Where are the monorail easements?

[Disone]

And here is just one of the many reasons that you will never see a Monorail expansion and why it has been off the table since shortly after EPCOT opened.

View attachment 141681
June 26, 1985

Oh thats not the reason. No one died in that fire. People of have died on Big Thunder. And yet Disney still builds coasters and still enhances Big Thunder as a marque attraction. The current bus fleet has has way more accidents, and fires, then the monorails.

I know the easements/right of ways were still present five years ago. I was pretty surprised that they were still on a master plan as an option, because like must I would have assumed Disney gave thoses up long time ago.

We all know the argument, it's too expensive, 100 mile per mile.... which probably would not be the case for Disney who already has the land and the right of was established. So of course the argument is invalid. Pluse it's not like in 1971 and 1982 Monorail was this dirty cheap option. It was expensive then too, but it was done because it was part of the Disney experience.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, I'm not looking for old plans I'm looking for easements, such as those that went through the SSR. Where does it run through the SSR exactly? Where are the rest in the rest of the property?

Old plans would likely follow any easements by if you want to know you should be the one doing to work searching property records.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Oh thats not the reason. No one died in that fire. People of have died on Big Thunder. And yet Disney still builds coasters and still enhances Big Thunder as a marque attraction. The current bus fleet has has way more accidents, and fires, then the monorails.

I know the easements/right of ways were still present five years ago. I was pretty surprised that they were still on a master plan as an option, because like must I would have assumed Disney gave thoses up long time ago.

We all know the argument, it's too expensive, 100 mile per mile.... which probably would not be the case for Disney who already has the land and the right of was established. So of course the argument is invalid. Pluse it's not like in 1971 and 1982 Monorail was this dirty cheap option. It was expensive then too, but it was done because it was part of the Disney experience.

The difference is that someone could have easily died and can you imagine what would have happened if that fire had occurred as they were leaving or entering the Contemporary some 50 or more feet above the ground level? Don't you think that the lawyers aren't still having nightmares about that? You are correct, the Monorails are still a part of the Disney Experience and that is why, what we have is still there. It isn't so much that any of the things can have bad things happen to them, it is more about the accessibility of those things.

As for the easements, why would they have given them up, it's their property, if at any time they want to change it they can, but, why bother. Also might be useful for light rail, but, I don't see that coming anytime soon either. The highway in the sky automatically becomes problematic if something goes wrong. Buses you have a chance to walk off onto solid ground, not so with a Monorail. The big thing is that WDW has it's token Monorails, it doesn't need anymore to fulfill that obligation. I believe that 100mil. per mile (if that is what it is now) is considering they already have the land, so it is very valid. Just because there are maps from the past showing it, does not mean that it is in anyway feasible or even slightly in anyone's mind at the moment. Well, other then Peter, but, I think he is thinking more about light rail now.

 

[marni1971]

And here is just one of the many reasons that you will never see a Monorail expansion and why it has been off the table since shortly after EPCOT opened.

Nope. Expansion was discussed actively into the mid 90s at least.

 

[danlb_2000]

I know there are monorail easements all over the resort, but I've never seen any shown on a map. Where are the easements exactly and is there a map?

There is some information in this document about a easement on the Swan and Dolphin property for a monorail station..

http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/downloads/6191501.pdf?id=DOCC6191501.A0&parent=DOCC6191501

 

[EOD K9]

one more:
View attachment 141672

Is this DTD/SSR?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is this DTD/SSR?

Yes.

 

[EOD K9]

Yes.

Thanks

 

[Progress.City]

Old plans would likely follow any easements by if you want to know you should be the one doing to work searching property records.

It doesn't show on the RDIC documents. Old plans won't necessarily follow because the easements are like road easements. Just because a road has easements for ten lanes doesn't mean they will ever build ten lanes, for example. The easements just show what is possible and the options they have to route for in the future, if they ever get around to it.

Also, something else may take its place. I don't think it has to be monorail on that right of way, but legally I could be wrong.

 

[marni1971]

Peter, Peter......

 

[Progress.City]

The difference is that someone could have easily died and can you imagine what would have happened if that fire had occurred as they were leaving or entering the Contemporary some 50 or more feet above the ground level? Don't you think that the lawyers aren't still having nightmares about that? You are correct, the Monorails are still a part of the Disney Experience and that is why, what we have is still there. It isn't so much that any of the things can have bad things happen to them, it is more about the accessibility of those things.

As for the easements, why would they have given them up, it's their property, if at any time they want to change it they can, but, why bother. Also might be useful for light rail, but, I don't see that coming anytime soon either. The highway in the sky automatically becomes problematic if something goes wrong. Buses you have a chance to walk off onto solid ground, not so with a Monorail. The big thing is that WDW has it's token Monorails, it doesn't need anymore to fulfill that obligation. I believe that 100mil. per mile (if that is what it is now) is considering they already have the land, so it is very valid. Just because there are maps from the past showing it, does not mean that it is in anyway feasible or even slightly in anyone's mind at the moment. Well, other then Peter, but, I think he is thinking more about light rail now.

Yeah, I was in light rail heaven during my recent trip to Israel. They have one, built at street level, in Jerusalem and they are currently building one underground in Tel Aviv. The one in Jerusalem is cool because it runs right through a street that used to be a blighted area but, thanks to light rail, is now a bustling and vibrant main pedestrian shopping district.

