Why Do People Struggle So Much With Snack Prices?

[flynnibus]

You can't define success any way you want. Success is pretty clearly defined in capitalism. It is not happy employees. It is not a good retirement package. Those things can be a factor or contribute to profit, I agree there. But don't put the cart before the horse.

I don't define it anyway I want - but I do argue there is more than one measurement.

Can success not be measured by impact? If you were to create a cure for lukemia, but failed to maximize revenue... is your company a failure?
If your company returned maximum profits, but only lasted 3 years... is that success compared to a company that returned less profit margin, but managed to operate and return dividends for 50 years?
If your company maximized profits, but never returned any investor return because a scandal drove the stock to zero, is it success?
Which is success? $10 for one day, or $5 for 100 days?

Where I am a little shaky comprehension wise is when and exactly why profit degree changed. Profit has always been there, but the pressure to maximize seems to have evolved to an extreme. ....recently.

It came with the expansion of who can be in the market, the speed of information, the speed of trades, and expansion of the idea that wealth can be made from simply properly timed transactions rather than actual company performance. This puts all the pressure on stock price, and GROWTH rather than actual company health or performance.

 

[Dead2009]

I am a GIGANTIC Cowboys fan, don't you worry. I absolutely can't wait for this season, although I am skeptical of the draft...

I'm....I'm so sorry.

 

[jaklgreen]

I went to my local zoo today. Their dasani water was $3.25. Nobody complained that I heard.

 

[DarthMileZ]

Haha people complaining about $3 water makes me laugh.

come over to london tourist locations where it can cost the equiv to $6+ dollars for a bottle of coca cola.

It's not just disney, most touristy places do the same thing because the demand is high.

take a trip to Walmart on arrival into orlando and stock up on cheap water, and take a bottle to the park every day and then use the fountains for refill

 

[Chef Mickey]

I guess they dropped SUSTAINABILITY 101 from your cherrished school's curriculum.. and any actual history classes.

How does your brain digest stories like Tesla's Model3 demand? Was Telsa's brand, image, and success driven by the idea that 'its only about the money'? Or do you think someone like Elon Musk is a complete idiot who clearly has no idea how to start and run business and product lines?

Let's talk about TSLA when the orders are delivered and they turn a profit. DIS and TSLA aren't on the same planet and DIS has been an incredible performer the last 6 years.

TSLA has lost money each year it's been in business and more than ever in 2015. The Model 3 is a low margin, $35,000 car and the electric car model is niche at best and low oil prices will hurt the business even more. At least use a better example.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Your world is a sad sad place.

You keep pointing to examples, including franchised monopolies (and usually companies with the lowest satisfaction ratings around... utilities) as examples of how the world should be and how everyone should just step up and accept this is the way things are.

I can't wait until you get steamrolled in your career and some day you are down and out.. and you need to keep telling anyone around you how great that business model is and everyone just needs to accept that soulless is the way going forward.

Not sure why you are getting personal or wishing failure upon my career, but I can assure you my resume will ensure I'm never out of a job.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Haha people complaining about $3 water makes me laugh.

come over to london tourist locations where it can cost the equiv to $6+ dollars for a bottle of coca cola.

It's not just disney, most touristy places do the same thing because the demand is high.

take a trip to Walmart on arrival into orlando and stock up on cheap water, and take a bottle to the park every day and then use the fountains for refill

Good job not addressing any of the point made.

 

[Minthorne]

Like any good drug dealer - start with cheaper prices and once they are hooked raise them! I need my Disney ice crack bar!!

 

[xdan0920]

Guys. I paid $54565 for a smart water today. You poor-Os would prob just cry about it. But I made it rain!!!

 

[flynnibus]

Let's talk about TSLA when the orders are delivered and they turn a profit. DIS and TSLA aren't on the same planet and DIS has been an incredible performer the last 6 years.

TSLA has lost money each year it's been in business and more than ever in 2015. The Model 3 is a low margin, $35,000 car and the electric car model is niche at best and low oil prices will hurt the business even more. At least use a better example.

