Mister Boo
Active Member
Disney is lucky Jaws is gone. All this blood in the water...
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Why Hollywood Studios is being rebuilt
- Thread starter pheneix
- Start date
Disney is lucky Jaws is gone. All this blood in the water...
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Just in case someone doesn't understand your reference (which was a great one, by the way)...
ezralou
Member
yep.. it winds from Chicago to LA...just like John Mayer sang
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
But DHS is the park most impacted by the competition. Heads have turned. Everyone that comes to Orlando now visits IOA. Their vacation isn't any longer, so what is getting sacrificed? A day at the Magic Kingdom... No way. The shell of a park formerly called MGM Studios... Probably.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Well, I wouldn't say "everyone" goes to IOA -- there's still a devoted customer base for Disney, especially with DME and internal transport making it easy to just stay on the resort. Plus, a lot of people are among the toddler set and there's a perception that Universal doesn't have as much to offer young kids.
That said, I agree with the point that DHS is the lower lying fruit and the one most likely to lose days to Universal. It's similar in style and theme to the Universal parks and, while it has some great attractions, arguable has the least to do. Especially for repeat guests who have already seen the shows. DHS is very vulnerable. If something isn't added to the park quickly, we could certainly see attendance drop relatively quickly there.
El Grupo
Well-Known Member
My guess is that DHS is being affected. But, I suspect that Busch Gardens, Sea World, Legoland, etc. are feeling the impact as much, if not more than DHS.
willtravel
Well-Known Member
Was the Yeti at WDW the answer to King Kong at UNI? I know they are two different type of attractions but I was just comparing the two beasts and there size.
Busch, SWO, and LEGOLAND don't quite target the same guests Disney does. Yes of course there is lots of spillover and these parks are always to take a day away from a Disney trip, but no one is booking trips and flying halfway across the world to go to Busch Gardens or LEGOLAND. Sea World, actually to a degree, is more of a destination park than the other two but still has its own audience.
Universal Orlando basically demoted themselves to this 2nd tier when Rank Group gave up on the resort after initial IOA's financial woes. Universal Orlando re-establishing itself as an undisputable tier 1/world class theme park will have a dramatic, long lasting, and very different impact on WDW's business than anything else that has come before.
When IOA opened in 1999, Disney had both RnRC and Test Track coming online in the very same year. RnRC was a direct and rapid response to IOA, the other ended up being a bit of a happy accident as Test Track's delays gave Epcot a serious edge when it needed it. Kali River Rapids also opened at DAK on the very same year, keeping that still brand new gate looking fresh against the new competition in IOA.
Things aren't the same in 2013, and they sure as hell won't be the same in 2015.
That's why this time it's different.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
You are right, I was exaggerating. Potter has undoubtedly changed traffic patterns however. The drop in ridership of Magical Express supports this.
Spot on... but I think we already have. It will accelerate going forward.
El Grupo
Well-Known Member
Having read quite a few of your posts, I respect your opinion. With that said, I'd appreciate hearing your projections on how much attendance would be impacted if Disney...
A) neither announced or began any major changes/additions for DHS in the in the next three years,
B) announced/began moderate changes/additions in the next year with some completions by 2016 (an E-ticket and possibly a dark ride),
C) fast-tracks major upgrades to the park with one new land (e.g., SW) and 2 or more additions to Pixar in the next 3 - 4 years
As long-time fans of WDW, investors in TWDC and former employees with the Mouse (not P & R), my wife and I would naturally want to see C. IMO, it seems to be the logical step for so many reasons. However, I'm far from convinced that A would bury the park.
A.) Would bury the park. DHS would be forever consigned to the under 5 million realm of annual attendance. This will force option C. Universal is going to kill them on value perception if DHS does nothing. Universal is going to kill them on value perception at all four parks in 2014, but MK is the tentpole of an Orlando vacation and will not have the floor swept out from under them as fast as at their other parks. However, if Uni is building a new E-ticket at IOA as well as Kong for USF in 2015, I don't see how MK doesn't suffer a noticeable decline in attendance as well.
B.) Would have more of a negative impact on attendance than doing nothing in the short term but would be in the service of a greater good.
C.) Saves DHS from becoming irrelevant and gives them footing to maintain the 7 million/yr level they experience now and probably grow back to 9 mil/yr which is where DHS was cruising at before DAK opened. However the combination of this plus Avatar at DAK is going to crush Epcot. MK also will be seeing significant declines by 2017 because of Universal Orlando pressure.
