Where is WDW's Summer Nightastic!?

[WDWFigment]

Okay, it's somewhat of a rhetorical question in that I know we aren't getting the amazing Summer Nightastic changes. I know the generally offered reasoning as to why DL gets seasonal makeovers is because annual passholders make up so much greater of the guest population, and DL needs this type of thing to continue attracting guests, or, alternatively, from the other crowd, because WDW's management is too cheap (...this thread is not meant to be an argument over which is the case).

That said, at what point in time do you anticipate this changing? WDW continues to build DVC resorts, and I think it's a safe presumption that these individuals are thus not once in a lifetime guests. Rather, many of them visit several times per year and even have annual passes. I think it would be a fair assertion that the AP percentage differential between DL and WDW has gradually began closing since 1992. At some point, it seems The Walt Disney Company would need to acknowledge this, and begin creating more seasonal offerings and plussing attractions (among other things) to keep these guests coming back to WDW.

I think the time to start that is now. Right now, Disney has the most DVC properties available (at WDW alone) that it has ever had. Saratoga Springs, Bay Lake Tower at the Contemporary, and the Animal Kingdom Villas all have large unsold inventories. Additionally, the resale market has the largest inventory that it has ever had, and prices both direct from Disney and via the resale market continue to drop to their lowest amounts in several years. It's quite easy to blame these numbers on the economy (and there is no denying that the economy is causing some of the decline), but why not take a different approach?

Rather than shrugging off the poor numbers as a result of the economy, why not adopt the DL tactic of creating seasonal offerings and plussing attractions? Market these changes as something WDW does to specifically appeal to those DVC members who want to visit yearly or even several times per year. (For those unfamiliar with DVC's current marketing strategy, it is solely aimed at looking at all of the places besides WDW that you can stay. However, these "outside offerings" (besides Vero Beach & Hilton Head Island) offer terrible value for your money, and most DVC members join to stay at WDW). I think at some point, WDW will have to adopt similar practices out of necessity, or they will begin to face an outflux of members (those who bought-in in the early 1990s) who have grown tired of WDW's offerings. However, when will that point occur? I don't think we've seen such an outflux yet, nor have WDW's AP numbers reached a high enough percentage of total guests that management believes they must adopt such a strategy out of necessity, but surely it isn't far away.

In closing, whether you love or hate all of the DVC properties being built, I think we should all appreciate DVC for what it offers to WDW that would never otherwise exist: demand for those "little things" that DL does to attract repeat visitors. Hopefully WDW adopts similar strategies soon!

 

[DisneyMusician2]

The real question is whether Disney will drop entry prices on the DVC properties in an attempt to fill the inventory and guarantee more return trips and pass purchases while the economy is waiting to recover.

If this happens, which would increase the guaranteed WDW population, you might see more of the seasonal offerings that really make DL speacial and looking different year-round.

Right now, the DVC price point is too expensive for many, as evidenced by the large market for points resale at the moment. People don't want to buy in and they don't want to pay fees on their unused points.

Take down the price point, and DIsney will make all the money that they lsoe on a simple points reslae and gain a customer for the next 20 years.

 

[WDWFigment]

The real question is whether Disney will drop entry prices on the DVC properties in an attempt to fill the inventory and guarantee more return trips and pass purchases while the economy is waiting to recover.

If this happens, which would increase the guaranteed WDW population, you might see more of the seasonal offerings that really make DL speacial and looking different year-round.

Right now, the DVC price point is too expensive for many, as evidenced by the large market for points resale at the moment. People don't want to buy in and they don't want to pay fees on their unused points.

Take down the price point, and DIsney will make all the money that they lsoe on a simple points reslae and gain a customer for the next 20 years.

To some extent, they have started to drop prices. Right now, you can buy Saratoga points for $91/point, which is much lower than the $112/point they were selling SSR for not long ago. However, that still is a far cry from some of the mid $60/point resale prices. All said, I think lowering prices is only a short-term solution.

At some point the economy is going to recover. At that time, people will have the money to spend, but they (hopefully) will remember the disastrous results of spending money uncontrollably, and will be more conscientious of how they spend their money. With exercising more restraint and control in their finances, people will want better value (maybe this is giving people too much credit). One of the ways Disney can offer better value is to follow the DL model so that WDW and DVC can market the ever-changing nature of the Parks.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Agreed! Nightastic could have easily come over to WDW as well. Goodness knows the parks could use something new.


