Why do you believe WDW has gone downhill?

[TrojanUSC]

We went to Disney in 72 and 77/78. I can still remember our parents buying me and my brother muskets at POTC. They came caps and little cork balls that actually shot out of the barrel. They were wood and metal. You will never find anything like that on property again. I wish I still had mine.

That's kind of two issues. Muskets are not sold partly due to security reasons now, but the bigger point is that stores now no longer sell unique, themed merchandise. It is all the same t-shirts, hats, etc.

 

[Hockey89]

I knew eventually, when discussing the DDP, someone would blame the perceived decrease in food quality on those of us who continue to use the DDP, and here we are. I'm gonna take the high road here and just say that's your opinion, and have a nice day.

It's not perceived. The food quality is not close to what it once was at signature places... The reason is simple.... If you need an economics lesson or price point per plate, ect, we can have it... Facts don't care about your feelings

 

[flynnibus]

We do see it as a convenience, but mostly because of budgeting, which I would imagine many families have to do for a WDW trip. Everyone already knows the main cost of trip far in advance-airfare/transportation cost, park tickets, hotels, etc. We have a finite amount of money we can spend on a WDW trip, which means that our meal budget is a finite amount as well. With the DDP, that finite amount is set when we book our visit-no matter what we order,

Exactly as I said above.. you are over-buying and over-paying for the guise of risk aversion. But it's purely a fabricated belief - created by the artificial boosting of a la carte pricing. You are buying into the artificial belief of "no need to worry".

The DDP started as a premium 'all inclusive' model, but instead of selling it as the special offer... Disney moved to make DDP the dominate offer with a high attach rate. This push to guaranteed revenue per guest has had the tail wag the dog... making the dining operations as a whole bend to fit within this umbrella pricing model at scale, rather than operate with unique goals.

The concern about 'overspending' on food and being protected by DDP isn't a major concern - until Disney made it one by driving prices so redonkulous to make the DDP look better. If you were dining based on your NORMAL behaviors... you'd regulate yourself as you do every other day of your life.

I really don't overbuying 100% of the time to avoid maybe overspending some of the time is a great fiscal strategy.

As for credit cards.. you still had to pay off DDP too.

I totally get people like the idea of 'paid off, so don't have to worry about it' -- but that doesn't nullify the weak value or the impact it has had on the product. Like I said, this is all about the psychology of promoting 'do not have to worry' and the false narrative that it's a value.

I don't blame people for taking advantage of an offer the product company offers. But I do blame them if they can't step back from their choices and objectively evaluate things. It's fine if people are willing to 'pay to make a problem go away' - but they should be cognizant that's what they are doing.

You can not care about something... but that's not the same as not being aware of something

 

[eliza61nyc]

Exactly as I said above.. you are over-buying and over-paying for the guise of risk aversion. But it's purely a fabricated belief - created by the artificial boosting of a la carte pricing. You are buying into the artificial belief of "no need to worry".

The DDP started as a premium 'all inclusive' model, but instead of selling it as the special offer... Disney moved to make DDP the dominate offer with a high attach rate. This push to guaranteed revenue per guest has had the tail wag the dog... making the dining operations as a whole bend to fit within this umbrella pricing model at scale, rather than operate with unique goals.

The concern about 'overspending' on food and being protected by DDP isn't a major concern - until Disney made it one by driving prices so redonkulous to make the DDP look better. If you were dining based on your NORMAL behaviors... you'd regulate yourself as you do every other day of your life.

I really don't overbuying 100% of the time to avoid maybe overspending some of the time is a great fiscal strategy.

As for credit cards.. you still had to pay off DDP too.

I totally get people like the idea of 'paid off, so don't have to worry about it' -- but that doesn't nullify the weak value or the impact it has had on the product. Like I said, this is all about the psychology of promoting 'do not have to worry' and the false narrative that it's a value.

I don't blame people for taking advantage of an offer the product company offers. But I do blame them if they can't step back from their choices and objectively evaluate things. It's fine if people are willing to 'pay to make a problem go away' - but they should be cognizant that's what they are doing.

You can not care about something... but that's not the same as not being aware of something

Why do you assume they are not aware??
I'm not sure i buy into this perception that the folks who do things we don't like are some how clueless slubs. I very much think the folks who sign up do the math and feel thats the way the want to go.

So are you saying that people who purchase the Ddp cannot possibly know why it has value for them? Or that Disney has some how tricked then into purchasing it?

Could it also be that many people Dont want to regulate themselves like everyday on vacation. For many the point of vacation is to do, see, eat and play in the way you never do in real life.