We didn't get here overnight. Disney chose to pile $2 billion resources into an IT program at the same time Universal piled the same amount of money into new rides. Disney won't be able to fix this overnight and I don't there is ANYTHING they can do to stop the "great rotation" of guests over to UO over the next two years. They're screwed.
Maybe in 5-7 years after WDC management either retires or is ousted we will be writing about the great WDW comeback story. But the next few years are going to be brutal. Especially with Disney making so many poor operational changes (re: MyMagic+) at the same time Uni is giving people what they want: new rides.
B.) Would have more of a negative impact on attendance than doing nothing in the short term but would be in the service of a greater good.
C.) Saves DHS from becoming irrelevant and gives them footing to maintain the 7 million/yr level they experience now and probably grow back to 9 mil/yr which is where DHS was cruising at before DAK opened. However the combination of this plus Avatar at DAK is going to crush Epcot. MK also will be seeing significant declines by 2017 because of Universal Orlando pressure.
We didn't get here overnight. Disney chose to pile $2 billion resources into an IT program at the same time Universal piled the same amount of money into new rides. Disney won't be able to fix this overnight and I don't there is ANYTHING they can do to stop the "great rotation" of guests over to UO over the next two years. They're screwed.
Maybe in 5-7 years after WDC management either retires or is ousted we will be writing about the great WDW comeback story. But the next few years are going to be brutal. Especially with Disney making so many poor operational changes (re: MyMagic+) at the same time Uni is giving people what they want: new rides.
Computer Magic
Well-Known Member
I might be the exception but I haven't been to IOA. With all UNI doing may change my mind. This would require how I get around at Disney in order to spend 2 days at UNI, ie rent a car, shuttle Mears, or Taxi. Or maybe even change resorts with a partial stay at a UNI resorts. Changing resorts would most like be my option so not to have to have a car. a 7 day trip at WDW would change to 5 days at WDW and 2 at UNI. I would give up DHS and probably MK.
bubbles1812
Well-Known Member
Mears worked really well for my mom and I in February, just in case you decide you don't want to switch resorts (though I can't praise enough the Uni hotels... Never had a bad stay). They come pick you up when they say, and then you call when you are ready to be picked up. Never were late or anything.
Computer Magic
Well-Known Member
Thanks! You stating how easy it is just shows how Disney is losing days to UNI. Even someone who never saw a HP film sees a need to visit, if for no other reason to have a beer a Moe's
HMF
Well-Known Member
I really hope you are right. After Tony Baxter's ousting and the details of MyMagic+ came out I came really close to losing any hope that there was any chance of better days ahead for WDW.
Computer Magic
Well-Known Member
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
1. Population growth in the US has, over decades, increased attendance at WDW.
2. Retiring baby-boomers with more time/money for vacations.
3. Recovering economy.
4. Increased tourism, overall, into Orlando resulting in a rising tide for all boats.
DHS attendance was 9.9 million in 2012, that's about 10 million to you and me.
Ah, nice to see the all-volunteer Ministry of Truth is out in full force tonight.
You know, I come here and post provocative things because I know there is a large audience that will disagree with me. I'm totally cool with that. Apparently there are also a lot of people here who happen to agree with me. That's awesome too. But if I want to surround myself with people who agree with me, that is easy enough for me to do in my real life. I come here because I am seeking/observing different opinions, perspectives, and also to debate. Debate is fun. Especially with professionals who have been working in themed entertainment for far longer than I have.
But, @Pixiedustmaker, I will not debate with a rank amateur who regurgitates bullet points from presentations and/or communications from which they barely understand. I commend you for your talent to consume and store vast amounts of facts. That's a nice ability to have. Your capability to apply those facts to actual working knowledge of the real world, particularly with respect to themed entertainment, is lamentable.
You know, I come here and post provocative things because I know there is a large audience that will disagree with me. I'm totally cool with that. Apparently there are also a lot of people here who happen to agree with me. That's awesome too. But if I want to surround myself with people who agree with me, that is easy enough for me to do in my real life. I come here because I am seeking/observing different opinions, perspectives, and also to debate. Debate is fun. Especially with professionals who have been working in themed entertainment for far longer than I have.
But, @Pixiedustmaker, I will not debate with a rank amateur who regurgitates bullet points from presentations and/or communications from which they barely understand. I commend you for your talent to consume and store vast amounts of facts. That's a nice ability to have. Your capability to apply those facts to actual working knowledge of the real world, particularly with respect to themed entertainment, is lamentable.