Ratatouille to open around the Spring of 2020. I've seen 40 story buildings built in less time. Anyone have any idea why their projects take so long to complete?
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Why does it take so long to complete a Disney project
- Thread starter POLY LOVER
- Start date
DisAl
Well-Known Member
Sometimes I wonder if WDW is managed using the "Dilbert" comic strip as their management model.
Of course, that seems to be the case with many large companies.....
The other side of that coin is "anything is easy if you don't know what it takes to do it." Any large project has about a hundred hoops to jump through from financial to regulatory.
Of course, that seems to be the case with many large companies.....
The other side of that coin is "anything is easy if you don't know what it takes to do it." Any large project has about a hundred hoops to jump through from financial to regulatory.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
The other big factor is when they want it to open. In other words spacing out new attractions to insure continued attendance and not overwhelming any single park. However, what was just said by @DisAl it takes a lot less time to build a straight 40 story building so that it looks finished. However, with the degree of detail involved with a ride like this, the finish work could take two to three times longer then the structure itself.
JIMINYCR
Well-Known Member
Disney always seems to take an extended time when theres a new project. It is frustrating seeing things go up so slowly, viewing the snail paced progress from arial photos and pics taken from behind scrim and construction walls. Well looking at the site plans, it is quite a large project that involves over 5 acres of land, involving extensive demolition, building access roads, retention ponds, new paving, site work preparing for new building, then building the attraction building, shops, etc. And we all know construction always has plan changes and unknown issues that delay progess. Then I'm sure theres more safety codes involved with an attraction than a normal office building since youre dealing with such a large population flowing through the site daily. At least its past the rumor and talking phase.
Raineman
Well-Known Member
Agreed-I would imagine completing the set pieces and engineering the ride system would take longer than just throwing the show building up, as well as any other detail, as you said. Basically, whatever parts of the attraction that WDI is directly involved in will take the longest to complete, as opposed to simple building construction.
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
While I dont work on WDW projects, so I can not say for certain, I have worked on a number of other large project for companies the same size as Disney (not WDW, Dinsey)
I suspect that many of the items used in a project such as this are not stock items that Disney has in whatever inventory/ordering system that they use. It's not like putting in an order for new garbage cans, or bolts, or paving, which I asume they have agrees upon, contractural, prices with their suppliers, and those items can be orderd directly. This is all custom orders, that need to be negotiated, contracted, and then those contracts executed. IF they are bringing in any new contractors, then those contractors have to agree to DIsney's terms and conditionas, including things such as safety, securty, NDA's, and other mundane, but time consuming items. When it comes to a new product or offering, it can take a long time to get everything written up and agreed to.
When you are bulding a 40 story building, most of the paperwork is boilerplate, and is arranged before ground is even broken. There may be years that go on before you see the first sign of construction, then it goes quickly. I have a project right now that is taking forever, because of permitting. Structural design and contractos are already arranged. Once we start, from the standpoint of a "person on the street" its going to take 3 months to complete, but we have been working on it for over 2 years now.
-dave
I suspect that many of the items used in a project such as this are not stock items that Disney has in whatever inventory/ordering system that they use. It's not like putting in an order for new garbage cans, or bolts, or paving, which I asume they have agrees upon, contractural, prices with their suppliers, and those items can be orderd directly. This is all custom orders, that need to be negotiated, contracted, and then those contracts executed. IF they are bringing in any new contractors, then those contractors have to agree to DIsney's terms and conditionas, including things such as safety, securty, NDA's, and other mundane, but time consuming items. When it comes to a new product or offering, it can take a long time to get everything written up and agreed to.
When you are bulding a 40 story building, most of the paperwork is boilerplate, and is arranged before ground is even broken. There may be years that go on before you see the first sign of construction, then it goes quickly. I have a project right now that is taking forever, because of permitting. Structural design and contractos are already arranged. Once we start, from the standpoint of a "person on the street" its going to take 3 months to complete, but we have been working on it for over 2 years now.
-dave
dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that Disney seems to have a habit of spreading costs out over quarters or fiscal years. They may indeed be able to build an attraction in 18 months instead of 30 months, but being able to spread the costs over another year can be very attractive to the numbers guys. And unlike a restaurant, you usually can't show definite proof of sales/loss from an attraction. Will SWL not opening sooner cause some people to push vacations back? Probably. Can WDW prove that? Not very easily. Hotels are still filled, parks are still busy, no verifiable need to rush through construction.
And unlike a 40 story building, attractions aren't an easily known predictable project. Building a building you have crew A run wires on floor 1, then they move to floor 2, run wires while crew B comes in to lay floor on floor 1. They all then shift up and crew C comes in to lay drywall on floor 1, etc. So it's much easier to waterfall your build than with something as unique as a customized attraction. Now admittedly the core of the attraction is just a big warehouse building, all the other bits and pieces are usually more involved and either need custom parts as @Phonedave mentioned, or require a different skill set. How many people are there who do fake rock work for instance?
Could they go faster? Probably. Is it worth it? Probably not. They have alot of stuff coming down the pipes, and don't want it to all open at once.
And unlike a 40 story building, attractions aren't an easily known predictable project. Building a building you have crew A run wires on floor 1, then they move to floor 2, run wires while crew B comes in to lay floor on floor 1. They all then shift up and crew C comes in to lay drywall on floor 1, etc. So it's much easier to waterfall your build than with something as unique as a customized attraction. Now admittedly the core of the attraction is just a big warehouse building, all the other bits and pieces are usually more involved and either need custom parts as @Phonedave mentioned, or require a different skill set. How many people are there who do fake rock work for instance?