Again I don't get the ddp just regurgitating the responses from folks i know who do and I think they are fully aware of the cost vs value.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

But the gap guy made it more like Walmart, and less Disney.. and 15+ years later.. we are still suffering the consequences.

Who is 'suffering' what, now?

Ok we'll have to disagree because around here from vacation gear to your insulin . On line shopping is killing it.
Hell every supermarket has shop at home services.
Every trip I hear someone say "I can get that online cheaper "

Aint a darn soul I know shopping for the "experience".

As the owner of a store that just expanded to two locations...it's all about perspective!

death nail

*death knell

 

[Raineman]

It's not perceived. The food quality is not close to what it once was at signature places... The reason is simple.... If you need an economics lesson or price point per plate, ect, we can have it... Facts don't care about your feelings

How is a decrease in food quality a fact, and not perception? This is yet another example of opinion being stated as fact. I have yet to see a metric that measures food quality-if there is one, please point me to it and to the related food quality data at WDW over a certain time period. If you give the exact same meal to any number of people, you will always get differing opinions on how much they enjoyed it-just like if you asked any number of regular WDW visitors if they think the food quality has decreased, you will also get differing opinions. If anyone says that they think the food quality has decreased, or that the DDP is at fault, I don't have a problem with that-but that is simply opinion, not fact, just as the differing opinion that the food quality is still good is not a fact, just as anyone's opinion on whether they think WDW has gone downhill is not a fact. That's why it's perceived. There is no "feelings" involved here, it's simple logic.

 

[LeighM]

I've gotten the DDP for 4 out of 5 trips - 2 of those were with free dining. The first was our first trip as adults and the DDP was a total waste of money. We were so caught up in the moment that we didn't use most of the snacks and because it was a last minute trip, we weren't able to get reservations at the places where you can really save. However, our next trips we either broke even with the DDP or actually saved money. Because they were bounce back trips, we locked in the current cost of dining instead of paying the increased costs that came later in the year. Plus, during those trips we ate at more character buffets and family style dining so we really did save money, including using the snack credits for the more expensive items at the kiosks for Food and Wine Festival. But our last trip with our in laws, we only had a few table service reservations because we wanted to focus more on the quick service options. In that scenario, it would've made no sense for us to get any type of dining plan. Especially when we could get 10% off some of those table service restaurants using the Disney Visa discount. When my friend went to WDW with her boys, they were talked into the deluxe dining plan. I tried to convince her that it was way too much food for a family with young kids that was going for their very first time but she listened to the friend that had been frequently. They lost money with the DDP that year but the next time they went, they saved money on the DDP because they went to more buffets where their growing boys could eat to their heart's content lol. There are so many variables to consider with the DDP that it really isn't a one size fits all.

 

[TwilightZone]

I wonder if OP ever wrote that essay considering how many replies this is getting...

 

[GeoffR]

Replacing park photographers with machines....there's a real-time example of them going downhil. Honestly, what are they thinking!? Wow

 

[MAGICFLOP]

Personally, I have never looked for the most expensive entree on the menu while using the DDP-I just order what sounds good to me or something that I’ve had before and liked. If I ever did get the top priced entree, it was only because I wanted to try it. There definitely are some people who will do that every time to “get their moneys worth”, but that doesn’t even enter my mind, TBH. I have never used the DDP as a money saving feature, it just allows me to know months ahead of time exactly what I’m going to pay for meals at WDW. It’s all a matter of choice, really.

I get where you are coming from but, my impression (maybe wrong) was that if you did not order the most expensive menu items, financially it did not pay for itself. If let say you paid $300 (made up number) for DDP, but you ordered mid range priced menu items, that same scenario would have only come to $250 out of pocket. You would certainly know better than I, because I never bought the DDP. I just know that I can't eat a sit down, counter and snack in one day.. I usually have a huge sit down at about 1pm and am full for the rest of the day.

 

[Miss Bella]

I really don't think there is right or wrong answer here. Dining plan or no dining plan it's your vacation your money.

 

[Soarin2u]

If you ask for reasons people think Disney has started going downhill you can't say but don't tell me about crowds and prices. The crowds and prices are the biggest complaint to most people and a very valid one. Imagine a park 15 or 20 years ago with a third less people than you have today, and imagine it cost less even when adjusting for inflation... That's a darned good reason to think things have gone downhill.... Then factor in the increase in the number of strollers and mobility scooters and even if the attendance had stayed static the amount of space you have has shrunk.... and all of this cost more....