But of course if we got it, it would be a hard ticketed event.

 

[drew81]

I am all for it! I would like WDW's Fantasmic to get some of DL's Fantasmic upgrades. Mainly the new dragon and digital projectors. Where is Barnette Ricci when you need her?

 

[krankenstein]

I wish it would've. They could have easily made some changes without much effort. Since PPP aren't happening, why not offer MMM on the weekends at MK? Since Fantasmic is closed some, why not plus it slowly? Why not add a new tag onto the end of ROE? It seems like a no brainer, but I doubt it will happen.

Numbers do not lag at WDW like they do at DL. DL summer attendance numbers are, typically, lower than some days during the "slower" season because of seasonal AP holders in Cali. Unfortunately, I doubt it will ever happen in Florida because TDO doesn't need the attendance numbers to be bumped up in the summer.

 

[WDWFigment]

Numbers do not lag at WDW like they do at DL. DL summer attendance numbers are, typically, lower than some days during the "slower" season because of seasonal AP holders in Cali. Unfortunately, I doubt it will ever happen in Florida because TDO doesn't need the attendance numbers to be bumped up in the summer.

The thing is, Summer Nightastic is just one example of DL offering "little incentives" to get locals into the parks. Regardless of attendance numbers, at some point WDW will have to start catering more to DVC members, or they risk those members becoming disenchanted with the product, and selling their memberships. If those members stop coming, that's a lot of empty DVC rooms. I think the current buy 4, get 3 promotion illustrates just how much Disney wants to avoid having empty rooms on property, even if it means lower profit.

 

[krankenstein]

The thing is, Summer Nightastic is just one example of DL offering "little incentives" to get locals into the parks. Regardless of attendance numbers, at some point WDW will have to start catering more to DVC members, or they risk those members becoming disenchanted with the product, and selling their memberships. If those members stop coming, that's a lot of empty DVC rooms. I think the current buy 4, get 3 promotion illustrates just how much Disney wants to avoid having empty rooms on property, even if it means lower profit.

I'm not DVC, but I visited a bunch. I agree that it would be nice for them to offer little things for those of use that visit the parks 4 to 5 times a year. However, I don't see it happening. :shrug:

 

[PaisleyMF]

Is as simple as "If ain't broken, don't fix it" kinda thing. What they see is people will come and come and will be the same attraction, same park different person.

Wen TDO realize that WDW is also the play ground of thousands of AP and locals then they may do something to keep them also coming.

Now I so see Summer Nightastic! working over Disneyland but not over Orlando, Maybe as Spring Magic? But not as a hard ticket. Maybe get Magic Music and Mayhem fireworks, and loan MSEP but thats just MK...

 

[SirGoofy]

Well let's break it down by Nightastic!'s attractions.

Magical
-The only reason Magical exists is because Remember! had some problems and was too expensive.

Pixie Hollow
-Well, TDO cheaped out and didn't give us the elaborately themed Pixie Hollow, so we can't get those enhancements

Updated MSEP
-Spectro has been around for 20 years without an upgrade, and I doubt they'd be shellin out the money now.

Updated Fantasmic!
-Another attraction that hasn't been updated since its opened. Not likely that they would do it now, especially now that they've cut the show back.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Well let's break it down by Nightastic!'s attractions.

Magical
-The only reason Magical exists is because Remember! had some problems and was too expensive.

Pixie Hollow
-Well, TDO cheaped out and didn't give us the elaborately themed Pixie Hollow, so we can't get those enhancements

Updated MSEP
-Spectro has been around for 20 years without an upgrade, and I doubt they'd be shellin out the money now.

Updated Fantasmic!
-Another attraction that hasn't been updated since its opened. Not likely that they would do it now, especially now that they've cut the show back.

*sigh*

Once again...Can we PLEASE have DL Park Ops? With them...I really think all our problems would be solved.

 

[magicmaya]

I saw magical yesterday. There was no dumbo

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I think it all comes down to the way WDW is treated now by marketing and how the place is positioned to the general public.

In their mind, WDW is the Disneyland in Florida where little Britney can hug Snow White by the castle. The old ideas of WDW begin "the vacation kingdom of the world" are dead. Even when much less existed, there was still a push to position the place as a destination where one could play golf, camp, stay at elaborate resorts, see dinner shows, go sailing and fishing, horseback riding etc. It wasn't just the same as Disneyland in California.