Could they go faster? Probably. Is it worth it? Probably not. They have alot of stuff coming down the pipes, and don't want it to all open at once.
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
Good point about the financial aspects. I have been asked to shift things to other years as well. I have also been asked to spend more money in a given year. Now is about the time of the year I get the "how much more work can your contractors complete this year, has to be done and booked by the end of the year" questions.
-dave
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Once again, this is considered a capital investment, not an expense. When the actually account for the expense is over many years. Some real time expenses may be done during some specific quarter or fiscal period, but, it never counts as an expense other then depreciation deductions on taxes. Over 20 or more years. They can't even take advantage of that until it is open and generating income. It is a simplistic excuse, but, not a valid one. They have other reasons and it may be timing or even something as simple as staffing a particular attraction to stay within theme. It's not at all like paying Salaries or buying office supplies. Almost all expense in a construction project, is just a transfer from cash to a capital asset. Interest on that project may be counted as an expense if it is done with borrowed money, but, just the interest. The actual physical asset will increase the Net Worth, but, have nothing to do with expense until depreciation kicks in.
As you said... timing is probably the biggest, most valid reason if they are dragging their feet, but, it really cannot be called dragging when the timing is planned.
DisAl
Well-Known Member
Someone alluded to this earlier, but while 90% of a "regular" building is off the shelf standard material, a WDW attraction other than the building itself is probably 90% custom design, engineering, and fabrication. Nobody keeps Slinky Dog roller coasters or Millennium Falcons in stock.
The swamps that were Walt Disney World began to be cleared and drained in 1967, and Magic Kingdom opened four years later in 1971. This included the utilidoors under Magic Kingdom, the lakes and canals around Magic Kingdom, the monorail, miles of roads, acres of parking lots, the Contemporary, the Polynesian, Fort Wilderness, and two golf courses. Disneyland took about a year to build. Epcot took about 3 years to build. None of this was off the shelf, and the accountants were not fiscal-yearing the deadline of the projects. Accountants kept the books, they didn't hold the books ransom for tax purposes.
The timelines for new Disney projects are insane. To build Magic Kingdom now would probably take a decade given whatever slothful business practices are in place. Where's the urgency? Where's the military whip-cracker who knows how to get things done? Truly, the bureaucrats have conquered, and the bogging down with meetings and other painstaking deliberatia have poisoned a once fast-moving and responsive organization.
The timelines for new Disney projects are insane. To build Magic Kingdom now would probably take a decade given whatever slothful business practices are in place. Where's the urgency? Where's the military whip-cracker who knows how to get things done? Truly, the bureaucrats have conquered, and the bogging down with meetings and other painstaking deliberatia have poisoned a once fast-moving and responsive organization.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Disney is a huge company with lots of stakeholders. Even a very, very small project will have a small army of employees and consultants working on it.
The perception of slowness is also not helped by announcing projects before the traditional phases of design are complete.
The perception of slowness is also not helped by announcing projects before the traditional phases of design are complete.
There are a lot of good reasons listed but I don't buy it. There is something called pre-planning, ordering etc. now if there is no pre-planning and they are being reactionary because they allowed the parks to age at the same rate and now they need to scramble then it's going to take a long time. A company once known for doing amazing things now just seems ordinary. If I had the conditions that exist say at DHS I would not take years to get my project on line. I would be bringing all hands on deck and cracking the whip.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Pre-plan and order what?
Layers of bureaucracy. Miles of red tape. No one person has unquestioned authority to get things done. "Stuck in committee" has become a valid excuse for doing nothing.
"Ready-fire-aim" has been replaced with, "Ready--not yet--ready some more--question the readiness--start over--wait for the accountants to give the go ahead--make some excuses--wait for someone to get back from maternity or paternity leave--get 27 people to sign off--go to the Board--table the issue--go to the Board again--go to the other Boards--clear it with 23 Department heads--do some more testing--cover your butt--make a hundred contingency plans for mistakes that could not possibly occur--extend the timeline by a couple years--do a marketing study--do another marketing study--tip toe--blame Trump--and maybe, just maybe, assuming the weather, the contractors, the environmental Czar, and the accountants all give grudging approval--schedule ground-breaking for 6 to 9 months out."
If Walt had worked that way, he never would've gotten past Oswald and Alice.
"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." Walt Disney.
"Ready-fire-aim" has been replaced with, "Ready--not yet--ready some more--question the readiness--start over--wait for the accountants to give the go ahead--make some excuses--wait for someone to get back from maternity or paternity leave--get 27 people to sign off--go to the Board--table the issue--go to the Board again--go to the other Boards--clear it with 23 Department heads--do some more testing--cover your butt--make a hundred contingency plans for mistakes that could not possibly occur--extend the timeline by a couple years--do a marketing study--do another marketing study--tip toe--blame Trump--and maybe, just maybe, assuming the weather, the contractors, the environmental Czar, and the accountants all give grudging approval--schedule ground-breaking for 6 to 9 months out."
If Walt had worked that way, he never would've gotten past Oswald and Alice.
"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." Walt Disney.
Damon7777
Well-Known Member
attraction replication............Rat Remy already exists in Paris. I expect engineering/R&D/planning and construction costs will be dramatically lower than if this thing were unique.
You have been given several reasons, all valid and correct by a number of people not only tight with Disney, but familiar with large scale construction projects, and yet you don't believe them. Seems like to only answer you would accept is your preconceived notion that the Disney of old was great and the Disney of today sucks.