tradition and something everyone knows about. Universal is not looking to overtake WDW's attendance, nor is it physically possible to do so. With that being said, saying Universal is not in the same league as Disney is hilariously blind criticism

 

[Tim Lohr]

I agree with this 100%, that as popular as Harry Potter is now, it's going to end up being a being seen as a fad. I also think Disney realized not only that was it a fad, but it was very similar to something they did years ago called Davy Crockett, where for the last half of the 1950's every little kid in America went running around with a -skin cap on... until, one day... the fad was over. Then in the 1970's a new generation of kids came along who had no interest in Davy Crockett, because they had this new thing to obsess over called Star Wars

Star Wars like a great many of the Disney animated films are both non-fads, in part because they are good movies, but George Lucas and Walt Disney both knew how market and reintroduce their films every few years to generation after generation of kids. JK Rowling on the other hand has no interest in doing anything else with Harry Potter, and without the anticipation of the next Potter book and the next Potter film I don't see why this would carry over to the next generation of kids, it seems more likely that some new thing will come along at some point in the future and capture the imaginations on that next generation.

That's not to say Harry Potter isn't good though, I've never read the books but I think the movies are very good. I've also never read the book version of JAWS but it too was a best seller in the 1970's, the film made by Steven Spielberg was the first "Blockbuster!" it was a huge hit, and is still considered a classic today, but I heard the theme park attraction for JAWS at Universal just got torn down to make way for some new fad

 

[Lucky]

LoTR only gained modern momentum with the films that were recently made, if they never were made I seriously doubt anyone under the age of 25 knew they existed. LoTR would be a fantastic "stop the bleeding" pick up but it too, would have a limited lifespan, much like Potter.

In a 1999 poll of Amazon.com customers, The Lord of the Rings was judged to be their favourite "book of the millennium."

The first movie was not released until 2001. The books' enduring popularity is the reason someone thought a high-budget movie series would be profitable.

Jimmy Thick - Still making $*%# up as he goes along.

 

[GrandRoyale]

I personally dislike Harry Potter. Don't watch the movies or read the books. I can't say if it's attracting a fad audience or not. What I can say is that, despite my lack of enthusiasm for Harry Potter as a property, I think what Islands of Adventure did was magnificent. It's truly a marvel in theme park engineering and design. And that's why I visit it.

And I think that's proof that it will last. If a non-Potter fan like myself can enjoy it as immensely as I do, everyone else will as well, even if Potter does soon fall out of the public eye. Time has shown us that a well-designed attraction will continuously be successful, regardless of the property or theme it's based upon. Worst case scenario, everyone forgets about Potter and then what? You've still got a highly-detailed land, magnificent castle, and one of the best dark rides in the world sitting on a land themed to magic and wizards. That's never going to go out of style.

I think that that was smart of Universal. In attracting this so-called "fad" audience, they were able to show people what they were about. You're right that Universal had a hard time attracting visitors pre-Potter. However, the "fad" brought people over in droves, and those same people got a taste of everything else Universal has to offer, including the things that aren't fads--things like Marvel, Dr Seuss, The Simpsons, etc. And in the end, THAT'S what'll keep people coming back. People come for Potter, but they'll come BACK for everything else Universal has planned. It was actually a great business plan in my opinion, especially considering the shape Universal was in before. Even if Harry Potter is a fad, it's still a great thing for Universal because it put them on the map and got them exposure so now they truly can compete.

The same goes for Carsland, and even less people can identify with that property. Cars is one of Pixar's least successful franchises, yet Carsland brought tons of people to DCA. In a few years, people won't be coming out to see Lightning McQueen and Tow Mater, they'll be going for the incredible rock work and immersive atmosphere. The same applies to Harry Potter.

So I do think that Universal is competing with Disney. I don't think you're a troll and I think you're entitled to your opinions. But what Universal is doing is offering a quality product that is getting a lot of exposure because of this "fad". Even if it is a fad, at least Harry Potter made people aware that they have a great resort that's worth repeat visits.

 

[GLaDOS]

Star Wars like a great many of the Disney animated films are both non-fads, in part because they are good movies, but George Lucas and Walt Disney both knew how market and reintroduce their films every few years to generation after generation of kids. JK Rowling on the other hand has no interest in doing anything else with Harry Potter, and without the anticipation of the next Potter book and the next Potter film I don't see why this would carry over to the next generation of kids, it seems more likely that some new thing will come along at some point in the future and capture the imaginations on that next generation.

She's writing a new movie in the universe as we speak.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[Captain Chaos]

And yet another nonsense thread by the resident troll...

 

[Jimmy Thick]

In a 1999 poll of Amazon.com customers, The Lord of the Rings was judged to be their favourite "book of the millennium."

The first movie was not released until 2001. The books' enduring popularity is the reason someone thought a high-budget movie series would be profitable.

Jimmy Thick - Still making $*%# up as he goes along.