What's sad is that as the complaex has expanded in offerings, it's become more narrow minded in it's advertising. The "Disney Parks" brand completely plays into public ignorance about the difference between the two "Disneylands" and doesn't work for a place that wants to encourage people to come back as APs, DVC owners or even locals. DVC isn't even advertised at all on TV or in newspapers as part of promotions, just the same generic images of the castle and whatever nonsensicle celebration is goign on.

While Disney may offer a legit promotion like renting golf clubs for free to resort guests, how many ads to you see for that? How many people know you can go pairasailing at WDW or that there's a dance club on Boardwalk? These are the kinds of things to entice people to come back, especially an older crowd not interested in character dining but a more recreational/active environment to get a timeshare at (and has the money to pay for it).

Seasonal promotions still exist like the hard ticket parties, FWF, FGF, SWW etc. but AK and MK do not have free offerings added to the daily events at the park because the majority of the crowds seem happy with what they got. I would be annoyed as a DVC member if I joined in 1999 and found out that 10 years later it's still the same nighttime show at Epcot and MGM/DHS. Even if it works now, is it still a good idea to encourage repeat visitors while offering the same stuff in the parks? Seasonal summer offerings seam to one the one thing Disney doesn't do at all, and the Easter parade was axed because people come anyway apparently. I think that's what it all comes down to, people will come even if you do nothing because it's summer, but why not try and make even more people come? Wouldn't the DVC/AP/Local crowd like these kinds of things like Nightastic? You're trying to build that crowd, but ignore them at the same time.

I have no idea how on topic this post is, but I just find it odd how what Disney wants you to get and what they show you can get are two different things.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I think it all comes down to the way WDW is treated now by marketing and how the place is positioned to the general public.

In their mind, WDW is the Disneyland in Florida where little Britney can hug Snow White by the castle. The old ideas of WDW begin "the vacation kingdom of the world" are dead. Even when much less existed, there was still a push to position the place as a destination where one could play golf, camp, stay at elaborate resorts, see dinner shows, go sailing and fishing, horseback riding etc. It wasn't just the same as Disneyland in California.

What's sad is that as the complaex has expanded in offerings, it's become more narrow minded in it's advertising. The "Disney Parks" brand completely plays into public ignorance about the difference between the two "Disneylands" and doesn't work for a place that wants to encourage people to come back as APs, DVC owners or even locals. DVC isn't even advertised at all on TV or in newspapers as part of promotions, just the same generic images of the castle and whatever nonsensicle celebration is goign on.

While Disney may offer a legit promotion like renting golf clubs for free to resort guests, how many ads to you see for that? How many people know you can go pairasailing at WDW or that there's a dance club on Boardwalk? These are the kinds of things to entice people to come back, especially an older crowd not interested in character dining but a more recreational/active environment to get a timeshare at (and has the money to pay for it).

Seasonal promotions still exist like the hard ticket parties, FWF, FGF, SWW etc. but AK and MK do not have free offerings added to the daily events at the park because the majority of the crowds seem happy with what they got. I would be annoyed as a DVC member if I joined in 1999 and found out that 10 years later it's still the same nighttime show at Epcot and MGM/DHS. Even if it works now, is it still a good idea to encourage repeat visitors while offering the same stuff in the parks? Seasonal summer offerings seam to one the one thing Disney doesn't do at all, and the Easter parade was axed because people come anyway apparently. I think that's what it all comes down to, people will come even if you do nothing because it's summer, but why not try and make even more people come? Wouldn't the DVC/AP/Local crowd like these kinds of things like Nightastic? You're trying to build that crowd, but ignore them at the same time.

I have no idea how on topic this post is, but I just find it how what Disney wants you to get and what they odd show you can get are two different things.

So well said.

It's the homogenization of WDW again...it's the marketing...It's the entitlement factor that each guests "needs".:shrug:

I think they need to look past it. It might take a while, but it's going to get old.

I saw magical yesterday. There was no dumbo

B Mode. Not good.:lookaroun

 

[disney4life2008]

I am all for it! I would like WDW's Fantasmic to get some of DL's Fantasmic upgrades. Mainly the new dragon and digital projectors. Where is Barnette Ricci when you need her?

I want those changes too - but PLUS, the boat used in DL. The WDW boat is boaring and never has a lot of characters. The DL is packed and I like there choregoraphed number better than WDW.