It doesn't matter to me that the food quality has dropped because I don't have to eat their food when I go... but I do have to pay the admission price and deal with the crowds so the only thing that really hits some people like myself is the increased crowds along with increased prices.

Now if you want specifics on other things that have gone down hill... look at the merchandise. 10 years ago we had to buy out daughter a costume at the last minute because the suitcase with it got lost and the Halloween party was the day we arrived... Okay, we paid a significant premium at the resort for a costume, but it was a very well made costume several levels above what you would get in a walmart or typical halloween costume shop.... Now years later you don't see that level of costumes in the resorts or shops instead you see the same cheap junk you could buy in a Walmart for a fraction of the price. So here is a prime example of where the prices went up and the quality of what you get has dropped significantly.

Or here's another sign of cheapness... when I was a kid and my parents took he to Disney there were shops that had really cool stuff that you just couldn't find in your local neighborhood stores. I remember they had things like Corgi metal cars, nothing about them was Disney themed they were just really highly detailed and cool looking that you would just not see in most stores in the US. Now you don't find anything cool you just find cheap Disney related junk tied to the ride that shop happens to be near the exit of. Today if the item isn't slapped with some Disney logo or character you just don't see it in the parks.

I do want to point out that I stated I didn't want crowds and ticket prices because I needed a variety of answers. I figured those would be the most common and already presumed they'd be on most everyones list. And I don't just need two counterarguments, I needed multiple areas to argue. And the more specific they were, the better meat it gives me to work with. Just saying, "The crowds and ticket prices ruined Disney for me," gives me nothing special or new. Its a rather bland opinion is all. I even clarified that if you have a unique reason for not liking the crowd/prices then I'm happy with those like with what Wendy Lady provided about the cost-to-value ratio. But its a forum and I'm the one writing the essay, not all of you. Therefore, I don't expect people to comply with what I'm asking. At the end of the day as long as I get enough areas I can refute, I'm happy.

Oh, I never thought about the mobility scooters. I can use that! Only issue is that as CM, I really didn't like them, least after having it be my job to move them during the lunch rush for hours. It's not the scooters in theory, its what people do with them. And many unfortunately don't know where to park them. I had soooo many upset guests in my face after I was required to move them... so many. So, so, so many. So many. I still have nightmares... "Please sir, don't park your ECV in front of an Exit, it's a fire emergency hazard." "Ma'am I'm sorry but your stroller was in the middle of the ramp, I just moved it outside..." *shudders*

 

[Miss Bella]

I do want to point out that I stated I didn't want crowds and ticket prices because I needed a variety of answers. I figured those would be the most common and already presumed they'd be on most everyones list. And I don't just need two counterarguments, I needed multiple areas to argue. And the more specific they were, the better meat it gives me to work with. Just saying, "The crowds and ticket prices ruined Disney for me," gives me nothing special or new. Its a rather bland opinion is all. I even clarified that if you have a unique reason for not liking the crowd/prices then I'm happy with those like with what Wendy Lady provided about the cost-to-value ratio. But its a forum and I'm the one writing the essay, not all of you. Therefore, I don't expect people to comply with what I'm asking. At the end of the day as long as I get enough areas I can refute, I'm happy.

Oh, I never thought about the mobility scooters. I can use that! Only issue is that as CM, I really didn't like them, least after having it be my job to move them during the lunch rush for hours. It's not the scooters in theory, its what people do with them. And many unfortunately don't know where to park them. I had soooo many upset guests in my face after I was required to move them... so many. So, so, so many. So many. I still have nightmares... "Please sir, don't park your ECV in front of an Exit, it's a fire emergency hazard." "Ma'am I'm sorry but your stroller was in the middle of the ramp, I just moved it outside..." *shudders*

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but fast pass plus is probably the biggest negative for me. The standby wait times are ridiculous. It's nearly impossible to ride anything without a fast pass. We used to show up at rope drop, ride everything by noon, grab a few fast passes to ride our favorites a second time, and be back at the resort and in the pool by two. Now you have to plan your fast passes 60 days out. There's no spontaneity, no changing plans. My other pet peeve is charging guests for cancelling dining reservations within 24 hours. God forbid you have a headache, a sick kid or maybe you just don't feel like risking your life walking through a lightening storm.

 

[Soarin2u]

I wonder if OP ever wrote that essay considering how many replies this is getting...

Still writing. It's a final. It's big. I chose a massive topic. I like the rambling, it's good stuff to work with.
However, the point of the essay was never say any these points are wrong, rather I personally concede on most, but this was to almost play devils advocate. That and its also redirecting the blame to culture and crowds for most changes.