What was the age demographic for the poll? How many people contributed to the poll? How long was the film announced before this poll? Question questions.

Apples and oranges.

Or an orange goblin analogy.


Jimmy Thick- Funny thing about polls...

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Nothing to add to this, so I'll just do the polite thing to do and thank you, Jimmy Thick, for the laugh!

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think I'm going to believe Tony Baxter over a guy who can't spell Rowling in regards to whether or not Disney lost Harry Potter.

 

[MichWolv]

And they most likely always will. Disney World is a national tradition and something everyone knows about. Universal is not looking to overtake WDW's attendance, nor is it physically possible to do so. With that being said, saying Universal is not in the same league as Disney is hilariously blind criticism

But I didn't say that.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I agree with this 100%, that as popular as Harry Potter is now, it's going to end up being a being seen as a fad. I also think Disney realized not only that was it a fad, but it was very similar to something they did years ago called Davy Crockett, where for the last half of the 1950's every little kid in America went running around with a -skin cap on... until, one day... the fad was over. Then in the 1970's a new generation of kids came along who had no interest in Davy Crockett, because they had this new thing to obsess over called Star Wars

Star Wars like a great many of the Disney animated films are both non-fads, in part because they are good movies, but George Lucas and Walt Disney both knew how market and reintroduce their films every few years to generation after generation of kids. JK Rowling on the other hand has no interest in doing anything else with Harry Potter, and without the anticipation of the next Potter book and the next Potter film I don't see why this would carry over to the next generation of kids, it seems more likely that some new thing will come along at some point in the future and capture the imaginations on that next generation.

That's not to say Harry Potter isn't good though, I've never read the books but I think the movies are very good. I've also never read the book version of JAWS but it too was a best seller in the 1970's, the film made by Steven Spielberg was the first "Blockbuster!" it was a huge hit, and is still considered a classic today, but I heard the theme park attraction for JAWS at Universal just got torn down to make way for some new fad

I guess you missed the fact that JK Rowling is writing the screen play for the first in a series of new movies set in "The Wizarding World". And that is ignoring that her original book series is the most successful literary series in the Universe. Even legendary Imagineer Tony Baxter admits that it was a missed opportunity.
And speaking of fads, can any one say Avatar?

 

[GLaDOS]

But I didn't say that.

Oh, I know. I was talking about the discussion at large.

 

[Thrill]

Problem: attendance means absolutely jack nothing.

What matters is whether your 17 million guests spend what they used to. To understand exactly what I'm driving at, here's Disney's game plan (since Eisner took power, really):
-Build hotels like crazy so people stay on property
-Build extra parks to ensure people stay on property
-Make marginal pass days cheap so people stay on property
-Offer free transportation to/from the airport so people don't rent a car and stay on property
-Give free meal plans so people are motivated to stay on property

See a pattern? Disney wants their guests to spend all of their money on Disney property. Universal kills that strategy. If a guest spends even one day at Wizarding World of Harry Potter, Disney just lost however much a Universal pass costs, they lost whatever merchandise spending was made, and they lost food revenue. To make it even worse, it's a slippery slope. Now it's one day, maybe two days, but as Universal expands, they are going to suck more and more money out of Disney's pockets. Maybe the attendance balances out, but Disney is pulling a smaller slice of a bigger pie.

And speaking of fads, can any one say Avatar?

Avatar is considered a fad? No one has talked about it in three years.

The difference between the Harry Potter and Avatar is that Harry Potter clearly has legs. The books were popular over an almost ten-year span, and the same thing goes for the movies. Avatar made a crapton of the money because it was a special-effects-fest perfectly aligned with the launch of digital 3D movie theaters.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Half baked?

 

[MichWolv]

I wrote up some random musings on Uni after my trip. I'll crib from the PML thread where I originally put them just to add to the craziness that this thread already embodies!

1. Royal Pacific is a fine hotel. Comfortable beds, nice restaurants and public areas. But it falls short in conveniences in the rooms (no refrigerator, no sink separate from toilet area, cramped table and chairs, charge for Internet) and public areas (no use of luggage cart without bellman, no grab n go food, parking that you pay for way far from lobby).

2. That being said, walking to the parks, and free unlimited Uni express made the stay worthwhile. The walk is short and pleasant. And Uni express covers almost all rides and attractions, with waits typically shorter than a fastpass line.

3. Giving those who pay to stay in the hotels unlimited Uni express, and allowing others to buy it, is a travesty that Disney would be crucified for if they implemented it.

4. Crowds for the week of t-giving we're very low. Tuesday evening, we walked on Forbidden Journey (which is the only major attraction that doesn't have Uni express) at 8 pm. Crowds during the day were bigger than that, of course, and we skipped whatever lines there were, but I would say Uni express only saved us about 2 hours of lines per day.

5. Uni Cinematic Spectacular is a dud of nighttime show. It has the requisite elements, but they aren't used well

6. Universal's attractions, individually, measure up well to Disney's in every way -- theming, creativity, variety, allowing youngsters to ride thrilling rides, load speed, upkeep, etc.