Yes missed it entirely. Tesla is the perfect example of how profits are not the only motivation in business, and how a company can be considered successful without focusing only on investor returns through profits in the short term. By your arguments Elon musk must be the biggest failure in business... Yet tesla has a market cap of 30billion... Is trading at over 10x growth in less than 6 yrs... Just secured in the face of analysts how they have virtually infinite demand for their product...

All while putting profits in the backseat verse other strategic objectives.

From 2012 to now... Tesla has given investors 10x growth... Dis only 3x plus smaller divs

There is more than one way to drive "value" and focusing on profits above all else is not the universal law

 

[flynnibus]

Not sure why you are getting personal or wishing failure upon my career, but I can assure you my resume will ensure I'm never out of a job.

Ask all those AIG guys how strong their resume was and if that kept their job afloat

 

[Chef Mickey]

Ask all those AIG guys how strong their resume was and if that kept their job afloat

I know 7 people that were at AIG and they are all making more than ever.

 

[Minthorne]

I know 7 people that were at AIG and they are all making more than ever.

The other 32,453 are SoL

 

[Chef Mickey]

Yes missed it entirely. Tesla is the perfect example of how profits are not the only motivation in business, and how a company can be considered successful without focusing only on investor returns through profits in the short term. By your arguments Elon musk must be the biggest failure in business... Yet tesla has a market cap of 30billion... Is trading at over 10x growth in less than 6 yrs... Just secured in the face of analysts how they have virtually infinite demand for their product...

All while putting profits in the backseat verse other strategic objectives.

From 2012 to now... Tesla has given investors 10x growth... Dis only 3x plus smaller divs

There is more than one way to drive "value" and focusing on profits above all else is not the universal law

Oh believe me, TSLA wants to make profits and their investors expect them to given their infinite multiple. They CAN'T make profits at the moment because their product is hugely expensive, they can't scale up enough, and oil prices are destroying them. Their product also is still niche (LOL on "infinite" demand). You want a car you can't drive while it's charging? BTW, energy isn't free or green. They are only even somewhat relevant due to enormous government subsidies.

You're confusing a new company trying to prove a concept with a company that actually gives a crap about anything except money.

Every startup with a decent idea grows quickly. $30b? So what...GM is valued at under $50b AND made $10b in profit in 2015. The car business sucks, even if you make money.

Currently, they still lose money and have a ton going against them, including profitable car manufacturers with more resources and proven track records also in the electric space (BMW in particular), low oil prices, a product that is still a step backward from gasoline engines, and low margins.

 

[flynnibus]

You keep telling us you went to Wharton... Did you actually finish? Because I really can't believe 1/3rd of what you say is actually coming from an Ivy League business school graduate. Downplaying stock price because it's based on potential??? That's what all stock prices are and why prices move on what people think it will do in the future, not based on past performance.

And I used the term infinite because if the demand will far out pace you ability to ever really fulfill it... Then for all intents and purposes the demand is infinite because it will always be beyond your reach. Did they ever teach you limits in math?

And you still miss the critical portion of the case study - tesla is making decisions based on corporate ethos and strategic choices that are not putting profits #1 - yet are reliving what you insist is the only thing that matters... Shareholder value

 

[flynnibus]

Another example of how businesses grow or drive value without making it about the dollar and nothing else

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

When tesla opened up these patents they basically gave away huge amounts of assets in the intent of helping the industry become viable and push everyone forward... And in result push his agendas and company forward as well.

It's not just about squeezing margins and find customer breaking points on pricing!

 

[Siren]

I'll take a swallow out of a fountain to wet my whistle, but it's really pretty awful (and most times warm!). That $3 bottle of Dasani water is ice cold, tastes great, and is portable. Totally worth the $3 IMO.

And I'm not big on the option to get a free cup of ice water from a food kiosk. There are usually lines, and I'd have to wait in line just to get a CM to basically do me a favor. I'd rather just walk up to one of the big tubs and pull a bottle of water, even though I have to pay for it.

*One* bottle of water at the Super Bowl costs $7 -- you can purchase *two* bottles of Dasani at Disney for less with mad change to spare.