But I was sold on light rail before that when I got to ride it on my 2014 trip to Cali on systems in Long Beach, LA, and San Juan.

Here, in Miami, they have plans to build a $500 million light rail system from Government Center in Downtown Miami (where there will be connections to All Abord Florida to Orlando, Metrorail, and the downtown Metromover people mover system), with a stop at downtown's Bayfront Park, passing by bridge over the water and east to Washington Avenue at Miami Beach, and then following it north to the Miami Beach Convention Center. They are having problems getting those plans to the construction phase. It will happen, if the politicians ever get their acts together.

You know what would be really cool? Imagine riding something that uses Test Track / Radiation Springs Racer technology as like a PRT system throughout the property? Now, that would be awesome!!!!

EDIT - And Martin @marni1971 (hello) can tell the success story of light rail in his home turf in England.

EDIT 2 - I forgot to mention that they are currently building a city-wide fully elevated automated light rail on the island of Honolulu. This could be used as an example of how light rail can also be elevated.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Nope. Expansion was discussed actively into the mid 90s at least.

Really? I stand corrected, but, I cannot help but think that being discussed actively and being discussed with a reasonable degree of possibility. I can imagine it being discussed when they had to upgrade the bus fleet to reach AK, but, I can't see it not being ruled out very quickly. I could be wrong, but, there are way more reasons to not have an extended Monorail then to have one.

 

[Progress.City]

Really? I stand corrected, but, I cannot help but think that being discussed actively and being discussed with a reasonable degree of possibility. I can imagine it being discussed when they had to upgrade the bus fleet to reach AK, but, I can't see it not being ruled out very quickly. I could be wrong, but, there are way more reasons to not have an extended Monorail then to have one.

It was discussed on many occasions that I know of. It was not only discussed but got into various stages of development. The ones I know of are (all dates are approximate) -

1982 - EPCOT monorail spur to WDW Village. This is what started my whole fascination because, as a child of 13, I walked into the planning room for the project in a backstage section of Communicore at EPCOT, where they had huge plasterboards mapping the project. In recent years, I found pictures of these boards on an eBay auction. I've saved them, if anyone wants to see them. As part of my "proof", I also have a rendering of Horizons (which was under construction at this time) that shows the spur in the backdrop. The infamous "buried footer" is the only physical component of that was actually built. Along with the spur, a new resort at WDW was also planned. I have an image of a postcard that was published during this period by Disney that mentions both the unbuilt resort and monorail spur. I also have a copy of an EPCOT Center engineering blue print which show the WDW Village spur incorporated into its design. I've read elsewhere but cannot find any documented confirmation that the EPCOT monorail station was designed to handle a second platform, presumably for the Village spur.

Post 1989 - At least one EPCOT monorail spur project was under discussion, but this would would spur from the west side of SSE instead of the east side (as was the case of the 1982 project). This spur was intended to serve the Disney Boardwalk and terminate at Hollywood Studios.

Circa 1990's - A property-wide light rail system was in the planning with multiple lines. The system had completed engineering and environmental impact studies.

 

[Hakunamatata]

You know what would be really cool? Imagine riding something that uses Test Track / Radiation Springs Racer technology as like a PRT system throughout the property? Now, that would be awesome!!!!.

Radiation Springs technology. What the hell?

 

[Progress.City]

Radiation Springs technology. What the hell?

For those with lack of imagination or those who have never rode RSR, it is the same technology as TT. So, just imagine taking a vehicle similar to TT but with higher capacity and faster to a WDW resort you could be staying at. Why not?

Think about that next time you ride it. I think about that every time I'm riding it. I can imagine nothing cooler than that!

 

[Hakunamatata]

For those with lack of imagination or those who have never rode RSR, it is the same technology as TT. So, just imagine taking a vehicle similar to TT but with higher capacity and faster to a WDW resort you could be staying at. Why not?

Think about that next time you ride it. I think about that every time I'm riding it. I can imagine nothing cooler than that!

But isn't radiation exposure dangerous?

 

[ProfSavage]

But isn't radiation exposure dangerous?

Only in large doses...

 

[unkadug]

Only in large doses...

or lots of teeny weeny doses...

 

[Joe]

1982 - EPCOT monorail spur to WDW Village. This is what started my whole fascination because, as a child of 13,

Peter, you were born in 1969 ? At Woodstock ? Any relation to Joe Cocker ?

 

[Progress.City]

Peter, you were born in 1969 ? At Woodstock ? Any relation to Joe Cocker ?

No, after Woodstock. Who is Joe Cocker?

But I can confirm that EPCOT Center was a very different, exciting place back then.

EDIT - As I said, dates are appropriate. I might have been 12, or it could have been 1983. It was shortly after it opened.

Horizons was under construction, and I remember there was an executive group showing people (all dressed in business attire) the construction site for Horizons. I remember overhearing the Disney executive telling the group enthusiastically that Horizons will be the first Disney ride where guests would be able choose their own ending.

Also, I remember signs of what's to come every where - Tron Arcade (within Communicore) with art rending showing people getting sucked inside a video game, Health (between The Land and the site for Seas) with art rendering of an Omni mover dark ride through the human body, Living Seas with art rendering of a special effects laden dark ride with storm elements, Equatorial Africa with art rendering showing animals, Space with art rendering showing a walk through of a space station for its queue and an Omni mover ride, an Israel pavilion, and a Spain pavilion. Between all that we were promised back then, nothing but Horizons materialized the way they envisioned.