 

[disney4life2008]

I just watched the new MSEP - I have to say, it almost puts Spectromagic to shame. Though, Spectromagic is number 1 because of the music.

 

[WDWFigment]

Well let's break it down by Nightastic!'s attractions.

Magical
-The only reason Magical exists is because Remember! had some problems and was too expensive.

Pixie Hollow
-Well, TDO cheaped out and didn't give us the elaborately themed Pixie Hollow, so we can't get those enhancements

Updated MSEP
-Spectro has been around for 20 years without an upgrade, and I doubt they'd be shellin out the money now.

Updated Fantasmic!
-Another attraction that hasn't been updated since its opened. Not likely that they would do it now, especially now that they've cut the show back.

The precise upgrades DL received during Summer Nightastic are irrelevant. What I am stating is that WDW shouldn't be ignoring its DVC population, which is analogous to California's Annual Passholder population. Regardless of the substantive nature of these additions, they are further little "plussings" that WDW isn't getting. WDW should be getting things like this, as it has an incentive to keep DVC members happy, and to grow DVC members.

I think it all comes down to the way WDW is treated now by marketing and how the place is positioned to the general public.

In their mind, WDW is the Disneyland in Florida where little Britney can hug Snow White by the castle. The old ideas of WDW begin "the vacation kingdom of the world" are dead. Even when much less existed, there was still a push to position the place as a destination where one could play golf, camp, stay at elaborate resorts, see dinner shows, go sailing and fishing, horseback riding etc. It wasn't just the same as Disneyland in California.

What's sad is that as the complaex has expanded in offerings, it's become more narrow minded in it's advertising. The "Disney Parks" brand completely plays into public ignorance about the difference between the two "Disneylands" and doesn't work for a place that wants to encourage people to come back as APs, DVC owners or even locals. DVC isn't even advertised at all on TV or in newspapers as part of promotions, just the same generic images of the castle and whatever nonsensicle celebration is goign on.

While Disney may offer a legit promotion like renting golf clubs for free to resort guests, how many ads to you see for that? How many people know you can go pairasailing at WDW or that there's a dance club on Boardwalk? These are the kinds of things to entice people to come back, especially an older crowd not interested in character dining but a more recreational/active environment to get a timeshare at (and has the money to pay for it).

Seasonal promotions still exist like the hard ticket parties, FWF, FGF, SWW etc. but AK and MK do not have free offerings added to the daily events at the park because the majority of the crowds seem happy with what they got. I would be annoyed as a DVC member if I joined in 1999 and found out that 10 years later it's still the same nighttime show at Epcot and MGM/DHS. Even if it works now, is it still a good idea to encourage repeat visitors while offering the same stuff in the parks? Seasonal summer offerings seam to one the one thing Disney doesn't do at all, and the Easter parade was axed because people come anyway apparently. I think that's what it all comes down to, people will come even if you do nothing because it's summer, but why not try and make even more people come? Wouldn't the DVC/AP/Local crowd like these kinds of things like Nightastic? You're trying to build that crowd, but ignore them at the same time.

I have no idea how on topic this post is, but I just find it odd how what Disney wants you to get and what they show you can get are two different things.

This post is completely on topic; this is exactly what I mean. I think DVC/WDW, and even Disney in general, needs to rethink some of its marketing strategies. I'm not one of those cynical individuals around here who thinks they should not be marketing, I think marketing serves an important function, but why market such a unique and diverse product under a cohesive and bland marketing strategy? There are instances where companies should use cohesive marketing strategies, I realize, I just don't think theme parks separated by vast differences are one such instance. Further, you need something substantive to back up your marketing, otherwise it's just fluff. Over time, people do manage to recognize that.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

What's sad is that you don't see any ads for DVC until you get to Orlando Intl. Airport, by that time people have already paid for their Howard Johnston room to go to Disneyland Florida, booked thier Mickey's Chef meal etc. Why does Disney think that an uneducated, dehydrated and exhausted tourist will care to see a timeshare presenation while they are trying to make the most of thier vacation time as possible?

At home is where they have the time to educate themselves and be enticed by the concept of joing DVC, not while there kid is complaining for another ice cream.

And just what is DVC anyway, and why is it "the best kept Disney secret"? It's very name does not imply a timeshare ownership, but some travel rewards credit card instead.