This is not a Disney gripe but a Coke gripe, as Dasani is nothing more than purified tap water. It gives me the heebie jeebies when I see people buy cases of (clearly labeled) purified water instead of spring water......

Flint, MI disagrees with you. It's not just tap water, it's filtered.

"In designing DASANI® to be the best tasting water, we start with the local water supply, which is then filtered by reverse osmosis to remove impurities. The purified water is then enhanced with a special blend of minerals for the pure, crisp, fresh taste that’s delightfully DASANI®."

I've seen this before, and I don't care. For me Dasani tastes better than any other water out there. I don't care if it's from a tap or from a spring, as long as it tastes like fresh water.

OMG, Dasani water is so darn good and the Dasani water in the parks are always perfectly cold. I love my bottled water so much, I'm like a water sommelier. LOL.

Also, Via Napoli has the best bottled water and their sparkling water is so good, IMO. I swear it has healing properties or something.

 

[YozhikRoth]

If a company repurchases half its shares, it's EPS will double and make your shares more valuable. 5 years later, no one is saying, "Well they used to have 2b shares versus today's 1b, so we don't care what the current EPS says." Share buybacks increase prices over time by reducing shares outstanding and increasing EPS. Ultimately, your shares are worth more.

You are missing the core point of my argument. If the company does nothing else, but uses free cash flow (or worse issues debt) to prop up EPS growth, how does that make the company any more valuable? Sure today my shares may be worth $55 instead of $35, but would the cash flow be better served improving the company? Share repurchases are a feasible alternative to dividends, as capital gains are taxed more favorably. Also on ANY earnings call, the CEO will discuss EPS both with and without the effect of share repurchases, splits and such. Otherwise, a less savvy investor may see a 100% growth in EPS vs. last year as a reflection of operations, rather than financing activities. EPS is a meaningful indicator, but only when viewed with other key metrics such as Debt/Equity, Return on Assets and such.

This snacks discussion is making me hungry........

 

[Incomudro]

I don't know about unfiltered water. But filtered water with minerals added back in (like Dasani) most definitely has a taste.

Oh believe me, TSLA wants to make profits and their investors expect them to given their infinite multiple. They CAN'T make profits at the moment because their product is hugely expensive, they can't scale up enough, and oil prices are destroying them. Their product also is still niche (LOL on "infinite" demand). You want a car you can't drive while it's charging? BTW, energy isn't free or green. They are only even somewhat relevant due to enormous government subsidies.

You're confusing a new company trying to prove a concept with a company that actually gives a crap about anything except money.

Every startup with a decent idea grows quickly. $30b? So what...GM is valued at under $50b AND made $10b in profit in 2015. The car business sucks, even if you make money.

Currently, they still lose money and have a ton going against them, including profitable car manufacturers with more resources and proven track records also in the electric space (BMW in particular), low oil prices, a product that is still a step backward from gasoline engines, and low margins.

Tesla is selling an electric vehicle to people for whom fuel prices are meaningless.
An electric toy for the well off.
As you said, a niche vehicle for a niche that barely exists.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Tesla is selling an electric vehicle to people for whom fuel prices are meaningless.
An electric toy for the well off.
As you said, a niche vehicle for a niche that barely exists.

Finally, someone that actually understands the company. A toy is the right word, not doubt. You see the single mom struggling to make ends meet buying a Tesla? Or any of the 47% of Americans paying no income tax? Or anyone in the south where commutes average 50+ miles roundtrip?

This Tesla can't even charge quickly enough to make it relevant, requires special charging stations, special outlets to even charge "quickly" (still takes over an hour for a 60 mile charge with a 240v connector and dual chargers w/ a retrofit in your garage). Don't have a garage or don't want to retrofit? It's going to cost $3.25, take 19 hours to charge, and only get you 60 miles on 120v. This is more expensive than gas.

BTW, a 60 mile charge costs around $2.50 (BEST case scenario, I mentioned $3.25 if you use 120v). With gas prices under $2, many gasoline cars get 40mpg, so you're looking at around 50 miles for $2.50 on gas versus 60 miles on electricity for $2.50.