7. Spider-man in HD makes a big difference. It's a great ride. So is, of course, Transformers.

8. The AAA discount all over the resort saved us a decent amount of money on food. Glad I checked to see if there was one.

 

[Tim Lohr]

She's writing a new movie in the universe as we speak.

Your argument is invalid.

I guess you missed the fact that JK Rowling is writing the screen play for the first in a series of new movies set in "The Wizarding World". And that is ignoring that her original book series is the most successful literary series in the Universe. Even legendary Imagineer Tony Baxter admits that it was a missed opportunity.
And speaking of fads, can any one say Avatar?

Just wondering... did you guys ever see the sequels to JAWS? they were supposedly "set in the same universe" as the original movie too

 

[MichWolv]

continuing...

9. We hit early opening for Harry Potter one day. Had I known how small the crowds would be at night I'd have skipped it. Even though only hotel guests get the benfit, the land was overrun quickly. We waited 20 min for Forbidden Journey because we did Ollivanders first, having heard that line moves very slow. That was a grat idea, because....
10. Aaron got picked for the wand demonstration at Ollivanders. He loved it. Of course, we bought the wand that "chose" him, but it was well worth it. We had told him a kid gets picked, so he wasn't even scared when mr. Ollivander came up to him. And the actor playing Ollivander was amazing. A great little show/demo.

11. Other thanHP and the Spider-man upgrades, Islands of Adventure is seriously stale. Decent list of attractions, but nothing at all new or particularly interesting.

12. Food at 3 Broomsticks was excellent, as was the setting and little special effects they show. Get the Feast and enjoy (and don't forget the AAA discount).

13. Butterbeer is the best nonalcoholic drink I have ever imbibed. And judging by the lines to buy it, Uni is virtually printing unlimited amounts of money.

14. Rip, Ride, Rocket is amongst my favorite coasters ever. It lacks theming, but the on board audio is cool, the restraint system is great, and the ride is a real rush. Why this thing doesn't get more accolades, I don't know.
15. Despicable Me: Minion Mayhem may be the funniest simulator ride ever. The preshow speeches from Gru had me in stitches before the thing even started, and the simulator itself was pure flat out thousand mile an hour hysterical. The dance party at the exit is pure genius. The only thing lacking in this attraction is capacity.

16. Twister is what Disney should do to catastrophe Canyon -- make it a walk-through. It's very effective. Only thing that scared either of my kids, but I made em go again to that they would lose he fear, which worked.

17. Poor ET deserves a better ride.
18. Mythos was underwhelming.
19. We caught a surprise little close up magic show at the Studios that was really entertaining. On,y 15 minutes long, and meant to sell the tricks, but very fun.
20. Uni's parade is lame.

21. Very understated Xmas decorations. If Disney did it that way, they'd be crucified. I loved it, because, frankly, while I love Xmas lights, I don't need it shoved at my in every possible way.

22. The theming of all the lands in IOA and the Springfield area in the studios park are top notch. Disney could take lessons.

23. Construction could be seen wherever it was going on, including routine painting in several queues. No attempt to hide anything, major or minor. Again, Disney would be crucified if it did this.

24. All safety, boarding, and other announcements in Suess-land rhyme. I found this incredibly amusing, and started doing it to make my kids smile at random points during the trip. They did not always respond as intended.

 

[MichWolv]

25. 3 1/2 days with Uni express during Thanksgiving week is enough to do literally everything, and repeat the stuff you like multiple times, at a leisurely pace. We never felt rushed, took breaks from the parks, and didn't feel like we missed a thing.
26. No Disney Channel on the TVs at Uni hotels. My kids were annoyed.

27. Men in black is more high tech and cool, but Buzz is the better shoot the alien ride.
28. Uni does a good version of child swap, because it's method leaves zero time between rides, rather than having to go through the FP line.

29. Although the name is clearly marked on everything, I only heard my family refer to the system as Universal Express every other guest said "fastpass". This was amusing.

30. After buying my tix online, I got a survey, which I started. The first six questions were all about the extent to which I knew before buying my tickets that universal and Disney were separate. Really? Are people that clueless?

31. I'm glad we got annual passes, because we will be back after hP phase 2 opens. Given the quality of what they did with phase 1, I have high expectations.

 

[GLaDOS]

Just wondering... did you guys ever see the sequels to JAWS?

Those were written by Spielberg and people that love and care about quality, right?

No?

Okay.

 

[Master Yoda]

Glad you bring up LOTR. Because those stories clearly failed and left people's memory after there were no more books.

Oh wait...

Jimmy Thick - Dumber than ever...?

If I am not mistaken around 10 books were released after his death (I think the latest was in 2009) and there was a total of 15 books about Middle Earth outside of the LOTR and Hobbit. I also believe that he had nearly as many books published that had nothing to do with Middle Earth.