Another thing I have a hard time believing is that BLT is not selling because of the economy. I know that sounds weird, but even in these times there are certainly people with the dough to pay for that kind of play (ever hear of "the rich get richer..."?), but is awareness begin brought up to them? Is there an ad for BLT in say, GQ magazine* or some other trendy, high end outlet?

Another problem with the generic ads is that it dumbs down the image of the place in the eyes of the high-brow crowd. For the middle-class groups the ads say to them "Disney World, yup we could go there" but to another group it may say "Oh, Disney World, ya...kiddie stuff". Playing up WDW as a more, upscale, yet fun, destination could appeal to multiple demographics on a broader scale while better showing off the place it truly is (yes you can take your picture with Goofy, but there's an AAA 5 diamond restaurant there too).

*I think there are WDW ads, but do they sell the idea of DVC? I'm not sure as I don't read that magazine, but you get the idea.

 

[WDWFigment]

What's sad is that you don't see any ads for DVC until you get to Orlando Intl. Airport, by that time people have already paid for their Howard Johnston room to go to Disneyland Florida, booked thier Mickey's Chef meal etc. Why does Disney think that an uneducated, dehydrated and exhausted tourist will care to see a timeshare presenation while they are trying to make the most of thier vacation time as possible?

At home is where they have the time to educate themselves and be enticed by the concept of joing DVC, not while there kid is complaining for another ice cream.

And just what is DVC anyway, and why is it "the best kept Disney secret"? It's very name does not imply a timeshare ownership, but some travel rewards credit card instead.

Another thing I have a hard time believing is that BLT is not selling because of the economy. I know that sounds weird, but even in these times there are certainly people with the dough to pay for that kind of play (ever hear of "the rich get richer..."?), but is awareness begin brought up to them? Is there an ad for BLT in say, GQ magazine* or some other trendy, high end outlet?

Another problem with the generic ads is that it dumbs down the image of the place in the eyes of the high-brow crowd. For the middle-class groups the ads say to them "Disney World, yup we could go there" but to another group it may say "Oh, Disney World, ya...kiddie stuff". Playing up WDW as a more, upscale, yet fun, destination could appeal to multiple demographics on a broader scale while better showing off the place it truly is (yes you can take your picture with Goofy, but there's an AAA 5 diamond restaurant there too).

*I think there are WDW ads, but do they sell the idea of DVC? I'm not sure as I don't read that magazine, but you get the idea.

I agree with your initial premise, but I think it might be taking it a bit too far to suggest that DVC should be advertising in GQ or similar affluent magazines. Because of the perception that WDW has among such a crowd, I think it would be a waste of advertising dollars to put ads in GQ. First, as you suggest, I think it would be wise if Disney created targeted advertising in such publications to change the perceptions. Perhaps a retro-looking “Vacation Kingdom of the World” ad with a collage of images—golfing, parasailing, the luau, etc., (I’m pretty sure the old WDW books have really similar collages in their front areas. Maybe they could just take one of those). I think that would catch people’s attention and pique curiosity. Certainly it’s not the Walt Disney World people expect, so maybe they would do some research.

As for BLT sales, the reason might very well be that it is facing competition from so many other properties within WDW right now. Both AKV and BLT are very unique (BLT with its proximity to MK; AKV with the animals) so they could be cannibalizing one another’s sales. In any case, I don’t think the rich are getting richer right now. The financial markets are causing a lot of portfolios to shrink, and there is no wealth being created. The markets are being corrected after periods of over-extension; excepting some anomalies, the rich are capitalizing on anything at the expense of the poor.

On topic, though, I agree with just about everything you’re saying. A lot of people around here wince at the idea of Disney’s “timeshare arm” expanding, but I think that is one of the best things for the sake of the long-term quality of the parks. It “keeps Disney honest” in preventing them from making quality cuts that the “once in a lifetime” guest wouldn’t notice. I think the current state of the DVC markets will wake up some in WDW* who may think that DVC members are a captive audience. They surely are not.

*Throughout this, I’ve “failed” to distinguish between WDW management and DVC management. For practical purposes, I think DVC is a WDW operation, with the success or failure of DVC riding heavily on WDW. That is where most of the properties are located, and those properties are the most successful (I think the huge price cuts to the GCV demonstrate that, with DL’s close proximity to other hotels and timeshares, DVC does not have the same allure off WDW property).