I'm also obviously not addressing everything said. No need to address all the complaints about crowds 10 times. So really, when you narrow it down the arguments are fewer. That and I state clearly in my essay that I can't go over every complaint and that'll I focus my attention on the ones brought up the most frequently.

 

[Raineman]

I get where you are coming from but, my impression (maybe wrong) was that if you did not order the most expensive menu items, financially it did not pay for itself. If let say you paid $300 (made up number) for DDP, but you ordered mid range priced menu items, that same scenario would have only come to $250 out of pocket. You would certainly know better than I, because I never bought the DDP. I just know that I can't eat a sit down, counter and snack in one day.. I usually have a huge sit down at about 1pm and am full for the rest of the day.

We always have breakfast at the resort around 8:00 (QS), and don’t eat again until at least 4:00-5:00 (TS), and we usually use our snack credits for drinks. There’s no way we could eat a lunch too, especially with all the walking and the heat.

 

[xdan0920]

Still writing. It's a final. It's big. I chose a massive topic. I like the rambling, it's good stuff to work with.
However, the point of the essay was never say any these points are wrong, rather I personally concede on most, but this was to almost play devils advocate. That and its also redirecting the blame to culture and crowds for most changes.

I'm also obviously not addressing everything said. No need to address all the complaints about crowds 10 times. So really, when you narrow it down the arguments are fewer. That and I state clearly in my essay that I can't go over every complaint and that'll I focus my attention on the ones brought up the most frequently.

I just got back from 5 days. I think I have narrowed down the biggest issue with Dizzy Werld.

The operations team either....

A. Has completely forgotten how to manage crowds.

B. Has completely changed their crowd management style for the worse.

C. Some combination of A and B.

I visited all four parks, and at a not very busy time, and it felt like the middle of Spring Break most of the time.

The attractions are understaffed and operating far below capacity. This drives up the wait times, which in turn drives more guests into the pathways as they search for an attraction with a reasonable wait. So now you are waiting longer to ride, and trudging through New Years Eve level crowds in the street all the time.

I know there are more guests now, but there on a daily level, it's not a huge increase. Disney however has lost the ability to mange these guests. Or perhaps they've simply stopped caring about it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I just got back from 5 days. I think I have narrowed down the biggest issue with Dizzy Werld.

The operations team either....

A. Has completely forgotten how to manage crowds.

B. Has completely changed their crowd management style for the worse.

C. Some combination of A and B.

I visited all four parks, and at a not very busy time, and it felt like the middle of Spring Break most of the time.

The attractions are understaffed and operating far below capacity. This drives up the wait times, which in turn drives more guests into the pathways as they search for an attraction with a reasonable wait. So now you are waiting longer to ride, and trudging through New Years Eve level crowds in the street all the time.

I know there are more guests now, but there on a daily level, it's not a huge increase. Disney however has lost the ability to mange these guests. Or perhaps they've simply stopped caring about it.

A friend was there this weekend and had to wait 30 minutes for food at Pinnochio Village Haus. This was 30 minutes after ordering. The place was slammed full of people but they only had half the kitchen open.

 

[John park hopper]

I

A friend was there this weekend and had to wait 30 minutes for food at Pinnochio Village Haus. This was 30 minutes after ordering. The place was slammed full of people but they only had half the kitchen open.

WDW reminds me of my time in the military ------Hurry up and wait and wait and wait

 

[MAGICFLOP]

Why do you assume they are not aware??
I'm not sure i buy into this perception that the folks who do things we don't like are some how clueless slubs. I very much think the folks who sign up do the math and feel thats the way the want to go.

So are you saying that people who purchase the Ddp cannot possibly know why it has value for them? Or that Disney has some how tricked then into purchasing it?

Could it also be that many people Dont want to regulate themselves like everyday on vacation. For many the point of vacation is to do, see, eat and play in the way you never do in real life.

Again I don't get the ddp just regurgitating the responses from folks i know who do and I think they are fully aware of the cost vs value.

Not trying to be argumentative, just a point. I don't think anybody feels Disney is tricking them with Ddp, it just another service offered. As you point out, valet parking is another, value to one is not to another. Ddp does not deregulate one on vacation, the same could be accomplished with just handing a credit card or room key (band /device) to the waiter/kiosk and have at it.. but many in here seem to go multiple times per year and need to regulate to a degree.

 

[DisAl]

They just took another big slide down the hill with the elimination of live photopass photographers at some of the character meet and greets. No more Memory Maker for us.....